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First look: Ranger powers & UI - Official discussion thread

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I will say it like, after the long read, RANGER LOOKS TOTALLY DISAPPOINTING. 

When other archetypes where coming out I was like ''that's nice, oo change form'' and so on.

 

Here ?

 

BS AMMO mechanic. You talked A LOT about balance in the news. Hope you are adding ammunition to all other characters right ? No way you are gonna make 2(Stalker and Ranger) be only 2 Archetypes that tie combat ammo to crafting system as its seems stupid right ?

 

BS STEALTH mechanic breaks after movement ? Great, so awesome that hopefully, it will be passive that activates 1 sec after ranger goes full stop That was sarcasm. Breaks on movement... what a genious thought about such resolution ?

 

BS SWAP mechanic. 1) Complain about archetype being to versatile > add melee to it to be more versatile > complain again > remove stealth as archetype is  ''to versatile"

 

 

Tl ; dr  : From pure theorycraft ( no numbers / video / gameplay)  its seems as worst ideas cuddled together and thrown to Ranger Archetype.

Untill I do see gameplay from Ranger it's going waaaayyy down till last position of ''want to play'' list.

 

Even though I agree that I am kind of dissapointed, I don't agree with any of your points made.

 

Ammo it is ok when it is well done, I don't know the current range of the Confessor's autoattack, but I think the Ranger will have more range, so there is already an advantage, the projectile is faster, which is an advantage too, and it has the ability to swap between types of arrows to deal more damage to specific armor types, which is a huge advantage compared to the confessor autos that are limited in that aspect.

 

The disadvantage for it would be, probably small hitbox and dependant on ammunition. I think the advantages outweight the disadvantages, unless the ammo is really limited.

 

The stealth mechanic I think it is ok, I think it should have some advantages over the stealth mechanic, but anyway, is more about waiting and engage that just running around invi, what I don't like is that the rest of the skill kit doesn't have to be thinking on this mechanic, the trap shown last really low time show you would need to be breaking out of stealth to put another down every now and then, I would prefer to be able to stay 4-5 min waiting for someone to pass through a doorway, or something like that, making him step in my trap and then kill him there, thanks to the trap.

 

And the swap mechanic, well, I don't see what is the problem you have here, I don't thinkg the melee mechanic is for the Ranger to be more versatile but because there is an ammo mechanic, so you can still fight if you get yourself out of ammo.

 

The big problem that I have is that the Ranger shown right now doesn't feel at all like an specialist, is just a a ranged/melee damage dealer, I thought that specialist would mean that it had huge utility abilities, in this case, traps, slows, etc, but it seems like the utility from the Ranger is basicly damage.

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I will say it like, after the long read, RANGER LOOKS TOTALLY DISAPPOINTING. 

When other archetypes where coming out I was like ''that's nice, oo change form'' and so on.

 

Here ?

 

BS AMMO mechanic. You talked A LOT about balance in the news. Hope you are adding ammunition to all other characters right ? No way you are gonna make 2(Stalker and Ranger) be only 2 Archetypes that tie combat ammo to crafting system as its seems stupid right ?

 

Duelist will likely use bullets as ammunition for some skills as well. But it is very risk-v-reward, powerful arrow skills for the cost of limited resources. I feel this is find for the game, and gives some interesting options. Confessor may be ranged and may have a non-limited resource for its skills, but Ranger is seemingly making up for this difference with quicker and more powerful attacks, such as ranged suppression and the various crit-based skills.

 

BS STEALTH mechanic breaks after movement ? Great, so awesome that hopefully, it will be passive that activates 1 sec after ranger goes full stop That was sarcasm. Breaks on movement... what a genious thought about such resolution ?

 

This seems to be made so that stealth isn't mistakenly used for Ranger as a sustainability mechanic in combat. It seems to be meant to further specialize Ranger as the "patient ambusher". Hopefully as things develop, the Ranger's Hide+Arrows show to be quite formidable for surprise attacks, though unlike Assassins the Ranger will have to prep themselves beforehand. 

 

BS SWAP mechanic. 1) Complain about archetype being to versatile > add melee to it to be more versatile > complain again > remove stealth as archetype is  ''to versatile"

 

Adding melee is a design decision, as is the altered stealth into Hide. Not adding melee would require infinite ammo, which would require a rebalance/nerf of the Ranger's powers. To balance stealth from turning Ranger too cheesy in its style, it was given a limitation so to limit it to its original purpose unless further specialized.

 

Tl ; dr  : From pure theorycraft ( no numbers / video / gameplay)  its seems as worst ideas cuddled together and thrown to Ranger Archetype.

Untill I do see gameplay from Ranger it's going waaaayyy down till last position of ''want to play'' list.

 

I disagree, but that's just me.

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Guild Wars 2 weapons brah

Tbh, I would kinda like a light version of this...they mentioned that archetypes would be able to wield a wide variety of (theme appropriate) weaponry, like spears, axes, greatswords, shields, crossbows, even an ice cleaver. And there is a BIG DIFFERENCE in wielding a one handed sword and a great sword, or a poleaxe and a two handed axe. Having maybe 1 or 2 weapon skills that are dependent on the weapon would be cool (like dark souls 3 and their weapon arts mechanic - enough to give flavor, but not enough to be too distracting or groundbreaking). Then we'd have MASSIVE combat customization - Weapon skills, archetype skills, and discipline skills

 

Downside to this: imagine the animation costs for each archetype for every weapon skill (*shudder*). Oh well, maybe someday...

 

...although...they are pretty much doing the same thing for discipline skills anyways...

Edited by RKNM

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They mentioned that they would address the weaknesses of traditional melee vs ranged combat in games (read: kiting), but didn't really see them address this much, if at all.

 

So what IS going to happen to address this? Sure there's the limited ammo thing but is a knoght just going to have to wait till the quiver is empty. Ranger already has a ton of mobility, so chasing is out of the question, so what, melee twiddles it's thumbs and hope they don't become half tree before they can finally attack?

 

I expect that the ranged abilities will have some startup and animation lag, kinda like the confessor's, requiring them to stop and aim the skill every once in a while. Is that the current course, or are we looking at the typical run&gun / happy feet shooting you see in so many other games?

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Tbh, I would kinda like a light version of this...they mentioned that archetypes would be able to wield a wide variety of (theme appropriate) weaponry, like spears, axes, greatswords, shields, crossbows, even an ice cleaver. And there is a BIG DIFFERENCE in wielding a one handed sword and a great sword, or a poleaxe and a two handed axe. Having maybe 1 or 2 weapon skills that are dependent on the weapon would be cool (like dark souls 3 and their weapon arts mechanic - enough to give flavor, but not enough to be too distracting or groundbreaking). Then we'd have MASSIVE combat customization - Weapon skills, archetype skills, and discipline skills

 

Downside to this: imagine the animation costs for each archetype for every weapon skill (*shudder*). Oh well, maybe someday...

 

...although...they are pretty much doing the same thing for discipline skills anyways...

if it changed their basic attacks that would be cool, a sword applies a little bleed, mace has chance to stun, axe has chance to cripple enemies, with the ranged classes could be a little harder tho

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I agree, being able to actually move is kinda important for sneaking ;)

There is an entire general skill tree that involves hunting stealthers "tracking" you can do on any archtype so i dont know why people are complinning. Just their natural state i guess

I actually find this hilarious. Stealth is SLOW, painfully drawn out, meticulously planned. About 49% of actual stealth missions requires almost weeks of route planning, slow and painstaking movement (some of which is literally crawling at a snail's pace for land recon) to the operation site with obsessive amounts of noise and sight-profile discipline, and hours (or even days) of waiting for the target to enter the Kill Zone. Then there's about 1% where all hell breaks loose, and the other 50% is getting the hell out of dodge (again, planned weeks out in advance, the attention to detail bordering on neurotic (if not schizophrenic) paranoia).

 

So stealth players needing to be "mobile" and lightning fast makes me chuckle.

 

Tbh, was kinda impressed with the ranger's stealth kit as a condensed form of stealth operations: they don't make the kit bloated or overdependent on a smorgasbord of hollywood spy tropes. Instead, they gave them 2 practical stealth abilities to be wisely and thoughtfully used for either attack or escape: one skill that actually conceals them, the other a dive (forest step) to assault their target or quickly and quietly escape without drawing too much attention (all while still having access to their other tools & utilities). To me, this is already more than enough to get by and have fun without turning into hokage and/or juvenile malformed delinquent turtles.

 

If the assassin turns out to have too many more stealth skills in their kit, I'd actually be nervous about their design. It's one thing to be a stealth specialist, another to become a campy bond movie. I say give limited and restrained practical stealth options without revolving completely around a single mechanic gimmick, while giving them the tools useful either in or out of stealth. Stealth should be just one tool, not the core foundation rewarding a class for toggling hotbars.

Edited by RKNM

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OMG Ranger/Necro/shadowknight-- LIFESTEAL....

 

I will be fine with it if we can still get full stealth through a discipline slot

Meh...the only issue I have with lifesteal is the name...I'm one of those folks who likes to rp as a regular run-of-the-mill mortal that isn't "the chosen one" with some divine or magical gimmick.

 

So for me and my ilk, going to call it tenacity. Whenever I spar and take a hit, I tend to fight a little more vigorously (or, dare I say it: tenaciously). Just had to get that off my chest; some of the naming has been a tad off (Sin for Confessor...still trying to wrap my head around that...)

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They are still planning on adding momentum to attacks, so that will help with chasing.

 

Beyond that, this isn't intended to be a 1 vs 1 game. If some archetypes are better at chasing down runners than others, that's okay.

 

I think the problem though is that rather than fix the problem of people walking away from attacks they made an archetype to combat it.


 

Rage Quit

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Hell yeah, can't wait to test it, was one of my preferred archetype in Shadowbane and this one remember me so well about it with the discipline rune.

 

 

 

We sorely have a need for a “runner killer” role in our playtests and the Hunger Dome, which is why we are placing this on the Ranger now

 

Blair confirmed Ranger for Hunger dome !!!  :D


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Thelanas Kar'Pal Membre fondateur de l'alliance Naerth en 2001 - Ex Shadowbane European Advisor Damnation/Carnage/Vindication/Corruption http://www.twitch.tv/gorwald/profile

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Ranger has a LOT of cool abilities. Maybe too many. I'm going to reserve judgement until we can play test. By the way, when is that going to be?

 Late March 

I think the problem though is that rather than fix the problem of people walking away from attacks they made an archetype to combat it.

They didn't design the Ranger to combat it, but the problem arose while the Ranger was being designed, so they the Ranger a solution to it. Same thing happened with the Champion, people couldn't hit others in 1.0, so they gabe the Champ a Hurlbat. They still do plan on giving Melee Archetypes Momentum to hit fleeing foes, it just isn't online yet.

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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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Question for Blair and my concern is what the implications of the Rangers mechanics will have on the Stalker Archetype.

 

Your rationale for giving the Ranger dual Ranged and melee modes is because they might run out of arrows and will obviously need to be able to still fight. Well that's fine I guess for this archetype that's listed as a specialist ie hybrid/stealth but what about the Stalker who is actually listed as Ranged DPS on his page? Would seem a bit out of place for a class listed as Ranged DPS to be given a full melee mode as well. If I run out of arrows that's on me and should have to retreat to go get/make more not be able to just hit a button and play a completely diff style.

 

Maybe/hopefully the Stalker will use a different mechanic whereby if he runs out of arrows he can then use a unlimited version for a much reduced damage output. To me that's 1000x times more appealing then having to outright play a different playstyle when/if run out of arrows. That way I can still continue playing the way I want in an albeit less effective manner.

Edited by pang

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I think the problem though is that rather than fix the problem of people walking away from attacks they made an archetype to combat it.

Did you not read the first sentence I wrote? Adding momentum to attacks should help melee stay on their targets better. We don't know yet exactly how well it will work since we haven't seen it yet, but that is the intent. If that ends up not being enough, they can speed up melee animations. 

 

Let's see what the next iteration of combat brings.

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If it was for me, every kind of projectile should have a form of ammo, confessor for example, should use reagents as an ammo for their spells.

 

Everything should be player crafted, so ammo, and reagents should be gathered around the world from herb nodes.

 

And the more powerfull your spells are the more reagents you consume.

 

Just my 2 cents.


Archduchess Alice

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Reagents for sure need to be a thing now.

 

All archtypes need weapon swap now... this is brilliant.

 

Ranger is more of a game changer than I thought it would be...

Edited by Kiro Elmarok

[TB] The Balance
Nation of Equilibrium

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