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First look: Ranger powers & UI - Official discussion thread

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They mentioned that they would address the weaknesses of traditional melee vs ranged combat in games (read: kiting), but didn't really see them address this much, if at all.

 

So what IS going to happen to address this? Sure there's the limited ammo thing but is a knoght just going to have to wait till the quiver is empty. Ranger already has a ton of mobility, so chasing is out of the question, so what, melee twiddles it's thumbs and hope they don't become half tree before they can finally attack?

 

I expect that the ranged abilities will have some startup and animation lag, kinda like the confessor's, requiring them to stop and aim the skill every once in a while. Is that the current course, or are we looking at the typical run&gun / happy feet shooting you see in so many other games?

 

Shooting a moving target with no help from the server (soft/hard targeting/ aim assist) from 20-40m is HARD. Seriously. The NPC fidgets are even enough to spoil a well placed shot. Couple this with most of the Ranger powers being multiple seconds, every left click you miss is 2.4 seconds of lost DPS time. Wait until you try it with a zig zagging Knight running at you. You will be thankful the melee kit is so strong.

 

In a group scenario the Ranger fares much better as the melee ball tends to do its thing and not realize they are getting bombed on from a distance.

 

I know we all picture ourselves as Legolas, after years of games doing the hard work for us. I was sad to find out I am not Legolas and drop at least half my shots on a moving target.


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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I was really hoping for movement while stealthed, even if it incurs a movement debuff.  Character sounds fun though, definitely going to give it a try in the up coming test :).


 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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I was really hoping for movement while stealthed, even if it incurs a movement debuff. Character sounds fun though, definitely going to give it a try in the up coming test :).

You get to move via stealth on a melee character that needs to move (assassin).. The ranger can attack from.... Wait for it..... Range! So hiding in one spot is just fine.

 

Plus we dont now what the general stealth skill line will have, so maybe you can get movement that way?

Edited by Ziz

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Plus we dont now what the general stealth skill line will have, so maybe you can get movement that way?

 

It has also been confirmed in this thread that Rangers will be able to get mobile Stealth via a Discipline Rune.


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Shooting a moving target with no help from the server (soft/hard targeting/ aim assist) from 20-40m is HARD. Seriously. The NPC fidgets are even enough to spoil a well placed shot. Couple this with most of the Ranger powers being multiple seconds, every left click you miss is 2.4 seconds of lost DPS time. Wait until you try it with a zig zagging Knight running at you. You will be thankful the melee kit is so strong.

 

In a group scenario the Ranger fares much better as the melee ball tends to do its thing and not realize they are getting bombed on from a distance.

 

I know we all picture ourselves as Legolas, after years of games doing the hard work for us. I was sad to find out I am not Legolas and drop at least half my shots on a moving target.

 

This sounds exactly as it should be. Hitting long range shots on moving targets should be difficult. I'm not suggesting you currently are, but DONT consider any sort of soft/hard targeting or aim assist. Let the good FPS players shine at the ranged classes as they should. 

 

I don't forsee a Knight having too much issue closing the distance on a ranger between chain pull and the charge ability. If gap closes are exhausted a knight can simply block while waiting for the cooldowns to refresh. I play a knight mostly and on paper I don't see ranger's ranged abilities to be too OP. How difficult they are to go toe to toe with in melee is what I am most concerned about. Hopefully they are relatively squishy in comparison to my knight. 

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Shooting a moving target with no help from the server (soft/hard targeting/ aim assist) from 20-40m is HARD. Seriously. The NPC fidgets are even enough to spoil a well placed shot. Couple this with most of the Ranger powers being multiple seconds, every left click you miss is 2.4 seconds of lost DPS time. Wait until you try it with a zig zagging Knight running at you. You will be thankful the melee kit is so strong.

 

In a group scenario the Ranger fares much better as the melee ball tends to do its thing and not realize they are getting bombed on from a distance.

 

I know we all picture ourselves as Legolas, after years of games doing the hard work for us. I was sad to find out I am not Legolas and drop at least half my shots on a moving target.

That was great, cheers!

 

My next question would probably be how the stalker is going to cope hitting their targets (given the slower fire rate and longer distance), since they're the premier ranged dps class, but I expect I'll have to wait awhile for that one...keep at it!

Edited by RKNM

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This sounds exactly as it should be. Hitting long range shots on moving targets should be difficult. I'm not suggesting you currently are, but DONT consider any sort of soft/hard targeting or aim assist. Let the good FPS players shine at the ranged classes as they should. 

 

I don't forsee a Knight having too much issue closing the distance on a ranger between chain pull and the charge ability. If gap closes are exhausted a knight can simply block while waiting for the cooldowns to refresh. I play a knight mostly and on paper I don't see ranger's ranged abilities to be too OP. How difficult they are to go toe to toe with in melee is what I am most concerned about. Hopefully they are relatively squishy in comparison to my knight. 

 

And Knight seems like a good counter-class to Ranger, IMO.  

 

Edit:  I really want to see a Ranger nail a leaping Champion at 40 m.

Edited by mctan

Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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That was great, cheers!

 

My next question would probably be how the stalker is going to cope (given the slower fire rate and longer distance), since they're the premier ranged dps class, but I expect I'll have to wait awhile for that one...keep at it!

 

I think the best way to balance a long distance fighter is to make the projectile faster. If you have decent aim the problem with long range shots becomes your targets can zig and zag out of the way. The faster the projectile is the less zig zagging matters. 

 

Maybe it's the difference between a ranger using a short bow and a stalker using a long bow - projectile distance and speed. 

Edited by blazzen

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My next question would probably be how the stalker is going to cope (given the slower fire rate and longer distance), since they're the premier ranged dps class, but I expect I'll have to wait awhile for that one...keep at it!

 

Perhaps the Stalker will use antlers as a backup melee weapon.


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In a group scenario the Ranger fares much better as the melee ball tends to do its thing and not realize they are getting bombed on from a distance.

 

All the more reason it is vital that there be no Friendly Immunity in this game. Sadly, with the "this game has to accommodate all 'styles' of 'PvP*'!!1" crowd gaining dominant influence, I expect there will be damn few situations without Friendly Immunity.

AzmEXQ.jpg

 

 

* Translation: "honorable" duels, matched-team instances, and PvE

Edited by hamopeche

I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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All the more reason it is vital that there be no Friendly Immunity in this game. Sadly, with the "this game has to accommodate all 'styles' of 'PvP*'!!1" crowd gaining dominant influence, I expect there will be damn few situations without Friendly Immunity.

 

 

That's why there are different CW ruleset bands that will cater to the different styles and preference of PvP gameplay. Sounds like you want your preferences forced on everyone. A major selling point or design concept was the fact that depending on ones preferences could find a CW that best suited him/her because not all CWs will be the same with differing, rules, objectives and team/side/faction structure wise. That's not anything that is gaining influence or w/e that's been the case from day 1.

Edited by pang

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I think the best way to balance a long distance fighter is to make the projectile faster. If you have decent aim the problem with long range shots becomes your targets can zig and zag out of the way. The faster the projectile is the less zig zagging matters. 

 

Maybe it's the difference between a ranger using a short bow and a stalker using a long bow - projectile distance and speed.

 

What about crossbows/arbalests? And pistols? I know that they may not be long range, but the devs did say they wanted interchangeable weapon types or classified necessarily as long range, but i'm assuming that they'll probably come into play somehow.

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Shooting a moving target with no help from the server (soft/hard targeting/ aim assist) from 20-40m is HARD. Seriously. The NPC fidgets are even enough to spoil a well placed shot. Couple this with most of the Ranger powers being multiple seconds, every left click you miss is 2.4 seconds of lost DPS time. Wait until you try it with a zig zagging Knight running at you. You will be thankful the melee kit is so strong.

 

In a group scenario the Ranger fares much better as the melee ball tends to do its thing and not realize they are getting bombed on from a distance.

 

I know we all picture ourselves as Legolas, after years of games doing the hard work for us. I was sad to find out I am not Legolas and drop at least half my shots on a moving target.

If you can hit a moving target half of the time with this thing and the damage / TTK is anywhere near any of the other classes it's going to be seriously overpowered.

 

And I'm fine with that.

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Well, if we're looking at lore, the myrmidon will be the stalker's primary counter...which does give us a chance to make guesses about his kit:

- According to the Myrmidon Archetype/Lore page, Malekai directly made the Minotaur race out of the corpse of a legendary hunter/tracker and friend of D'Orion (so within reason that Myrmidons may have some tracking abilities to fit lore)

- Because Myrmidon's are classified as melee mitigation tanks, while Stalker's are the premier Long Ranged DPS, it's safe to say that probably a lot of the Myrmidon's kit will consist of

●gap closers (dare i say it...Bull rushes XD)

●soft CC (snares, cripples, slows, etc.) to stick to targets,

●ways to mitigate/make up the damage getting close (assuming a lot of health to buffer, a shield, or making a lot of use of lifesteal (which I consider most likely, to differentiate it from the Knight, as Evasion Tank has been given to the Templar already, and Champ is essentially a Health Tank in all but name only, setting up the Myrmidon as a Vampire Tank).

- This also probably means that the Myrmidon will focus on single target abilities to outduel and outlast the Stalker at melee range with their lifesteal, as it is likely Stalkers will be focusing on single targets to emphasize their sniping abilities.

- Figure the main struggle is for both Archetypes to stick to their strengths: the Myrmidon closing the gap, sticking to the Stalker, and out lasting their duels with their tank abilities; Stalkers will have to keep theor distance and focus on slowing the Myrmidons approach while taking them out from afar before they can make use of their tanking abilities at melee range.

 

I'd imagine that while Knight will have tools to mitigate some of the Stalker's abilities to still be rather effective, a lot of their abilities will still be too slow to close the gap as effectively before they can finally get their hands on the cheap little...I mean, murdeer...making them a little more effective. Who knows, maybe the Myrmidon will actually be our most mobile tank despite the Templar's evasiveness.

Edited by RKNM

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Well, if we're looking at lore, the myrmidon will be the stalker's primary counter...which does give us a chance to make guesses about his kit:

 

To be fair, Kane (whom I read as the father of the Forgemaster) one-shots Prince D'Orion...


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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To be fair, Kane (whom I read as the father of the Forgemaster) one-shots Prince D'Orion...

Good point. It'd be interesting to see how forgemaster as support could counter the stalker as ranged DPS... o_0

Edited by RKNM

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You get to move via stealth on a melee character that needs to move (assassin).. The ranger can attack from.... Wait for it..... Range! So hiding in one spot is just fine.

 

Plus we dont now what the general stealth skill line will have, so maybe you can get movement that way?

 

Hiding in one spot because it is a ranged character is not a good enough excuse...  That means passively waiting for someone to run by you, that is boring and means the only archetype viable for stealthed attacked would be assassins.  Why keep stealth to one archetype..  That reduces diversity for specific PvP groups (stealth/rouge, meele/tank, mage/DPS).  It's whatever though, I guess I'll have to stock up on those runes lol.

 

Well since the movement stealth has been confirmed with a rune then I am ok with that.  


 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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