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Helix

Alchemy/Food: Heal pots and more.

Alchemy, yay or nay?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. Should alchemy be in the game (hopefully at launch)

    • Yay, I need my purple drink.
      18
    • Nay, I smoke rocks.
      3


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Something I haven't see any talk about (from the devs at least), is the alchemy. With healing coming in small bursts and not being as available (a mistake IMO), alchemy could be another way to offer self sustain to archetypes that other wise would have to rely entirely on third party support in solo scenarios. I'm all about strategic choices, and alchemy / food would add another layer to that.

 

If alchemy WAS (or is) being introduced in to the game, how would you want a healing potion (or other potion types) to function? Complete front loaded? partially front loaded, with back end effects (short over time effects) or completely over time?

 

Either way, it's odd that devs haven't talked more about crafting (but specifically if there is going to alchemy in the game).

Edited by helix

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Sure, a decent healing potion would be expected. And other potions as well.

 

AD&D tabletop had a rule keeping players from mixing potions or taking them too soon in succession.

If you did, they would backfire. I had a table with potential backfires ranging from no problem, through no effect on the 2nd potion, through explosion (with back-end effects if you mixed them in your belly)!

Edited by chancellor

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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They talk about an alchemist rune stone in the character advancement FAQ.

 

I'd imagine they would stay way from chain chugging potions and stick with pool adjustments.  Drink this potion increase stamina/health/mana regeneration for 30 mins kind of thing.  I see them as a temporary skill tree boost.

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i dont like consumables and i dont like heal potions. in just about every game i try to find a way to not need them even if its intended to do so.

 

bufffood is even worse.

Edited by Gromschlog

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pure HoT...10 ticks healing like 20% total, with a dunno... 30 sec cooldown?

 

more stuff to loot is rarely a bad thing ;)

 

 

like Helix said... making heals widely unavailable, except for a few classes, isn't a good thing and people will bow and scrape for everything that might give them some extra HP during a fight.

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pure HoT...10 ticks healing like 20% total, with a dunno... 30 sec cooldown?

 

more stuff to loot is rarely a bad thing ;)

 

 

like Helix said... making heals widely unavailable, except for a few classes, isn't a good thing and people will bow and scrape for everything that might give them some extra HP during a fight.

 

everyone has regen out of fight. if you want to kill hard enemies, you are supposed to team up. if we get more sources of heal, tanks will get the ability to kill harder enemies alone one day.

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I'm hoping that all potions are well controlled with cool down times, modest benefits, and maybe even side-effects for stronger potions (ex: heal more damage but at a 3:1 cost of your stamina).  I'd also love to see some atypical types potions to keep the craft interesting, and there are a few of potential effects that come to mind:

  • Harvest Boost: slightly increase yield or reduce harvest time when collecting resources
  • Hunger Mitigation
  • Siege Resources: acid bombs to pre-weaken walls, molotov cocktails to burn them, smoke or bug (literally) bombs to disrupt wall guards' vision, etc.
  • Physics Manipulation (for the Brandon Sanderson fans): temporarily lighten loads for easier transportation, alter your weight to make chain-pulls more interesting or to mitigate fall damage, or even radiate gravity around you to throw off archers' aim (a stretch on a technical standpoint, I know)
Edited by starrshipcs

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everyone has regen out of fight. if you want to kill hard enemies, you are supposed to team up. if we get more sources of heal, tanks will get the ability to kill harder enemies alone one day.

 

who the custard is talking about PvE here

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in pvp its even worse. if theres too much heal, no one dies. so, heal should be really rare.

Making healing rare isnt the only solution to combat pacing. Finite but fast healing could actually add an interesting dynamic. It forces players players to bait and guess what nukes/heals the enemy has and when they will use them. If a bait is successful, then a heal/nuke will be wasted, if unsuccessful, then a heal has been saved/used properly.

Edited by TragicNumberOne

Might I interest you in a low-interest mortgage?

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Pots are great for the economy and a robust effect table would be great...  I think failure SHOULD definitely be a possibility, either NO effect fail or even a chance of harm depending on the tier of the Potion.   In battle Potions should have risk/reward rather than being a free heal.  That would make pre-battle 30 min stat pots and the various skill pots less risk but still have a fail chance.  On the crafting end a continuous growing list of mats and hidden combinations that produce results only known by trial and error would keep the alchemy craft interesting...  I like crafting "combiners" where you can put mats in and get better mats out for every try...  we need 1000s of combinations and "secret formulas" that only come of massive trial and error, not cookie cutter crafting where you know the results.


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in pvp its even worse. if theres too much heal, no one dies. so, heal should be really rare.

Too little healing and it turns in to your average call of duty death match scrimmage. We can have dependable healing and introduce tools necessarily to defeat it. In eso it was disease, in gw it was deep wound. Right now in the test you just pick somebody to drill and they die, boring.

Edited by helix

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Pots are great for the economy and a robust effect table would be great...  I think failure SHOULD definitely be a possibility, either NO effect fail or even a chance of harm depending on the tier of the Potion.   In battle Potions should have risk/reward rather than being a free heal.  That would make pre-battle 30 min stat pots and the various skill pots less risk but still have a fail chance.  On the crafting end a continuous growing list of mats and hidden combinations that produce results only known by trial and error would keep the alchemy craft interesting...  I like crafting "combiners" where you can put mats in and get better mats out for every try...  we need 1000s of combinations and "secret formulas" that only come of massive trial and error, not cookie cutter crafting where you know the results.

I think a toxicity system would work. Using too much of a certain pot with a small time frame might be hazardous.

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in pvp its even worse. if theres too much heal, no one dies. so, heal should be really rare.

 

what you're talking about are these highly potent heals, that are usually only available to 1 class and are being cycled and thus create those "fore hose healers". The buzzword that ACE has been throwing around. Yes, that usually results in these annoying scenarios.

 

What I hoped to see, were widely available, small heals/HoTs, that have to be aimed and requires teams to coordinate them to be highly effective.

 

Yet, what we have atm is some piss-poor point blank AoE heal that requires 0 skill to use and is highly sought after in every group composition, because there's literally nothing you can do, but run away when you're low health.

 

Allowing offensive and passive playstyles is something ACE should be working towards (and heals are a big part of defensive gameplay), yet what we have is either buttonmash or run around like a headless chicken.

Edited by freeze

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what you're talking about are these highly potent heals, that are usually only available to 1 class and are being cycled and thus create those "fore hose healers". The buzzword that ACE has been throwing around. Yes, that usually results in these annoying scenarios.

 

What I hoped to see, were widely available, small heals/HoTs, that have to be aimed and requires teams to coordinate them to be highly effective.

 

Yet, what we have atm is some piss-poor point blank AoE heal that requires 0 skill to use and is highly sought after in every group composition, because there's literally nothing you can do, but run away when you're low health.

 

Allowing offensive and passive playstyles is something ACE should be working towards (and heals are a big part of defensive gameplay), yet what we have is either buttonmash or run around like a headless chicken.

I doubt we'll see any ultra tight skill shot heal with a huge margin of error like you'd find in DFO. We'll have to wait and see what the Druid and other specializations and disciplines offers. Right now a single legionnaire cannot keep anyone alive against a sustained butt pounding, even in small group scrimmages (but the little healing they do does help, it's just not enough IMO). It also seems that archetypes will be strapped to a very static ability set which is unfortunate.

 

in pvp its even worse. if theres too much heal, no one dies. so, heal should be really rare.

 

All the melee archetypes in the game atm are "All-In" types. If a champion uses his leap to engage on a group, and the group turns around on him, that champion has no choice but to run. Even with a legionnaire backing him up with his 1 lowly front loaded heal and peppering with his melee heal, that champion is going to be running. Melees NEED something to keep them going in a fight, other wise the meta will be largely low risk ranged based.

 

I should add that in the 15 years of playing MMOs, I've never been in a group that has found killing another group with healing an impossible task. Healing simply means you have to work harder, and play smarter to score kills, an apparent foreign concept with this generation of gamers that want instant gratification and never wants to be slightly inconvenienced. Healing extends a 10s wack-off to an actual fight. Sure there is the scenario where the team with the most healers wins, but there is always solutions to that as well. For example in Age of Conan you only had 1 front loaded burst heal on a 60s cool down, and the majority of healing was done through HoTs that couldn't stack if they were coming from the same class.

 

So hopefully the devs realize this (just like they did with the client movement controller, and the necessity for strafing and back peddling). I don't want crowfall to be 3rd person chivalry: medieval warfare part deux, cause that game got boring after the 10th match.

Edited by helix

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This'll be especially interesting if the ingredients for healing pots are fairly rare and possible to farm should the opportunity present itself. It gives a PoI of great strategic importance and also means that as Winter approaches, there might be a "boom" of healing pots during the harvest before they become 99% limited product.

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i dont really see the point of consumables if they are rare...

the whole games economy is based on stuff that gets used and has to be renewed some time.

which in fact means, that there will be lots of stuff to craft, because everyone will need new armour, weapon etc sometimes. now, why should the thing thats totally common in any other game be rare here, where everything else is supposed to be common? i guess, if we have to get new armour, weapon and such stuff sometimes, it will be easier compared to other games to craft the good stuff. there would be no point in crafting the best stuff if it gets destroyed in a week and takes two weeks to get the ingredients for it.

 

if you want pots to be rarely used, just put a longer cooldown on them. if you can only use a pot once every 30min, their use is rare by definition

Edited by Gromschlog

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I have a feeling this game will most definitely have consumables in the form of potions and buff foods. I think it's almost guaranteed. 

 

They'd be great for the economy and crafting side of the game since they'd be a constant resource sink and people would be going through them like crazy. It'd also give people another meaningful resource to go after besides the things needed to make vessels, weapons, and buildings.

 

I think it fits very well with how crafting heavy this game is going to be. Plus it gives people something else to prepare for if nothing else interesting is going on at the time.

Edited by Zybak

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Not a crafting buff here but why are you thinking so hard about reinventing the whell? Why not make it like every other crafting spec we saw / heard about so far? Common items are easily massproducible, Uncommon ones are commons for richer people ranging up to some ludicrous rare items that even the rich folks don't come by very often.

 

I personally like consumable being it gear, to well be geared, food to keep my warmth and hunger resistence up or this invisibility potion I got as a reward from a bounty a week ago.

 

For the more common items it is like a checklist same thing when you go camping: "Do I have everything repaired? Check. Do I have enough health potions? Check. An extra pair of socks? Ok I'll go buy some.

 

For the more rare items it is like a trump card you tresure but always keep at hand in case something unexpected happens. The clasical "I am going to use all my CD'S and buffs on that boss! *12 seconds later* Well that was way to easy for a boss".


 

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I love you all.

 

 

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