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What kind of PVE would people want


About some PVE content  

97 members have voted

  1. 1. What type of PVE content should Crowfall have during launch or shortly after?

    • As it is, some mobs who gets stronger over time
      57
    • Some campaigns with more PVE focused objectives
      17
    • Allow players to make raids in their own Eternal Kingdoms
      23


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I want the kind of PvE where I kill other players.  I think it is called open world PvE.  

PVE should be nothing more than a side show to the stated core content of this game, killing people... or crafting.   Splitting playerbases is a great way to cause problems.

CF needs some PvE content for a couple of reasons but PvP should be the focus.   1. We can't have 24/7 PvP Siege battles and only PvP stuff ,it would be boring after a short periode of time ( just s

Here's the thing about PvE -- there's tons of it in tons of other games out there. I mean, this game boasts voxels and building. But guess what, you won't get to build on the level you can in other games like Rust, Reign of Kings, that EQ game, etc. You're going to drop a parcel and poof you have a building. For good reason, too.

 

But not going off topic, a ton of games have PvE content. If you've already burned through every hour of PvE content on planet earth then you're a sick freak.

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Shout out to Pang for doing werk in this thread.

 

The only way I see PVE being adapted into this game is as a secondary system to provide crafting resources and minor obstacles in the world. I don't know why people keep forgetting this is going to be a game about PVP. It's not about killing some big, scary pile of pixels that has the same strategy over and over. We have games for that.

 

It's about creating relationships: enemies and friends. Allies and nemesis'. It's about the people. Any AI that comes into play is going to serve that Unity of Vision.

 

Also on the note of user created content: Don't. It'll be bad. And people will feel bad.

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Shout out to Pang for doing werk in this thread.

 

The only way I see PVE being adapted into this game is as a secondary system to provide crafting resources and minor obstacles in the world. I don't know why people keep forgetting this is going to be a game about PVP. It's not about killing some big, scary pile of pixels that has the same strategy over and over. We have games for that.

 

It's about creating relationships: enemies and friends. Allies and nemesis'. It's about the people. Any AI that comes into play is going to serve that Unity of Vision.

 

Also on the note of user created content: Don't. It'll be bad. And people will feel bad.

 

Any game, PvE or otherwise . . . is about the People. 

 

I'm only making this distinction because the way it originally read above implies a (good) predominantly PvE game isn't about the people.

  • That's never true.  Any online game has as it's principal . . . PEOPLE.  How they team up or not, guilds or not, drama or not, etc.  PvP or otherwise, it is always about the People.  The theme/nature of the game simply provides the framework within which People recreate and/or compete.
  • This means that being "about the people" isn't exclusive to PvP.  It's not a differentiator for PvP, it's a common element.

On the same note as your quoted post:  I'm in agreement.  I'm looking forward to seeing how Crowfall ends up.  I'm someone who enjoys PvE aspects of a game.  In one sense "I'm for PvE" . . . but only as it relates to the vision of a game. 

  • The "E" stands for Environment.  Aspects of the Virtual World.  It's a design element / pool of potential to mold and meld to serve a design vision.
  • A "PvP game" can be hurt or enhanced (IMO) by how well or poorly the virtual world is designed.  (maps, AI good or bad, hazards or not, win goals or not and/or how implemented, etc.)

So, yes indeed, anything implemented within the Environment Domain must be done, and calibrated to, support the PvP Dynamic to be the principal in Crowfall.

 

Which is what I thought I heard when I first heard about the game.  It might have "less" PvE type stuff in it than I originally assumed, it might have "more", or anything in between.  But in all cases I had the understanding the game is going to revolve around a core "human guidance dynamic" (sort of): 

  • Resources-Supply-CWs versus PvE/EKs-Demand-Crafting

Each month closer to release will gradually see the wall of wavy glass blocks clarify so that we can actually see, precisely, what that all means.

 

And yes, it's going to involve a lot of . . . . People logged in.

Edited by Bramble

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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To all new people joining on discussion: I thought that Eternal Kingdoms (according to info provided), wouldn't be much fun (at least for me, because i don't enjoy trading). However, Crowfall holds huge potential (if anyone have ever played dungeon keeper, then you know) for implementing one simple feature to extremely extend options of what to do in Eternal Kingdoms. Allowing players to create their own dungeons/raids would add tons of content, tons of things to do, without requiring developers to do all the work. If players do all the work (for pve content thy want), then developers can calmly work on pvp content and balance.

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To all new people joining on discussion: I thought that Eternal Kingdoms (according to info provided), wouldn't be much fun (at least for me, because i don't enjoy trading). However, Crowfall holds huge potential (if anyone have ever played dungeon keeper, then you know) for implementing one simple feature to extremely extend options of what to do in Eternal Kingdoms. Allowing players to create their own dungeons/raids would add tons of content, tons of things to do, without requiring developers to do all the work. If players do all the work (for pve content thy want), then developers can calmly work on pvp content and balance.

 

This might make sense in a few years, assuming Crowfall enjoys that lifespan.

 

Apart from out-of-scope overhead, my observations in other games have been:

 

City of Heroes - nothing but FARMVILLING mechanism that stripped players out of the game world, their congretating in the hub/building where they built their "dungeions", that were populated by bowling pin mobs for Farmville reaping.  Note:  Implemented in desperation at the twilight of the game's lifespan.

 

Neverwinter Online - Superb implementation that allowed the QUALITY of the instance to be directly proportional to the NATURAL TALENT of the author.  There's no faking that.  You would have some instances of incredible instance scenarios, story lines, landscaping and mobs, etc., and other instances were either awful or bleh at best.

 

Not really a knock at those people, but the reality is:  Not many people can write a book, story, paint, or even design an office layout.  Some people can.

 

The idea may have merit some day, a year or five out IMO.  Maybe.

 

Given the HORDE of gold sellers / RL money hounds that have Crowfall in the middle of their Radar right now, scrambling for plans to hook themselves up in-game:  Probably not a constructive (or a match) of a feature at this time.

Edited by Bramble

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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I don't know how to respond to all this.

Read FAQ and Kickstarter FAQ, Kickstarter videos, All dev tracker and get the idea what's crowfall going be.

Yes there's a little bit of "PvE" In campaign worlds inside stronghold that you have to take over or point of interests or some valuable locations.

That PvE kinda thing is to make world not feeling empty or anything

 

Let's say Group A went to stronghold 1 and Group B coming from south to stronghold 1, the stronghold 1 have mobs around they need to clear it before controlling that stronghold but if Group A encountered Group B there's going be a PvP which group going take the stronghold first.

There a little bit of PvE to clear stronghold and then PvP, if there's no Group B yes it still a little bit of PvE.

 

I see where you're coming from, I don't disagree about your suggestion at all, I want my own Eternal kingdom to have underground dungeon to explore where i can place some mobs to make it challenging i will place hellcats and undead warriors all over my own dungeon then challenge a five man group to finish it, if they did finish it they get tax free area in my own eternal kingdom instance.

 

When i am saying challenging means impossible to finish it, because I am evil like that.  :ph34r:

but all again it's just a dream because that most likely this will never ever happen  :(

Edited by Mox

SkDJEH9.png Discord: message me if you want to stay in touch. Retired CrowFall member.

 

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Any game, PvE or otherwise . . . is about the People. 

 

I'm only making this distinction because the way it originally read above implies a (good) predominantly PvE game isn't about the people.

  • That's never true.  Any online game has as it's principal . . . PEOPLE.  How they team up or not, guilds or not, drama or not, etc.  PvP or otherwise, it is always about the People.  The theme/nature of the game simply provides the framework within which People recreate and/or compete.
  • This means that being "about the people" isn't exclusive to PvP.  It's not a differentiator for PvP, it's a common element.

On the same note as your quoted post:  I'm in agreement.  I'm looking forward to seeing how Crowfall ends up.  I'm someone who enjoys PvE aspects of a game.  In one sense "I'm for PvE" . . . but only as it relates to the vision of a game. 

  • The "E" stands for Environment.  Aspects of the Virtual World.  It's a design element / pool of potential to mold and meld to serve a design vision.
  • A "PvP game" can be hurt or enhanced (IMO) by how well or poorly the virtual world is designed.  (maps, AI good or bad, hazards or not, win goals or not and/or how implemented, etc.)

So, yes indeed, anything implemented within the Environment Domain must be done, and calibrated to, support the PvP Dynamic to be the principal in Crowfall.

 

Which is what I thought I heard when I first heard about the game.  It might have "less" PvE type stuff in it than I originally assumed, it might have "more", or anything in between.  But in all cases I had the understanding the game is going to revolve around a core "human guidance dynamic" (sort of): 

  • Resources-Supply-CWs versus PvE/EKs-Demand-Crafting

Each month closer to release will gradually see the wall of wavy glass blocks clarify so that we can actually see, precisely, what that all means.

 

And yes, it's going to involve a lot of . . . . People logged in.

 

You've done a great job of extrapolating off my point. I apologize if my meaning came across as PVE games having no people aspect.

 

The point I meant to articulate is that the focus is not on scripted PVE encounters, such as a raid in WoW. Yes, there is a people dynamic there: setting up a raid team, organizing strategies, execution, etc. It doesn't follow a full theme park model.

 

Instead, the gameplay and those moments of "Oh cool" are defined by how players choose to interact with each other. A large scale battle, politics between guilds on a campaign world, raiding enemy resources, etc. While Crowfall must feature some PVE and theme park aspects, the majority of the content seems to be on the motivations of the players and the guilds they form.

 

I think that's what a lot of people who are suggesting "PVE" content have trouble wrapping their head around. It follows an older school of thought on MMOs, more Galaxies and DAoC than World of Warcraft or SW:ToR.

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You've done a great job of extrapolating off my point. I apologize if my meaning came across as PVE games having no people aspect.

 

The point I meant to articulate is that the focus is not on scripted PVE encounters, such as a raid in WoW. Yes, there is a people dynamic there: setting up a raid team, organizing strategies, execution, etc. It doesn't follow a full theme park model.

 

Instead, the gameplay and those moments of "Oh cool" are defined by how players choose to interact with each other. A large scale battle, politics between guilds on a campaign world, raiding enemy resources, etc. While Crowfall must feature some PVE and theme park aspects, the majority of the content seems to be on the motivations of the players and the guilds they form.

 

I think that's what a lot of people who are suggesting "PVE" content have trouble wrapping their head around. It follows an older school of thought on MMOs, more Galaxies and DAoC than World of Warcraft or SW:ToR.

 

No worries.

 

I have a tendency to think of PvE in the broadest of terms, not tunnel visioned exclusively to "WoW-esque" Raid instances.  In that light you and I are aligned.  I agree that we shouldn't have the expectation of "Raid Content" in the PvE domain.  The game is supposed to be about the Resource / Conflict dynamics in the CWs.

 

Somewhere in a thread I think I made the claim " . . . we want the PvE aspect of Crowfall to be as in-depth as the PvP aspect . . .", and I still believe that.  But, my choice of words was probably out of context and misleading.  I wasn't focused on "Raid Content", but more on crafting, building, even "research projects", or other ideas that related to activity in, and things that could be collected within a CW.

 

What I mean, in my thoughts about Crowfall, is a lot of thought put into PvE aspects . . . that enhance and support the vision for the game.  To entice players to login, and entice yet more of them.   And if some of them are more PvE oriented (not Raid content, per se), I don't care.  Their game play will irrevocably be influenced / tied to the CWs, either as a direct participant in the CW as required, or indirectly through the Economy (buying needed goods from suppliers).

 

The more people log in to Crowfall, the better . . . for PvP.  We want people enthused about the PvE aspects of Crowfall (not Raid content, per se) because, in the end, any kind of crafting or building ties directly to resources only found in the CWs.

 

That link to, and strengthening of, the two sided coin of PvP-CWs-Supply versus PvE-EKs-Demand.

 

What my feelings are on the matter anyway.  As always, each month closer to release lets us see exactly how Art+Craft is gelling everything together.  Should be interesting, the release of the next "Archeage", sort of, from a hype perspective.

 

Anyway, take care.

 

/waves

Edited by Bramble

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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You've done a great job of extrapolating off my point. I apologize if my meaning came across as PVE games having no people aspect.

 

The point I meant to articulate is that the focus is not on scripted PVE encounters, such as a raid in WoW. Yes, there is a people dynamic there: setting up a raid team, organizing strategies, execution, etc. It doesn't follow a full theme park model.

 

Instead, the gameplay and those moments of "Oh cool" are defined by how players choose to interact with each other. A large scale battle, politics between guilds on a campaign world, raiding enemy resources, etc. While Crowfall must feature some PVE and theme park aspects, the majority of the content seems to be on the motivations of the players and the guilds they form.

 

I think that's what a lot of people who are suggesting "PVE" content have trouble wrapping their head around. It follows an older school of thought on MMOs, more Galaxies and DAoC than World of Warcraft or SW:ToR.

I am simply going to articulate how I will still keel you and take your stuff and gloat around in your body IF you don't join the same guild as I am in this go around...  You are my irl "kid" and your L33tness come from my good genetics :D.  Threats are the lifeblood of PvP and family!

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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In reading this thread and thinking about how your typical MMO's PvE stuff would fit into Crowfall, I can't help thinking of the Greatshell battles on the Shattered Plains in Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive book series. Basically, there's a big kingdom divided into... 12 sort of provinces (I think it's 12. Been a while since I've read the books), and all of the different provinces have huge military camps out at these huge, desolate plains that are sort of sun-dried and cracked apart into lots of different plateaus with deep, massive chasms between them. Well, these huge crustacean creatures live in the chasms, and sometimes a really big one comes up onto the plains. Spotters at the camps signal their camp's army, so that faction gets a head start, but pretty soon, nearby camps are aware of the spotting and make their way out there as well (it's not feasible for 12 different armies to physically traverse the plains, so it's kind of first-come, first-serve with the first 2 or 3 factions that are fastest to react).

 

Anywho, they sort of race out to this giant crab-thing to kill it, but another race that is enemy to the whole kingdom ALSO races out there (from a different location). So they all end up fighting over this one crab thing. But they still have to kill the giant crab creature. Why? Not because it's guarding any spiffy resources even, but because its heart is an effing gemstone!

 

So, yeah... You end up with PvPvPvE, all at once. If ever there was going to be anything even remotely akin to a raid boss, this would be the framework for how it was done. I wouldn't mind some kind of technically PvE events like this that were sort of announced to the CW (or just spotted/noticed) that ended up being sort of a neutral siege/raid (actual meaning of the word "raid" here and not the overly specific MMO meaning) that would essentially equate to just an interesting clash between factions/teams over a non-player-created objective.

 

Only other thing I can think of regarding PvE is that it might be pretty cool to be able to manipulate the natural flora/fauna to sabotage your enemy's territory. Maybe you attract a huge wolf population to their land so they have problems getting around without being attacked, or you destroy some ogre cave but leave the ogres alive and let them rampage against the nearest settlement. (Your enemy's). Tactics like that might be cool. They're busy dealing with ogres at the east gate, now let's attack from the west.

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No Quests. No PVE dungeons.

Only PvE should be at most what it was in SB, and because leveling is time based... it would have to serve the purpose of providing resources...

Any meaningful PVE should only exist because it's another resource for Players to PvP over.

~Hendel, Dissent

You may be a king or a little street-sweeper, but sooner or later, you dance with the Reaper.

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In reading this thread and thinking about how your typical MMO's PvE stuff would fit into Crowfall, I can't help thinking of the Greatshell battles on the Shattered Plains in Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive book series. Basically, there's a big kingdom divided into... 12 sort of provinces (I think it's 12. Been a while since I've read the books), and all of the different provinces have huge military camps out at these huge, desolate plains that are sort of sun-dried and cracked apart into lots of different plateaus with deep, massive chasms between them. Well, these huge crustacean creatures live in the chasms, and sometimes a really big one comes up onto the plains. Spotters at the camps signal their camp's army, so that faction gets a head start, but pretty soon, nearby camps are aware of the spotting and make their way out there as well (it's not feasible for 12 different armies to physically traverse the plains, so it's kind of first-come, first-serve with the first 2 or 3 factions that are fastest to react).

 

Anywho, they sort of race out to this giant crab-thing to kill it, but another race that is enemy to the whole kingdom ALSO races out there (from a different location). So they all end up fighting over this one crab thing. But they still have to kill the giant crab creature. Why? Not because it's guarding any spiffy resources even, but because its heart is an effing gemstone!

 

So, yeah... You end up with PvPvPvE, all at once. If ever there was going to be anything even remotely akin to a raid boss, this would be the framework for how it was done. I wouldn't mind some kind of technically PvE events like this that were sort of announced to the CW (or just spotted/noticed) that ended up being sort of a neutral siege/raid (actual meaning of the word "raid" here and not the overly specific MMO meaning) that would essentially equate to just an interesting clash between factions/teams over a non-player-created objective.

 

Only other thing I can think of regarding PvE is that it might be pretty cool to be able to manipulate the natural flora/fauna to sabotage your enemy's territory. Maybe you attract a huge wolf population to their land so they have problems getting around without being attacked, or you destroy some ogre cave but leave the ogres alive and let them rampage against the nearest settlement. (Your enemy's). Tactics like that might be cool. They're busy dealing with ogres at the east gate, now let's attack from the west.

 

+1 for mentioning Brandon Sanderson

And +1 because your scenario is another meaningful way to encourage PvP by fighting over resources.

-1 because there was actually no PvE in this scenario. The Crab thingies were in some kind of Chrysalis state and didn't fight back, they were just ripe for the picken.

~Hendel, Dissent

You may be a king or a little street-sweeper, but sooner or later, you dance with the Reaper.

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-1 because there was actually no PvE in this scenario. The Crab thingies were in some kind of Chrysalis state and didn't fight back, they were just ripe for the picken.

Crap! I knew it! I just need to re-read those books, as I've forgotten too much... Haha. Thanks for keepin' it real for me. :)

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If PvE has to be a part of the game I would have to vote for a PvP/PvE dungeon ala Darkness Falls from DAoC. Best of all worlds, Lots of PvP as it constantly flips, plenty of PvE type things to do, and best of all the oceans of tears produced by people trying to PvE when the Dungeon flips and the opposing team(s) come steam rolling through slaughtering without mercy.

 

Come to think of it I don't think any game has done anything close to DF since DAoC, it would be a nice to see something with this type of mechanic in a game once again.

Edited by Apok
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for implementing one simple feature to extremely extend options of what to do in Eternal Kingdoms. Allowing players to create their own dungeons/raids would add tons of content, tons of things to do, without requiring developers to do all the work. If players do all the work (for pve content thy want), then developers can calmly work on pvp content and balance.

Simple? I believe you underestimate just how much effort it would take to create tools to let people do such a thing. While it is true people would create dungeons, devs still have to create the tools to do so. Now if people could be satisfied with very basic things to create simple dungeons , that would be ok. A couple walls, some spawners, some chests, and of you go. 

 

But be honest, will it stop there? No. People will want more and more and constantly whine the system isn't good enough, people will write bad reviews about it and tarnish the name of crowfall, which didn't intend to offer such a system at it's core. It was stated that the voxels were only used to allow terrain destruction, not creation.

If you look at the multitude of games out there failing to even create a decent building game while that is their main focus, I think it's prudent not to implement anything of the kind (yet, one can hope Crowfall becomes so popular and generates enough revenue to do something of the kind along the way, that would be awesome and I centainly would like to see it happen, but to achieve that they will have to be carefull and take 1 step at the time, is what I believe and hope for myself, realisticly)

 

edit : my point is I don't think your idea is bad, I think it's to soon to propose it.  You have to excert some patience, let people first develop a core game and then let them expand upon it.

Edited by Overdhose

Dear ace, it was wrong of me to feel scammed, as time goes by, I realize that more and more. Thank you for letting me sell my account!

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Simple? I believe you underestimate just how much effort it would take to create tools to let people do such a thing. While it is true people would create dungeons, devs still have to create the tools to do so. Now if people could be satisfied with very basic things to create simple dungeons , that would be ok. A couple walls, some spawners, some chests, and of you go. 

 

But be honest, will it stop there? No. People will want more and more and constantly whine the system isn't good enough, people will write bad reviews about it and tarnish the name of crowfall, which didn't intend to offer such a system at it's core. It was stated that the voxels were only used to allow terrain destruction, not creation.

If you look at the multitude of games out there failing to even create a decent building game while that is their main focus, I think it's prudent not to implement anything of the kind (yet, one can hope Crowfall becomes so popular and generates enough revenue to do something of the kind along the way, that would be awesome and I centainly would like to see it happen, but to achieve that they will have to be carefull and take 1 step at the time, is what I believe and hope for myself, realisticly)

 

edit : my point is I don't think your idea is bad, I think it's to soon to propose it.  You have to excert some patience, let people first develop a core game and then let them expand upon it.

Even if they have the resources to create this awful dungeon system, they shouldn't. To get all of that money from the PvP aspects and then see it be invested into PvE would be seen (and rightfully so) as a huge betrayal of trust. Not to a sign of mention raw incompetence as there is no way it could be even remotely enjoyable without it being in a dedicated game. (And when players do come for it, they will demand more features for it, further betraying the PvPers)

Might I interest you in a low-interest mortgage?

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 To get all of that money from the PvP aspects and then see it be invested into PvE would be seen (and rightfully so) as a huge betrayal of trust. 

You may be right about that, and the fact people would keep demanding more was something I already stated myself to. However I also believe it's a dangerous stance you are taking here, talking about pvp <> pve money. I might consider myself more of a pve'er (certainly was in the past), yet still enjoy the pvp in this game, and actaully have been attracted to this game because of the EK system. Does that make my money pvp or pve? Who deicdes that, you? 

 

What if the awfull system one day (in a future far far away) actually helps the game survive, pve and pvp alike? I'm not saying player made dungeons should have campaign loot, I'm saying player made dungeon would require campaign loot to build, and most likely the support of a guild. 

 

I realize it's an utopian dream, maybe I didn't quite stress enough just how utopian it was, and I certainly don't want to breed any misplaced hope for the future, but I'm not entirely sure you understand that utopian vision I have either. I just didn't voice it into detail not to start another theorethical war over something that is TO SOON to discuss. We don't know how succesfull CW will be, what / how big of a player base it will grow, and how much revenue that will represent. So it's still TO SOON.

 

I don't know how many people here enjoy anime and specifically Overlord, but I can't help but think that Crowfall, after setting up it's core game, would be a pretty good match to allow something of the kind. And again, Utopian dreamer here...

Dear ace, it was wrong of me to feel scammed, as time goes by, I realize that more and more. Thank you for letting me sell my account!

-a very satisfied customer-

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