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Being able to see who is the best bounty hunter in the campaign would be sweet, or who is the "master" crafter etc.

 

The world still needs a story tho, it cant just be "hop in this campaign, do what ever is easiest to get the most points, win/repeat" that is a boring, lobby game that has no meaning and will die very quickly

 

Yeah to that: that is unrelated. There can be still a narrative (probably more heroic stories) with a leader board, a goal to strive for, a rival (the one above you or in th #1 spot) in clear sight.

 

Without a leaderboard how can you determine the ultimate best at his craft? Just take the top 10 players and flip a coin? A leaderboard would make that clear and back this up. Your point of "hop in this campaign, do what ever is easiest to get the most points, win/repeat" is incredibly very narrowminded and you should think in a more creative way what is possible. Even if you don't want to think of more win conditions then collecting abitrary points you should consider that basicly everything boils down to acquiring some kind of points.

 

I AM ME!
I love you all.

 

 

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(FYI: JTodd gave me permission to post this as, at the time of these communications, ACE required me to sign an NDA) The recent founders update, “Innovation is Risky” jogged a memory of when I first

I'm absolutely fine to try different win conditions !  "Gain-the-most-points-in-X-minutes" IS a win condition, and one that is used quite often in sports, but yes, it's relatively simplistic.  The ben

Sometimes campaigns get stagnant early or stay fun for much longer than anyone thought possible. In light of this, it pays to have a set of triggers the players can pull to advance to the next season,

Yeah to that: that is unrelated. There can be still a narrative (probably more heroic stories) with a leader board, a goal to strive for, a rival (the one above you or in th #1 spot) in clear sight.

 

Without a leaderboard how can you determine the ultimate best at his craft? Just take the top 10 players and flip a coin? A leaderboard would make that clear and back this up. Your point of "hop in this campaign, do what ever is easiest to get the most points, win/repeat" is incredibly very narrowminded and you should think in a more creative way what is possible. Even if you don't want to think of more win conditions then collecting abitrary points you should consider that basicly everything boils down to acquiring some kind of points.

 

The reason no leader-board is more appealing to me is because individualized leader-boards impose a particular set of incentives and measures of success by attempting to measure things that (1) not everyone agrees with and/or (2) cannot be measured directly.  The game is already hierarchical in nature, we don't need to individualize the hierarchy to incentivize selfish play-styles in a game aimed at social players and guilds.  There are literally so many games that do this.  I always laugh when game companies give into the idea that they need to incorporate things that are successful in other games.  That mindset is not always conducive, especially in creative endeavors.  Certainly ACE should not reinvent the wheel or miss out on something useful, but they need to remain deliberate and diligently vet the ideas relative to the purpose of the game.  In my opinion, individual ranked leader-boards are not at all part of the purpose.  Fluid individual reputation cohering into a shared private and public guild reputation interacting with the political system on the CW and between CWs is what makes sense to me.  

 

tl;dr. Let the players figure out who is whom.  Let guilds compete to win.

Edited by mctan
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Without a leaderboard how can you determine the ultimate best at his craft?

 

I feel so old. Yeah, we have to have a leader board... its the way its always been, we cant possibly imagine a world without a list to tell us what to do and how to think. Games never existed before that.

 

/thefutureofgamingisdoomed

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Without a leaderboard how can you determine the ultimate best at his craft? Just take the top 10 players and flip a coin? A leaderboard would make that clear and back this up. [...]

 

Another question: with a leaderboard, how will the game determine the ultimate best crafter? Number of items crafted, highest passive training skills, highest quality of the items produced, highest number of clients, number of campaigns won? A combination of all this?  :P

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Great email and great reply. That said I don't agree and never have. I don't think they HAVE to reset. I think a reset is one of the solutions, its an easier but also more proven solution. I think it can be done the other way but it still requires developer intervention in varying degrees, which might be even harder for some players to accept than a hard reset. Examples;

 

#1. Battle Fatigue ripped from SWG (dominating can start to wear you out)

#2. Seasons getting more extreme/less extreme as they keep rotating (area specific-the dominate teams main area begins to get very harsh, the losing teams little area begins to become more mild)

#3. Monsters growing stronger/weaker as seasons keep rotating (area specific)

#4. Resources depleating/increasing faster/slower (area specific)

#5. Disease (being dominant takes a lot of energy! Start to get wore out and you might get sick!)

#6. The hunger (whatever the devs want it to do hehe. Story wise it probably gets bored with 1 sided domination as it lacks "fresh food" so it does things bad things. Maybe it just begins to crave the "strong"?

#7. Mercenaries-the last ditch effort (either Devs or Players can pay something to bring in X amount of skilled players/guilds to help even things out)

 

I also think permanence is one of the things that helps create meaning through a real to life "history" of the game. EVE is the best example but they also have exclusive but even more impressive the shared universe advantage.

Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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wow op u took a big risk with a huge wall of text

 

it didnt pay off

 

can u like say what u want 2 say

 

in like

 

10 words or less

 

thanks in advace

The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
Read more at brainyquote.com/search_results.html#KTJ4dHyeiltlKOTM.99

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I'm absolutely fine to try different win conditions !  "Gain-the-most-points-in-X-minutes" IS a win condition, and one that is used quite often in sports, but yes, it's relatively simplistic.  The benefit of that is that it's less risky (and easier to conceptualize, implement and explain).

 

I think I've said it before, but I don't look at Crowfall in terms of the traditional MMO development cycle, where you build the game, launch it and then put out a few content updates every year to try and keep the community happy.

 

I see our initial release as the foundation that we need to start experimenting.  My goal is to make a strong enough foundation that it can be used for years of experimentation.  That's the "secret sauce" of our our design architecture; the campaigns are tied together, but isolated enough to allow us to try out radical ideas with a nice thick firewall to protect us from ideas that don't work.

 

We release with a first set of (arguably simplistic) campaign rules.  Keep it relaitvely simple at first, because it's always best to start with a simple, strong foundation.  We play it.  You play it.  We discuss what worked and what didn't.  We draft new ideas, pick a few, try them.  The ones that work are cloned (and mutated), the ones that didn't are killed.  It's a genetic approach to game design: create, clone, mutate, kill.  Again and again.  

 

MMOs can't normally do this, because you are "locked" in by your initial design and player expectations of consistency (i.e. players are making an investment and are very resistant to change).  In this case, we're tackled both of those issues from the beginning.

 

It's a shift in the way these games are made:

 

Treat the game as an ongoing service that will last for a decade, not a product that you fire and forget.  

Design for years of iteration and experimentation.  

Recognize and embrace that development process as part of the fun. 

Treat launch not as your end goal, but as just the beginning. 

 

Todd

ACE

J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

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Treat the game as an ongoing service that will last for a decade, not a product that you fire and forget.  

Design for years of iteration and experimentation.  

Recognize and embrace that development process as part of the fun. 

Treat launch is not as your end goal, but as just the beginning. 

 

Todd

ACE

 

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Every time he's in the videos they post man. Everytime.

 

Mixed Mark Ruffalo too, btw.

Edited by Kiro Elmarok

[TB] The Balance
Nation of Equilibrium

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  • 1 year later...
6 minutes ago, Gradishar said:

In light of Wes's recent passing...I think it appropriate to bump this thread. His insight was spot on. The Crowfall community lost a true champion to our cause. 

It is eerie to still see his name all over these forums and on our private forums as if he is still with us posting. :-(

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