Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Pann

Go go, Ranger powers! Official discussion thread

Recommended Posts

You like arguing for nothing, don't you Courant?

 

Like I didn't read Blair's response? I said let TESTERS try it... US. I don't care if GOD finds bullet drop useless, I care what the playerbase think (and how it actually plays out in their client). Regarding the SBA, there were a couple ones in the earlier videos, and here's one from the KS:

 

yBj9KXC.gif

 

Basically the lower part of the body keeps doing the moving animation while the upper body goes for the throwing animation.

Doesn't look bad to me, maybe others look worse, but I don't really care about how it looks.

And sorry about the GIF, I took the first one I found with the camera zoomed..

 

Lastly, your list of changes that have been made makes me uncomfortable. What's your point?

Some of those are ridiculous, like double jump, spinning power (which btw, is very close to what some powers do now, just with a different animation).

And client controller? Really? Like it was a gift to us and not the way all action games are made, especially in MMOs because we're not living in 3016?

 

But yes, technically we made that list happen. So, be thankful and maybe hope that they keep adding things we're asking for.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

y9tj8G5.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You like arguing for nothing, don't you Courant?

 

Like I didn't read Blair's response? I said let TESTERS try it... US. I don't care if GOD finds bullet drop useless [...]

 

They tested it and decided to not go with this option. It's a pretty clear answer. You want them to let us test something that they've already decided they wouldn't go with. Do you want them to change their mind based on what vocal users of the forum want? Why not PvE dungeons too then, if enough people agree with that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They tested it and decided to not go with this option. It's a pretty clear answer. You want them to let us test something that they've already decided they wouldn't go with. Do you want them to change their mind based on what vocal users of the forum want? Why not PvE dungeons too then, if enough people agree with that?

 

Not sure if you ever tested before, but that's what testers do. Instead of letting us test different combat builds (less or more mobility, bullet drop** or not, and so on) they're using tests like early-access games to keep people entertained and find bugs. That's what late-tests are for, not early when you're building the basics of the game. Your PVE dungeon example couldn't be more out of place, hope you realize that yourself.

 

Of course they can't listen to what people say every time. They need to be able to filter good feedback from the bad one.

In this case, feedback has been hardly misinterpretable..

 

**Blair's answer was that hitting people far away is hard, especially with bullet drop. So he went for range-limited arrows and no bullet drop.

Me and others here are challenging him on that regard.. we played "similar" and harder games before.

We know, for instance, how important bullet drop is, and would like to prove it on some of the abilities available.

 

They want combat to work? Let testers try different things and see what works out best, don't take some choices for granted.

Most of these things are just knobs to turn, no excuses for not doing it.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

y9tj8G5.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if you ever tested before, but that's what testers do. Instead of letting us test different combat builds (less or more mobility, bullet drop** or not, and so on) they're using tests like early-access games to keep people entertained and find bugs. That's what late-tests are for, not early when you're building the basics of the game.

Your PVE dungeon example couldn't be more out of place, hope you realize that yourself.

 

**Blair's answer was that hitting people far away is hard, especially with bullet drop. So he went for range-limited arrows and no bullet drop.

Me and others here are challenging him on that regard.. we played "similar" and harder games before.

We know, for instance, how important bullet drop is, and would like to prove it on some of the abilities available.

 

They want combat to work? Let your testers try different things and see what works out best.

 

Giving feedback is great. Developers read the suggestions and decide what they do with it.

 

You've been providing feedback and from what I've understood you would prefer bullet drop on projectiles, long range and SBA.

 

They said that they've chosen another path. But you keep repeating over and over again. That's not feedback anymore imo, that's just trying to put enough pressure on the devs so they give up on their ideas and pick yours.

Edited by courant101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Giving feedback is great. Developers read the suggestions and decide what they do with it.

 

You've been providing feedback and from what I've understood you would prefer bullet drop on projectiles, long range and SBA.

 

They said that they've chosen another path. But you keep repeating over and over again. That's not feedback anymore imo, that's just trying to put enough pressure on the devs so they give up on their ideas and pick yours.

 

No, what I am doing now is not giving feedback. My feedback is easily found on this thread and pre-alpha forums.

 

What I am doing is answer to provoking kids that feel the need to white knight and save their messiah from critics at every turn.

I was on your side against posts complaining about Ranger's pool in pre-alpha, but combat basics is a different issue of utmost urgency.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

y9tj8G5.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Combat is my n°1 priority for a decent MMO. Even if they get all the other things right, I will gladly gtfo if combat stays this way.

No reason to despair though, there are enough folks that aren't passionate with combat to fill God's Reach at least.

Crowfall Unchained.

 

Certainly your prerogative! I'm hopeful that combat speeds up a decent amount and that efforts on momentum and fluidity are not lost (two of the main points in the 'revisiting combat' dev video a couple months ago).  Some things are better, but there are significant flow issues, primarily at the individual level that I'd like to see keep improving.  I know Blair is intimating that they will indeed improve over time, so I'll keep my eyes open for periodic tune-ups: I think there are a few different trajectories they could take - clearly you believe they are on a particularly slow, clunky trajectory, but I'm hopeful much of that will smooth out.  

 

I guess we'll see!


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like sanetalk to me. Besides, what's the point of being super duper ultra supportive early testers they value so much, if you get to play a steam early access game instead of actually testing different possibilities out. What good is having no curtains on development of things like projectiles if you can't influence or make a change about it anyway? 

 

Not to mention it would make testing actually more desired since you get to help make the game as it was said in the beginning, rather then run around in early access to satisfy your boredom.


Welcome the hunger

Todd is Love, Todd is Life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You like arguing for nothing, don't you Courant?

 

Like I didn't read Blair's response? I said let TESTERS try it... US. I don't care if GOD finds bullet drop useless, I care what the playerbase think (and how it actually plays out in their client). Regarding the SBA, there were a couple ones in the earlier videos, and here's one from the KS:

 

yBj9KXC.gif

 

Basically the lower part of the body keeps doing the moving animation while the upper body goes for the throwing animation.

Doesn't look bad to me, maybe others look worse, but I don't really care about how it looks.

And sorry about the GIF, I took the first one I found with the camera zoomed..

 

Lastly, your list of changes that have been made makes me uncomfortable. What's your point?

Some of those are ridiculous, like double jump, spinning power (which btw, is very close to what some powers do now, just with a different animation).

And client controller? Really? Like it was a gift to us and not the way all action games are made, especially in MMOs because we're not living in 3016?

 

But yes, technically we made that list happen. So, be thankful and maybe hope that they keep adding things we're asking for.

To me it doesn't look good and I feel like it would look even worse in an action combat game where we will be constantly moving our torsos while aiming at our targets. In a tab target game like WoW for example that pretty sure uses split body it looks fine because the body auto turns to face whats targeted and not very "twitchy" like it might look in a game with free aim.

 

To me look, feel, and function are all intertwined, when one looks/feels bad the rest kind of falls apart as well, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm having loads of fun. I see the steady progress combat has gone through and I see where it is headed. I like what I see. Our whole guild is looking forward to play in Siege Perilous and with the Ranger. Again, the progress the Ranger combat shows makes us very excited about future archetypes and the older ones getting revisited with the new tech that has been build. Server and client performance has seen major improvements also. Keep it up ACE!

 

100% agreed.  My pledge was worth the backstage pass alone.  Playing the game will be gravy.

 

No apologetics needed - keep up the good work, ACE!


Nazdar

Proud member of The Hunger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me it doesn't look good and I feel like it would look even worse in an action combat game where we will be constantly moving our torsos while aiming at our targets. In a tab target game like WoW for example that pretty sure uses split body it looks fine because the body auto turns to face whats targeted and not very "twitchy" like it might look in a game with free aim.

 

To me look, feel, and function are all intertwined, when one looks/feels bad the rest kind of falls apart as well, IMO.

Look at games like paragon or over watch, split body animations, they looks great, the combat is fluid and it is excatly what i would want in an action mmo

 

The devs either

 

A- didnt have the money=time to make it work

B- arent capable

C- want locked animations for some other reason

 

But it is completely possible to have split body animations that look, feel and play great

Edited by Ziz

MOkvLlm.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like the combat is going in the right direction. These last few patches have really made the game feel much better and I can see it coming together now.

 

I'm not sure if I want the actual animations sped up or just the time in between attacks faster and more fluid. I feel like the actual swings aren't terribly slow, it's just that that transitioning from ability to ability feels clunky.

 

I'll be interested to see how things feel when we get momentum on abilities as well as a few more months of tuning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me it doesn't look good and I feel like it would look even worse in an action combat game where we will be constantly moving our torsos while aiming at our targets. In a tab target game like WoW for example that pretty sure uses split body it looks fine because the body auto turns to face whats targeted and not very "twitchy" like it might look in a game with free aim.

 

To me look, feel, and function are all intertwined, when one looks/feels bad the rest kind of falls apart as well, IMO.

 

Agreed. I prefer to not have melee characters spinning around each others in Crowfall, I think it wouldn't look nor feel great.

 

LAeCfF.gif

Edited by courant101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed. I prefer to not have melee characters spinning around each others in Crowfall, I think it wouldn't look nor feel great.

 

Yes it looks bad but it plays better, and to be fair that gif is being played faster than real time.

Slowing down a bit the movements when attacking can be a good thing.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

y9tj8G5.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes it looks bad but it plays better, and to be fair that gif is being played faster than real time.

Slowing down a bit the movements when attacking can be a good thing.

 

The gif was created from https://youtu.be/bjgSn4aFB3M?t=14m21s. It seems to be played at normal speed.

 

Maybe if there was camera smoothing and a couple of improvements it would look better, but most of the DF melee videos I've seen resembled to that: 2 melee characters running around each others with camera constantly changing orientation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather have Crowfall's current combat than anything resembling how Darkfall played. Darkfall combat tactics are so unbelievably cheesy.

 

I think I'd rather have about any other combat system compared to Darkfall's. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe if there was camera smoothing and a couple of improvements it would look better, but most of the DF melee videos I've seen resembled to that: 2 melee characters running around each others with camera constantly changing orientation.

 

Yes, because DF had like 2 melee skills to use in combat, most of the time they were not worth using (at least at the beginning).

That was literally the only way to attack, with skills a-la Crowfall it would have been different and more slow for sure.

 

p.s. the gif takes less frames from the video, so it looks overall faster

 

I'd rather have Crowfall's current combat than anything resembling how Darkfall played.

 

Oh man that's some butthurtness right there.. :lol:

Edited by Fenris DDevil

y9tj8G5.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, because DF had like 2 melee skills to use in combat, most of the time they were not worth using (at least at the beginning).

That was literally the only way to attack, with skills a-la Crowfall it would have been different and more slow for sure.

 

p.s. the gif takes less frames from the video, so it looks overall faster

 

Yea, I agree that in Crowfall there's a lot more melee powers to use. Maybe if there was one mobile power (the basic attack, let's say) and other are animations locked it could be a balanced alternative. Wouldn't cost too much and we probably wouldn't see those annoying orbital circle fights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh man that's some butthurtness right there.. :lol:

 

Obviously a lot of other people share the same opinion as you. Otherwise Darkfall wouldn't be as active and financially successful as it is today.

 

D15CE7a.gif

Edited by Zybak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...