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First look: Ranger powers & UI - Official discussion thread

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I'd love for mages to need regs...

 

but I can't see a proper way to mass produce them...

unless you want to have some boring ass farming like AA.

 

All other games, where mages required regs, had NPCs selling them in large quantities....

Edited by freeze

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Stealth adds a strategic dimension to pvp because you can't just bottleneck or do the Hillsbrad shuffle. It breaks static situations and forces 360 degree awareness.

 

That being said, I suspect that most people don't hate stealthers for strategic picks or siege infiltration in mass pvp. They hate them because they are bored soloers alpha striking solo resource collectors. Hard to allow the good part without the bad part, although if you are interested in in-depth thoughts on this the Camelot Unchained website has a great essay.

 

How does a magical invisibility force 360 degree awareness?  For me, it usually means I know someone might attack me at any moment.  Track mitigates this a little.  

 

The most annoying part of stealth in Shadowbane was the need to have the hard-counter.  If you don't have the hard counter, there were some soft counters, but any rogue worth a damn avoided all soft counters.  So, while ACE wanted to break the trinity of tank-healer-dps, they seem to have forgotten that an annoying duality is stealth-anti-stealth...in my opinion much worse, and with game-decaying implications.

 

This is all to say that we have not gotten much evidence of how stealth is going to be implemented, but the brief description Blair gave suggests traditional stealth.  I was hoping they would follow a more innovative path, as with their blind system. If they go traditional, then I hope every single character has a similar cooldown/duration hard counter - call it "awareness".  Stalkers can have better awareness than others.  You want to have perfect invisibility to schedule the engagement on your time?  You need to use it better than I use my anti-stealth.

 

Thanks for the reference from CU, looking forward to reading.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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I'd love for mages to need regs...

 

but I can't see a proper way to mass produce them...

unless you want to have some boring ass farming like AA.

 

All other games, where mages required regs, had NPCs selling them in large quantities....

 

Could maybe do it with thralls, though I'm unsure how the beginning of a CW would look.  Could be fun, though.  Make some basic regs easily harvestable like for arrows?  


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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Very happy to see that you guys don't limit your ideas based on available tech. If you wan't to do something you make the tech that allows you to do it instead of saying "Can't be done with what we have". Thats the attitude I hoped to see!

 

I noticed that the skill icons in the tray have changed a bit and appear to be colour coded. Before I go trying to categorize them based on what you've shown, do you have a definition table for the colour coding? I suggested a while back that skill types should be easily identifiable by a illustrated border around the skill icon so it would be easy to identify a "press and hold" charge up type move or "combo" triggering moves from other types. Is this the start of an implementation of something like this?

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a little concerned about the below quote (especially since the word "much" is italicized).

 

so basically a must to be the quick twitchy FPS type player to play a ranger?

 

i don't mind skill based combat, just makes me a little nervous because I was in a severe weight training accident that has left me with a numb left thumb and index finger due to nerve damage

 

will I be able to keybind the numbered slot attacks to a gaming mouse?

 

and i guess I was wanting to know the level of degree of the word "much" in the quote below

 

""much more preparation and hand-eye skill to play then any other archetype""

 

 

 

 

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The Conceal power is being placed on both the ranged and melee power trays, and using it will render the Ranger invisible as long as they stay in place and don’t attack or get hit.

 

So can they cast "STAKE" while concealed since it's not an attack?

a little concerned about the below quote (especially since the word "much" is italicized).

 

so basically a must to be the quick twitchy FPS type player to play a ranger?

 

i don't mind skill based combat, just makes me a little nervous because I was in a severe weight training accident that has left me with a numb left thumb and index finger due to nerve damage

 

will I be able to keybind the numbered slot attacks to a gaming mouse?

 

and i guess I was wanting to know the level of degree of the word "much" in the quote below

 

""much more preparation and hand-eye skill to play then any other archetype""

 

Yes, you can, I already do.

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Could maybe do it with thralls, though I'm unsure how the beginning of a CW would look.  Could be fun, though.  Make some basic regs easily harvestable like for arrows?  

 

ya, beats me...

 

I don't want a daisy pickin skill... that's all I know :lol:

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will I be able to keybind the numbered slot attacks to a gaming mouse?

 

 

I use a Razor Naga and it works just fine with the other archtypes.

 

Could maybe do it with thralls, though I'm unsure how the beginning of a CW would look. Could be fun, though. Make some basic regs easily harvestable like for arrows?

 

This is what I figure would be the way.. or something similar.

 

Farming mobs for gear mats and getting a little extra to sell or give away later.

 

I'd love for mages to need regs...

 

but I can't see a proper way to mass produce them...

unless you want to have some boring ass farming like AA.

 

All other games, where mages required regs, had NPCs selling them in large quantities....

Harvesting is gonna be a thing.. but hopefully not as God awful as that labor system.. yuck. Edited by Kiro Elmarok

[TB] The Balance
Nation of Equilibrium

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This is an archetype I am really interested in.

 

I just hope that the arrow/quiver management doesn't suck out all the fun. This post seems all to eager to have us running out of arrows...

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So stealth players needing to be "mobile" and lightning fast makes me chuckle.

I havent seen any one asking for lightning fast movement while sneaking, but being completelty stationary as a melee character would make it almost pointless. On a ranged characterthe the hide mechanic works very well


MOkvLlm.png

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Question for Blair and my concern is what the implications of the Rangers mechanics will have on the Stalker Archetype.

 

Your rationale for giving the Ranger dual Ranged and melee modes is because they might run out of arrows and will obviously need to be able to still fight. Well that's fine I guess for this archetype that's listed as a specialist ie hybrid/stealth but what about the Stalker who is actually listed as Ranged DPS on his page? Would seem a bit out of place for a class listed as Ranged DPS to be given a full melee mode as well. If I run out of arrows that's on me and should have to retreat to go get/make more not be able to just hit a button and play a completely diff style.

 

Maybe/hopefully the Stalker will use a different mechanic whereby if he runs out of arrows he can then use a unlimited version for a much reduced damage output. To me that's 1000x times more appealing then having to outright play a different playstyle when/if run out of arrows. That way I can still continue playing the way I want in an albeit less effective manner.

 

Well, they've already said that the Stalker will be longer range at a much slower rate:

 

I'm pretty happy where we landed on the Ranger, the melee kit shaped up really nice and the ranged kit is lots of fun if you can master it. I've seen Confessors making kill shots with Meteor Purge from the Treasure Room to the top of the entrance gate on a moving target, without a soft target system. I can't wait to see what folks do with the Ranger. (Or the even slower firing, longer distance of the Stalker)

 

 

To me, this means that the Stalker will have even MORE of a need for a melee counterpart in their playstyle, as their ranged powers are going to be much harder to use under a certain range, leaving them unable to react or attack. And this is something to avoid in any game design at all costs. You never want to leave a player feeling they have no choice, or feeling helpless in an encounter; THE MOST frustrating and game breaking thing for players is when they feel they have no control over their own characters. This is why players HATE stunlock on CC: there's nothing they can do but ride it out and watch as their character has no option but get beat on. Think about every time your pokemon got confused and hit itself several times in a row, or paralyzed and couldn't move every freaking turn, over and over - it's THAT feeling.

 

I say that they should definitely give Stalker some melee...but a very small and consolidated melee kit, focusing on not directly challenging their attacker but emphasizing utility, like parries or counters. Melee moves that also emphasize CC and escape as part of their utility, such as lunges or backsteps, with ways to slow down their opponents approach with CC so they can get back in firing range. I keep seeing everyone saying how much they miss the aracoix scouts, with their bleeds and CC...well, here ya go!!

 

That said, I say they'd only need about three melee abilities, so the devs can spend more time for the Stalkers other mechanics to make it more unique and fill it's role as "anti-stealther" (wow, that left a bitter taste in my mouth) alongside its ranged DPS role. I'm thinking this is where the Ranged Sapper they kept talking about comes in, with larger, longer lasting, and more powerful traps and environment hazards come into play to help set up for sniping, but what do I know.

Edited by RKNM

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I havent seen any one asking for lightning fast movement while sneaking, but being completelty stationary as a melee character would make it almost pointless. On a ranged characterthe the hide mechanic works very well

 

You must be reading another thread, cause all I've seen here is people whine about their stealther's limited mobility while in stealth/hide. And even in other MMO's, while stealth usually starts out at a definite hurried pace (between walk and run speeds), character development quickly throws even this out the window to allow for nigh uninhibited (or even buffed) movement speeds. They've already talked about giving ranger's the ability to move in conceal eventually with disciplines and promotions, so call me a doomsayer, but I can see this going the same way.

Edited by RKNM

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Regarding the Stake power: if The Hunger is supposed to be a powerful, mysterious, possibly god-killing, insofar unstoppable force that is eating the universe bit by bit, doesn't allowing us to manipulate it at will to make things as if it were a thrall run counter to the narrative?

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You must be reading another thread, cause all I've seen here is people whine about their stealther's limited mobility while in stealth/hide.

 

I think you are getting a bit carried away here.Some people balked at totally immobile stealth. That is not the same thing as demanding lightning fast stealth.


IhhQKY6.gif

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Well, they've already said that the Stalker will be longer range at a much slower rate:

 
 

 

To me, this means that the Stalker will have even MORE of a need for a melee counterpart in their playstyle, as their ranged powers are going to be much harder to use under a certain range, leaving them unable to react or attack. And this is something to avoid in any game design at all costs. You never want to leave a player feeling they have no choice, or feeling helpless in an encounter; THE MOST frustrating and game breaking thing for players is when they feel they have no control over their own characters. This is why players HATE stunlock on CC: there's nothing they can do but ride it out and watch as their character has no option but get beat on. Think about every time your pokemon got confused and hit itself several times in a row, or paralyzed and couldn't move every freaking turn, over and over - it's THAT feeling.

 

I say that they should definitely give Stalker some melee...but a very small and consolidated melee kit, focusing on not directly challenging their attacker but emphasizing utility, like parries or counters. Melee moves that also emphasize CC and escape as part of their utility, such as lunges or backsteps, with ways to slow down their opponents approach with CC so they can get back in firing range. I keep seeing everyone saying how much they miss the aracoix scouts, with their bleeds and CC...well, here ya go!!

 

That said, I say they'd only need about three melee abilities, so the devs can spend more time for the Stalkers other mechanics to make it more unique and fill it's role as "anti-stealther" (wow, that left a bitter taste in my mouth) alongside its ranged DPS role. I'm thinking this is where the Ranged Sapper they kept talking about comes in, with larger, longer lasting, and more powerful traps and environment hazards come into play to help set up for sniping, but what do I know.

I would hope the Stalkers melee kit if it exists would only serve as a way to regain range on your opponents and not a full on playstyle like it is for the Ranger. The point of Ranged to me at least is well being ranged and having tools to attack at range, stay at range and regain range. Don't get more wrong I think the Rangers mechanics are interesting enough I just hope that this isn't a similar approach they take with the other physical ranged class in the game.

 

However in this article it says they want to make all the archetypes unique so I'm confident the Stalker will be more a fit to the ranged psychical class I'm hoping for.

Edited by pang

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If confessors used a reagent for their spells, they would be able to throw fireballs non-stop until they ran out of reagents. Do we really want that?

 

When they do run out, they don't have an alternate method of fighting. Even their basic attack costs mana. 

 

Everything costs something. The ranger's ranged attacks just happen to cost a physical item rather than energy, mana or rage. If a ranger runs out of arrows, he can still do melee. Stacking crit will increase your energy regen, and there will be other ways to increase energy pool size and regen, even if you don't go the bandit promotion.

 

Using a physical item as a combat resource means that it can run out without an easy way to replenish it, but it also means that it can be used for a much, much longer period of time without needing any replenishment at all, depending on how many resources you have. I think it's a good trade off.

 

If hunters in vanilla WoW could deal with needing physical arrows, rangers in CF can too.

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Regarding the Stake power: if The Hunger is supposed to be a powerful, mysterious, possibly god-killing, insofar unstoppable force that is eating the universe bit by bit, doesn't allowing us to manipulate it at will to make things as if it were a thrall run counter to the narrative?

Oh, definetly. I bet when the Stalker comes online they'll give them the Archer's Stake and make it an actual stake they carry around, it would fit their sniper role better I think, and from the concept art it looks to me like they wouldn't have much trouble hauling the thing around (I don't expect them to be the most mobile)


19.jpg

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They are still planning on adding momentum to attacks, so that will help with chasing.

 

Beyond that, this isn't intended to be a 1 vs 1 game. If some archetypes are better at chasing down runners than others, that's okay.

 

Last Stand: If you know you are fighting a losing battle you can try to run away. If you get 100m away from an opposing player and are below 50% health you can utilize this ability. If you flee a battle and don't turn back or use last stand when it is available your will receive a depression debuff. By activating last stand you create an invisible dome around you with a 75m radius. Within this area you receive a courage buff that is a true old school buff where you feel darn powerful, that increases slightly for every 15 minutes you remain alive within the dome. Going into last stand you are pretty much certain you will die. If you try to flee and leave the dome you will be hit with a major 1hr debuff called bloodtrail. Your movement speed is basically a crawl, your health can't regenerate or be replenished, you can't receive buffs or use stealth, and you physically leave a blood trail that stalkers can track. 

If you kill 5 opposing players within your last stand dome you can exit without suffering blood trail. Instead upon exiting the dome you receive "a story for the gods" buff that lasts an hour.

If you take the cowards path and choose not to take your last stand and run, you receive a depression debuff that can only be removed overtime by killing for the gods. This depression not only makes you weak but any friendly players within 50m proximity to you will also suffer a percentage of it. If you run away from a fight (100m) and see last stand ability appear you have 10 seconds to use it or else it vanishes. Once it vanishes you have 30 seconds to get back into fighting proximity or else suffer depression. Every time you pass on last stand, the timer for jumping back into combat with decrease by 5 seconds.

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If it was for me, every kind of projectile should have a form of ammo, confessor for example, should use reagents as an ammo for their spells.

 

Everything should be player crafted, so ammo, and reagents should be gathered around the world from herb nodes.

 

And the more powerfull your spells are the more reagents you consume.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

This has always been my problem with ammo systems: they only seem to be present on a small number of classes, which means that balancing them is difficult.  I think it is just too hard to balance the convenience/availability and the power when some classes just completely ignore it, and that the result is just not worth the effort.

 

In terms of the Ranger, I like that they are making a bloated archetype (relatively speaking) to test tech that will be needed for the future archetypes.  Heck, the easiest way to get people to test something is to make it OP (not saying that ACE did this intentionally).  This will pay dividends for the future development.  

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Did you not read the first sentence I wrote? Adding momentum to attacks should help melee stay on their targets better. We don't know yet exactly how well it will work since we haven't seen it yet, but that is the intent. If that ends up not being enough, they can speed up melee animations. 

 

Let's see what the next iteration of combat brings.

 

I read it I just disagree that the momentum is going to make a huge difference.

 

Waiting to see.


 

Rage Quit

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