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courant101

Crucial features

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There were several features discussed about a year ago, some of them haven't got much attention since then. Examples:

  -large-scale battles

  -VR

  -realistic projectiles (real objects, ballistic trajectory, deflect/ricochet)

  -friendly fire

  -voxels (fully destructible world, procedurally generated towns and caves, tunnels, sieging from below)

  -hit location system (gloves, boots, torso, helmet)

  -continent sized maps / thousands of players per campaign

  -active training

  -combat pets

  -deep crafting system

  -thralls

 

I'm wondering which ones you guys think are the most important and have to make it into the game.

 

For me, it's the possibility to participate in large-scale battles with acceptable performances (read: not a slideshow).

 

I think that all the other features would be cool, but not absolutely necessary to make Crowfall a great game. What about you?

Edited by courant101

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It's hard to make a ranking really so I just categorize it as nessesary, would be nice and unnessesary

  -large-scale battles

  -VR

  -realistic projectiles (real objects, ballistic trajectory, deflect/ricochet)

  -friendly fire

  -voxels (fully destructible world, procedurally generated towns and caves, tunnels, sieging from below)

  -hit location system (gloves, boots, torso, helmet)

  -continent sized maps / thousands of players per campaign

  -active training

  -combat pets

  -deep crafting system

  -thralls

 

-large scale battle: really just meh. I like to fight in smaller groups anyway.

 

-VR: as it is is not really worth considering ( no idea why they put it in in the first place)

 

-Realistic projectiles and voxels: imo very important for fun and deep combat. The valocity (or physics w/e) right now serve a similiar concept as RNG in e.g. Hearthstone. It makes crazy stuff happen, you need to keep an additional factor in mind to consider and it spices up the game in general. I think voxels and Realistic projectiles serve the same purpose.

 

-Hit location: is too much work to put in and servers a similiar purpose as the above; to bring in another factor to play around. I of course wouldnt mind it, more depth is always awesome. But new players tend to be overwhelmed by too much depth. As the budget is so far I see not enough time and/or money to make a proper tutorial to teach the player. (even more so because there is apparently very little knowledge on how to acually make a tutorial in the industry)

 

-Continent and tounsands of players: are great so you have more content i.e. players to kill / space to explore. But Crowfall could (big could) work without.

 

- Active training: would be nice but I don't really care for that / have an interest in that.

 

-Combat pets: are a stretch goal and a standard in the industry. I don't need it by any means but I think for many people that could be potentially be a problem.

 

-Deep crafting: system(s) are incredibly important. As you can see in the Crafter Master Tier List there are quite a few people excited for it. Crafting is bascily dead right now, many came to Crowfall to have a proper crafting system; well it got also promoted enough with names like Ralph Koster.

 

-Thralls: I wasnt sure to mark it as bold or normal. Simply, I am not a trader but thinking about it, I am looking forward to strowling through markets and looking at gear. Of course the players themself could just idle there or have twinks standing there but I think that would be such a great thing to do. So we could without but a big could again.

 

I added some explanation onto it :3


 

I AM ME!
I love you all.

 

 

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I agree with you on most of the points made. However, large-scale battles (depending on how many players is considered "large-scale") seems really important since many design choices revolve around that: points of interest may attract large number of players, guilds/sub-guilds/alliances allow a huge number of players, some faction rulesets will probably encourage massive encounters (Chaos waging war on Order to keep the control of X location). From what I know of the game so far, getting decent frame rate at least with 80-100 players on screen is necessary.

 

Also, I'm not really a fan of fully destructible terrain or combat pets since I don't feel like it adds much to the gameplay while adding a big load on the engine. Pretty sure the tunnels would be really fun, exploring the caves, controlling a NPC pet, etc. but if it's detrimental to the core elements of the game then I wouldn't be too disappointed to make this sacrifice.

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Large scale battles is an obvious cornerstone to Crowfall's success. It is a must have feature. Any great sandbox will also have great crafting so a deep crafting system can only help grow and sustain online communities.

 

Those are my big two (but the destructible world is of obvious importance as well).

 

While I am immensely excited about VR as a genre on the horizon, I really have no care for it to be in Crowfall at this stage. I feel any worthwhile VR experience should be built from the ground up specifically for it as opposed to a possible add-on.  The first mmorpg built solely for a VR system will be undoubtedly amazing but we are not quite there yet.

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-VR: as it is is not really worth considering ( no idea why they put it in in the first place)

Unity supports Occulus, so thats probably why.

 

There were several features discussed about a year ago, some of them haven't got much attention since then. Examples:

  -large-scale battles

 

  -realistic projectiles

 

  -voxels

 

 

 

I really want to see voxels in game. That's what bought me into both EQN and CF. And I'm not really sure how deep crafting can be, granted the only crafting I've done in an MMO have been in Todd's W101 and GW2, so don't know much in the way of crafting systems.

Edited by coolster50

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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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There were several features discussed about a year ago, some of them haven't got much attention since then. Examples:

  -large-scale battles

  -VR

  -realistic projectiles (real objects, ballistic trajectory, deflect/ricochet)

  -friendly fire

  -voxels (fully destructible world, procedurally generated towns and caves, tunnels, sieging from below)

  -hit location system (gloves, boots, torso, helmet)

  -continent sized maps / thousands of players per campaign

  -active training

  -combat pets

  -deep crafting system

  -thralls

 

I'm wondering which ones you guys think are the most important and have to make it into the game.

 

For me, it's the possibility to participate in large-scale battles with acceptable performances (read: not a slideshow).

 

I think that all the other features would be cool, but not absolutely necessary to make Crowfall a great game. What about you?

 

For me it's fast, fluid and reactive combat. We're still not there yet (but it's getting better), and as far as I'm concerned, everything else can wait. Right now you get insane lag with only 20 people on the world map, imagine that with over a thousand players, and several 50v50 or higher fights going on at the same time. If they can't get the netcode/server stability/combat figured, none of that stuff on the list matters.

Edited by helix

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a /dance EMOTE must be had.

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

On a serious note: performance of the game under "heavy" load is THE key feature, everything else resting atop it IMO. Whatever "heavy" is going to mean in large scale engagements.

 

A) Asheron's Call 2 had faction Keeps. When Shadow attacked Order (or vice versa) world announce would occur, peeps would start porting to the keep for defense hoping it lasted long enough. Lag, lag, lag, really bad for everyone.

 

B.) LOTRO, The Ettenmoors: For all PvP in LOTRO was something of an oddball, only possible in the Ettenmoors zone with no other options, it had a really passionate and active PvP player-base for a while. Player supported Vent channels capable of huge numbers of players were available (one for the Freeps (Free Peoples) and one for the Creeps (Creatures) ), there were a few signature LEADERS who actually were. (Good Guild Leaders and Good Raid Leaders are, IMO, the two paragon examples of good gamers in an MMO - and rare).

 

Prime time would roll around and some of the "celebrity" Leaders would log in, two 20-man raids would forum up, and thus would begin long sessions of flowing back and forth over the fairly large Ettenmoors map. Almost like calvary maneuvers. Teams broken off for ambush points with the Raid parked slightly off from that, etc.

 

Vent active, but not mucked up garbled gerbil-kin squeaking. Everyone having fun.

 

EXCEPT FOR THE LAG LAG LAG. As with Turbine's other game, Asheron's Call 2, severe LAG server vs client killed the experience repeatedly.

 

Anyway:

 

Skills can be tweaked. Character run speeds and what have you can be tweaked. Even "combat mechanics" are a level up IMO (though certainly important).

 

Baseline infrastructure performance against whatever load ceiling, and then mechanisms to protect against exceeding whatever that threshold is are #1 IMO.

Edited by Bramble

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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Well i dont give a **** about any specific single feature, the whole composition of single features is what makes the melody in a game.

The thing is was most excited about, were the big open "living" worlds players could explore and try to find their luck in every new campaign.

But as alomst every game so far promised a big open living world and always lied to me, every single time, well i got honestly very big concerns that Crowfall will be able to deliver on that.

Closest to what I was able to accept as this was The Witcher 3 so far.

When the presentation of EverQuest Next took place I had for the first time the feeling that this project could really be able to deliver this big open living world, because they had ideas, concepts and knew why all the others failed and what they had to do to make it work finally. But well, through all the events which took playce i dont have hopes for EverQuest Next anymore, what is really really is upsetting me, because it really was this game project what was needed to finally make an end to the Dark Age of (Online) Gaming. They understood that only a really intelligent game with a really good AI could change things to the much better.

But well luckly Crowfall came up and Star Citizen is doing really greatly.


After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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For me, I'd agree with the OP that large-scale battles that can remain consistently stable is the most important element to make into the game. I'd also highly rank continent-sized maps to complement the large battles, and voxel destruction to improve the tactical level of combat. And because blowing things up is fun.

 

VR isn't too important and would require a lot of reworking of the current combat style, as is having locational damage. Combat pets would be fun, but not really too big of a deal for me.

 

Everything else on the OP's list I would rank somewhere in the middle: not deal-breakers if they aren't there, but that doesn't mean I don't want them to be in the game.


7111d4fea662ddcedc732a7b7c3ebe1e.png

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Battles, voxels and crafting were the original selling points. Problem is, the rest were pretty major things that I think in turn will postpone the game's release. As much as they wanted to act like the stretch goals were a piece of cake if they had the money, they are still pretty large features that frankly, should have been in the original plan. Don't be surprised if by December we have what could be the launch of the game, but due to them needing to add bears, tigers and wolves as pets, we won't see the game officially release until Summer 2017.

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Voxels, friendly fire and combat is why I backed the game...So far we have not seen any voxels, (hopefully coming in March) Combat sucks so far and it looks like they are backing away from friendly fire....

Edited by Nakawe

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There were several features discussed about a year ago, some of them haven't got much attention since then. Examples:

  -large-scale battles  - Should be middle to high tier priority... big battles are important but it's not what the majority of players will spend their time with in game.  We can't have big battles 24-7

 

  -VR - Really shouldn't matter for a pvp focused game where the mentality going in should be to maximize combat effectiveness.

 

  -realistic projectiles (real objects, ballistic trajectory, deflect/ricochet) - Middle to High tier priority, can really enhance the feel and technique required for skillful combat.

 

  -friendly fire - Middle to High tier priority, the tactics that become available when friendly fire is a thing are great, it also generally encourages a more intelligent competitive community.

 

  -voxels (fully destructible world, procedurally generated towns and caves, tunnels, sieging from below) - Should have been low priority, it actually works against the performance of large scale battles and to me doesn't actually do much for the game, though the procedurally generated stuff is cool, I don't think voxels are required for such things though.

 

  -hit location system (gloves, boots, torso, helmet) - Middle tier priority, it's cool and can add to combat tactics but due to how latency works and the pros and cons of action combat I don't think it is worth the effort.

 

 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I'm squarely in the "don't care about large-scale battles" camp. Years of playing Planetside has taught me that massive battles are overrated and the most fun fights are in the 12v12 range.

 

So from that list above, I would rank them in order from most necessary to least necessary as follows:

 

- Realistic Projectiles
- Hit Location System (at least headshots)
- Continent-sized Maps
- Voxels/Procedurally Generated Worlds
- Friendly Fire
- Deep Crafting System
- Large-Scale Battles
- Thralls
- Combat Pets
- Active Training
- VR
Edited by recatek

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Well i dont give a **** about any specific single feature, the whole composition of single features is what makes the melody in a game.

The thing is was most excited about, were the big open "living" worlds players could explore and try to find their luck in every new campaign.

But as alomst every game so far promised a big open living world and always lied to me, every single time, well i got honestly very big concerns that Crowfall will be able to deliver on that.

Closest to what I was able to accept as this was The Witcher 3 so far.

When the presentation of EverQuest Next took place I had for the first time the feeling that this project could really be able to deliver this big open living world, because they had ideas, concepts and knew why all the others failed and what they had to do to make it work finally. But well, through all the events which took playce i dont have hopes for EverQuest Next anymore, what is really really is upsetting me, because it really was this game project what was needed to finally make an end to the Dark Age of (Online) Gaming. They understood that only a really intelligent game with a really good AI could change things to the much better.

But well luckly Crowfall came up and Star Citizen is doing really greatly.

 

The closer I can think of, for a big open living world, would be Black Desert. I'm not sure if it meets your criteria, but from what I've seen on Youtube videos, the environment is pretty immersive, a lot of attention seems to have been put on little details and the graphics are stunning. I understand that it may be disappointing to search for something, believe we've finally found it and again realize that it's not the case. Soon we'll explore the perfect world.  ^_^

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   -large-scale battles  - Should be middle to high tier priority... big battles are important but it's not what the majority of players will spend their time with in game.  We can't have big battles 24-7

 

I agree that players will spend most of their time doing other activities than massive PvP. However, the game is either created in a way that supports this type of PvP (performance wise) or not. Crowfall is a Throne War simulator and I'm sure many players want real wars once in a while rather than being limited to medium skirmishes or 30 players GvG.

 
 

   -VR - Really shouldn't matter for a pvp focused game where the mentality going in should be to maximize combat effectiveness.

 

  -realistic projectiles (real objects, ballistic trajectory, deflect/ricochet) - Middle to High tier priority, can really enhance the feel and technique required for skillful combat.

 

  -friendly fire - Middle to High tier priority, the tactics that become available when friendly fire is a thing are great, it also generally encourages a more intelligent competitive community.

 

  -hit location system (gloves, boots, torso, helmet) - Middle tier priority, it's cool and can add to combat tactics but due to how latency works and the pros and cons of action combat I don't think it is worth the effort.

 

Agreed, I think pretty much the same thing about those items.

 

 

     -voxels (fully destructible world, procedurally generated towns and caves, tunnels, sieging from below) - Should have been low priority, it actually works against the performance of large scale battles and to me doesn't actually do much for the game, though the procedurally generated stuff is cool, I don't think voxels are required for such things though.

 

Yea, the benefits seem marginal compared to the negative impact on performances. That was one of the reasons many people pledged though, being able to dig tunnel and holes to trap players in, make walls collapse on enemies, create tunnels to siege a stronghold, make the ground explode, etc. So it would probably be a major disappointment for a lot of people.

 

We'll see when Siege Perilous begins if they've implemented voxels in the world and if it's used solely for structure destruction. 

Edited by courant101

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The closer I can think of, for a big open living world, would be Black Desert. I'm not sure if it meets your criteria, but from what I've seen on Youtube videos, the environment is pretty immersive, a lot of attention seems to have been put on little details and the graphics are stunning. I understand that it may be disappointing to search for something, believe we've finally found it and again realize that it's not the case. Soon we'll explore the perfect world.  ^_^

I like the idea of "immense" CWs, and I'm also in line with Urahara's feeling I think.

 

Clearly Crowfall is, for the most part, being designed around "group combat". Yet I don't think "solo" and small party activity should be arbitrarily ruled out "by design".

 

I suppose the best example in recent history I can give is Archeage: Great ideas . . . garbage implementation in several areas that was NOT resilient, easily "broken" in several areas, not the least of which were players intentionally able to break game play mechanics for others, supported by the game structure (for lack of a better way to put it).

 

In Archeage for example:

 

Dynamic: Tradeship running between continents.

Dynamic: Pirating of Tradeships making trade runs between continents.

Dynamic: Simply ganking / griefing of your own factions trade ships during Trade ship running (e.g. Green Pirating).

 

The first dynamic is outnumbered 2 to 1 first off. Secondly, the small ocean size in core trade running routes allowed the two pirating dynamics to too easily shut down the first dynamic. Easily choked due to limited space options.

 

** All three dynamics were encapsulated in A TOO SMALL WORLD AND SEA SIZE for all three to operate properly (IMO).

 

The small size of the game worlds / ocean ways / limited number of Trade Ports prohibited the three dynamics to operate if we assume a healthy population of players, with a healthy Trade Running Dynamic + Pirating Dynamic + Other (Green Pirating). All three operating, not any one killing the others off.

 

In ALL the passionate crying over "The Seas are DEAD Trion/XLG! Do something about it!", many players simply turn a blind eye to a basic thing: If we DID populate the oceans again with lots of players, say an event or contest, you'd be right back to square one problem again: The ocean size (specifically between continents + limited trade port points) would allow the equivalent of a Naval Blockade of Pirates no Merchant would be able to get through.

 

To me it felt like the game world was "theme parked" in size to force players to bump into each other more often.

 

It's not just about having a feature in the game. It's success or failure will rest as heavily on how any given feature is CALIBRATED. Of it's many problems, one of them is Archeage's ocean sizing is calibrated too small, and it's trade port points calibrated at too few.

 

Here in Crowfall:

 

I like the idea of CWs being (more) large, "living" worlds - though in the process of dying, and (less) a big Arena map with trees and rivers that, within short order, has no room for smaller teams on it, or even solo scouting and exploring and discovery.

 

You go solo you are alone, with all the risk that comes with it be it from PvE mobs or squads/battlegroups of opponents. But, IMO, the CW S I Z E should provide the room for all activities to take place.

 

What does this mean exactly? What's "large living worlds" versus "big Arena map", and what's the scale?

 

I don't know. Just presenting some open-ended thinking at a high level.

 

You've said "immense", so I hope that's the case.

 

/waves

Edited by Bramble

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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