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Combat - Comparisons and personal opinions.


Reider

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I really hate being the voice of reason and I don't appreciate it when you guys put me into that corner, but in the words of over-the-hill quarterback Aaron Rodgers, "RELAX".

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Let's put it this way, if their pre-alpha was just the keep itself and everyone just mindlessly slapping each other about, that would be par for the course for a pre-alpha.  We have so much more going on right now. 

 

Newer games have catered to and conditioned people towards shorter attention spans... You are expecting way too much from a pre-alpha... if you are bored right now go play a released game for a while.

 

Viking, I agree that this is pre-alpha and we have seen improvements and all of us hope/expect things to improve dramatically.  

 

That said, I'd like to see some of the concerns directly addressed.  For example, I'd like to have someone say "We hear the concerns and the plan is to work on animations/combat optimization in June"  or "we can't optimize combat until our shipment of green combat chickens arrives from Rangoon in May" or even "You guys are dorks and we've got this poorly made sockse...chill dudes...we'll make it look better than GW2 and Wow."     

 

I worry that some of this is the engine, that some of this is the physics, that animations are balky not because they aren't optimized but because they can't be optimized at this point because of the underlying engine, not because there is not enough manpower.  I'd like to see some experimentation with how combat works.  

 

tldr: Green Combat Chickens for the win.

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Viking, I agree that this is pre-alpha and we have seen improvements and all of us hope/expect things to improve dramatically.  

 

That said, I'd like to see some of the concerns directly addressed.  For example, I'd like to have someone say "We hear the concerns and the plan is to work on animations/combat optimization in June"  or "we can't optimize combat until our shipment of green combat chickens arrives from Rangoon in May" or even "You guys are dorks and we've got this poorly made sockse...chill dudes...we'll make it look better than GW2 and Wow."     

 

I worry that some of this is the engine, that some of this is the physics, that animations are balky not because they aren't optimized but because they can't be optimized at this point because of the underlying engine, not because there is not enough manpower.  I'd like to see some experimentation with how combat works.  

 

tldr: Green Combat Chickens for the win.

 

They put out a video in Dec that they were going to work on combat more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQttL0fEY3c

 

FYI, COMBAT is not in a Pre Alpha state. They even said in their video from Dec that they spent 24wks (aka 6 months) working on it. So please stop pretending that every thing will change because we have so much time. 8months from launch and based on whats happened since their Dec video, I'm not sure how much will change.

 

They are trying, and some of the changes they talk about in the video arent in the game yet. like momentum on attacks.

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They can easily polish it... things like increasing the speed of combat or the momentum or making less abilities rely on animation lock etc... all doable...

 

Anyway we were never going to get blade and soul type combat in a game that wants to encourage larger battles...  As long as it is action combat and has a respectable pace then the team fighting complexities will make up for it. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I don't think it's impossible to improve dramatically with relatively minor changes. The combat would look a hell of a lot more attractive to me if the animations were sped up, staggers/flinches were added, and a little bit more flexibility/freedom with combos was added. The only one of those three things I mentioned that seems like it might be difficult would be the combos thing.

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I think reducing the time between attacks and adding in momentum will make the game feel much better.

 

I really don't think the animations are slow. It's just the big pauses in between the combos/abilities are brutal.

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They can easily polish it... things like increasing the speed of combat or the momentum or making less abilities rely on animation lock etc... all doable...

 

 

Good combat in the style of TERA, Vindictus, and Black Desert is not something you "polish" at the end. You design combat animations, ability design, hitboxes, and all kinds of coding to make that all actually function without blowing up the servers and your computer, to work with the combat system you're aiming for. Games like that start from the ground up building a foundation for the combat they're planning to do.

 

If you want to change and "polish" combat at the end to make it something other than what it originally started with, you're going to end up with Wildstar combat which is perhaps one of the worst combat systems I have ever played (it was originally about 80% tab target before they switched course mid beta which is painfully evident in how shallow and poorly made socksty their combat is, and they continued to change it to be more actiony even months after launch). I would rather play tab target than Wildstar's version of action combat, and I hate tab target games.

 

I don't know if it's a tech issue, or a talent issue. I suspect it's the latter, in that the devs just don't know enough yet on how Korean games design such good combat systems and what details make them so good. Perhaps more research is required, or perhaps they do know and they're working on it. But a quality action combat system is not something you just tack on at the end. The entire game needs to be built for and balanced around it.

 

Edit: I think ArtCraft made the right choice by tackling combat early on, but don't discourage players from offering feedback on it. This is exactly when they need such feedback.

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