Shadowbane guilds going to dominate this game?

kickit · January 7, 2015

I think shadowbane losses wouldn't have been so bad if you were able to keep some facet of your city. The things that made your city attractive and worth defending:

-Location

-Pride

-Ability to roll weapons & armor

-Bind point to areas of interest like runes, armor/weapon drops, mob camps, etc (an extension of #1)

-Being able to build your own stuff because it's a sandbox

When you lost a city in shadowbane, you lost all of that. You even lost your bindpoint (until they brought in sea dog's rest). If they could find a way to make losing a siege significant, but not an epic loss then that would be better.

Maybe you lose the location, but you still have a city and a bind point. Maybe you lose some walls and important buildings, but you can always build them up again since you'll still have your city. You can eventually roll weapons, armor, etc again but the timers would be longer since you just lost a siege. So it's worth it for those attacking to strategically hamper you (along with crushing your pride) but they can't just grief you til you quit.

Drenath · January 7, 2015

If this game ends up being like a shadowbane 2....

How long do you think it will take for the SB guilds to run the rest of the carebears off the game?

Not long if they've all got skin as thin as the few I've already managed to offend by bumping up against the profanity filter.

lilmarz · January 7, 2015

I hope they have a justice / reputation system that limits griefers.

maybe some sort of alignment system but being limted to griefing would be gay

nehemia · January 7, 2015

There certainly won't be a massive SB alliance, that's for certain. But it really isn't uncommon for SB vets to dominate in a game, most of these clans are also top dogs in other mmo's they have played. I could even dare to say SB vets consist some of the best MMO PvP guilds up to date.

lilmarz · January 7, 2015

Uhhh... I disagree, you have to have limits. Or it turns out everyone is a griefer.

EVE Online for example. Its a cesspool community now. I would never play that game again. Everyone is negative there.

edit -- Do we really want another Darkfall? I didnt even play it... So much promise wasted...

you never played darkfall why should we listen to you?

teclus · January 7, 2015

I doubt it SB players would dominate much other the forums and forming alliances. There are a lot of poorly made socksty online gamers playing the emulator.

dreaden · January 7, 2015

depends, is going to be click to move, click to target? if so SB players will have an edge up. WASD movement and aiming spells? we might be behind the power curve there...

voronwe eldalom · January 7, 2015

Why? It's not like SB players only ever play point & click games. Most of us have probably played every other game in the meantime, too, chasing that high we once felt. I'd actually prefer WASD movement (as long as we could still have group formations), but I'll take any interface.

And Play2Crush was what Shadowbane was originally called, so it's impossible not to draw a direct connection between them. Anyone expecting a softer experience than SB will (I hope) be disappointed.

Kyranleskil · January 7, 2015

Hopefully this game is a bit different in that aspect, if it has player cities at all. Most detrimental thing IMO to Shadowbane was the "now what?" after a guild lost everything that had in game. It's difficult to make loss meaningful while still finding a way to make it not a 'game over' sort of deal. Hopefully they can balance that well so this game can retain a healthy population.

I'm not entirely certain Shadowbane guilds will be the dominant force here either, depending on how wide a net they can cast to attract players. There are a wide range of PVPers out there in various MMOs, all with different skillsets and experience. Only certain skillsets transfer game to game..

All in all, I think (and hope!) we'll see healthy competition amongst guilds coming from all games

Guilds lost citys all the time, if you lost your city, you took yours back or found a new one. OR you found someone to take you in, until you could get a new one. It was not the end when you lost your town, if anything it made you stronger. Just ask anyone from TSG, I think they were even more bad ass after they lost their city and then pulled their stuff together and took it back.

kickit · January 7, 2015

The stronger guilds discover their weaknesses, rebuild, re-spec and come back. Look at shadowbane when it first launched. Massively merciless was what happened to the player base as well. It shut down the first 6 servers in about a year. Those servers easily started with 1k population each. Easily lost 10,000 players after people repeatedly got ganked in Khar or their cities burned down (or the map was full and you couldn't build one).

There's a difference between PvP and genocide. I'd argue that shadowbane killed it's own player base. The last 1,000 or so that hung around after that were hardened vets of the game and could handle losing some pixels.

Sure, you can do a game with a bunch of sharks and wolves. But the game is better when all the fish and the sheep still play.

Joyeuse · January 7, 2015

Why? It's not like SB players only ever play point & click games. Most of us have probably played every other game in the meantime, too, chasing that high we once felt. I'd actually prefer WASD movement (as long as we could still have group formations), but I'll take any interface.

And Play2Crush was what Shadowbane was originally called, so it's impossible not to draw a direct connection between them. Anyone expecting a softer experience than SB will (I hope) be disappointed.

Some of us became very good at other games in the mean time, just Shadowbane was one of the Good Old Games that was pure and raw. So your right, we filled a void until it came back, and if this becomes something huge and as awesome as SB, the experience from past games will transfer, not all of it, but some of it. Besides if you play Shadowbane, your obviously well versed in reading how the mechanics of the game works and what would make the best character, also you got thick skin so if you lose you don't cry and quit .

sarin · January 7, 2015

I think there needs to a middle ground found somehow. How that is done I am not quite sure. I have thought about this very topic for years now and trying to come up with a system. My conclusion as of now is you can't.

So I think I agree with what Gordon just recenlty posted in the UO tremmel server is a great directionl. Basically this game will be a game "you" want to play or you don't. They don't seem to be going for the get all the masses here route.

The problem with city seiging is, one looses everything and get's frustrated and disconnected from the game. If seiging has no benefit than there is no incentive for seiging. So how does a develpment team find the perfect system for this?? No one has come up with yet. Hopefully we are all here to help these guys come up with that system that is the perfect middle ground somehow.

Personally I am on the more hardcore side of things coming from UO/Shadowbane era. But I also am old and wise enough to know this drives a great amount of players away from games as well. So how do we encourage players to stick around after loosing or how do we encourage the more hardcore to accept lesser penalty's is the question. I don't have an answer as I said before. But I am excited to see where this is going.

The play to crush logo hints that this will be a little more hardcore and the playerbase a little more limiting than the general genre of MMO's we see now days.

Joyeuse · January 7, 2015

I think there needs to a middle ground found somehow. How that is done I am not quite sure. I have thought about this very topic for years now and trying to come up with a system. My conclusion as of now is you can't.

So I think I agree with what Gordon just recenlty posted in the UO tremmel server is a great directionl. Basically this game will be a game "you" want to play or you don't. They don't seem to be going for the get all the masses here route.

The problem with city seiging is, one looses everything and get's frustrated and disconnected from the game. If seiging has no benefit than there is no incentive for seiging. So how does a develpment team find the perfect system for this?? No one has come up with yet. Hopefully we are all here to help these guys come up with that system that is the perfect middle ground somehow.

Personally I am on the more hardcore side of things coming from UO/Shadowbane era. But I also am old and wise enough to know this drives a great amount of players away from games as well. So how do we encourage players to stick around after loosing or how do we encourage the more hardcore to accept lesser penalty's is the question. I don't have an answer as I said before. But I am excited to see where this is going.

The play to crush logo hints that this will be a little more hardcore and the playerbase a little more limiting than the general genre of MMO's we see now days.

Maybe have a place called pansy island where people can rent a city for a set amount of time and its all PvE :lol: :rolleyes: ? But make the town have what are now known as human armor smiths, sages, and etc so they don't get the special perks, but yet they can still roll crap. Make pansy island small and not the main focus point of the game, just some place for the non hardcore MMOers to go play, but give them incentive to go into the "real world". IDK just a stupid thought, I wouldn't implement it, but I like the hardcore aspect of Shadowbane, but I realize not everyone is like me so... Granted who knows what is going to come from this game so, what I am talking about is more along the lines of a SB2, rather than anything else..

omulet · January 7, 2015

Might be posible ,since some of the big guilds thend to have tons of members, and what to dominate from start(CN) and makit farmvile

Anotherneko · January 7, 2015

Maybe have a place called pansy island where people can rent a city for a set amount of time and its all PvE ? But make the town have what are now known as human armor smiths, sages, and etc so they don't get the special perks, but yet they can still roll crap. Make pansy island small and not the main focus point of the game, just some place for the non hardcore MMOers to go play, but give them incentive to go into the "real world". IDK just a stupid thought, I wouldn't implement it, but I like the hardcore aspect of Shadowbane, but I realize not everyone is like me so... Granted who knows what is going to come from this game so, what I am talking about is more along the lines of a SB2, rather than anything else..

I thought that was called Hi-Sec. *Cough*

What I'm really interested in seeing here is how the 101 players will do against the shadowbane/UO/EvE players. In 101 you're coming from a kid-geared, family oriented environment where respect, compassion, and charity are the foundations of the community. In all those other games .... they're ... not. 'Growing Up' in an environment where even the safe places aren't actually safe and everybody is out to get you fosters a 'bitter veteran' attitude and trust issues out the wazoo. Even just on the forums the two completely different mentalities have collided with interesting results, and the game hasn't even released yet.