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Go go, Ranger powers! Official discussion thread


Pann

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I'm pretty sure they're doing this because they know that if the Ranger was more mobile they'd be able to just kite constantly since the current archetypes feel kinda wonky with the current movement and animations, no momentum, etc.

 

It's either that or they want the game to be on the slow side so strategy/tactics matter a bit more(which doesn't really make much sense either since they're making it action combat with ~10 abilities).

I was more referring to what they first started with. Hopefully after their tweaks they talked about the movement will be better.

 

I still think though that this video of the Ranger wasn't enough to say if its too stationary or not. For all we know you can move with some of the Rangers abilities but the Dev playing the toon for the video just stood there to show off the abilities, which the vid was actually about.

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I still think though that this video of the Ranger wasn't enough to say if its too stationary or not. For all we know you can move with some of the Rangers abilities but the Dev playing the toon for the video just stood there to show off the abilities, which the vid was actually about.

That's a good point. I'm really hoping that it's like that but for some reason I have my doubts just based on the previous archetypes gameplay.

 

It would be amazing if Ranger is one of the first archetypes that start feeling more fluid and mobile before they go back and change the others too.

 

The whole general wonky feeling of the game with the slow animations and "rooting" is really what's keeping me personally from wanting to participate in the current tests. I'm just waiting for the new movement and momentum before I jump back into it. I'm sure there's a lot of other people who feel the same.

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So much this. I try each time to play but after 5 minutes I am too mad at the screen to continue.

It is a huge issue and what worries me is that 90% of people wouldnt say a thing, they would just uninstall and move on.

 

Imagine if the game launched with combat like this... Twitch would go crazy

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It looks like they want to go to a more mobile style though with some of the powers they added to the Ranger, I hope that is the case, I am still meh about the whole no movement while in combat except what the powers make you do..

 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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You don't really need to play her to know how she plays when there's either a charge-up mechanic and/or long animations on everything ranged.

 

Basic attacks - Charge-up, Ricochet - Charge-up, Rapid-Fire - Channeled, Supression Shot - ~2 second animation, Archer stake - 2-3 second animation, AoE Barrage - really long channel.

 

I'm saying that these things COULD be fine for the Ranger depending on how fast/slow the overall combat ends up being BUT that if Stalker is supposed to be even slower than this, I'm pretty sure that Stalker is not gonna work out at all since it will be just be too slow.

 

What are you basing this on? In a Team based game with specific roles, the Ranger/Stalker ideally hopping and bopping around. They entrench themselves and shoot. If the action gets up on them, out come the knives. We made some nods to this ala the Archer's Stake which is based on the interpretation that Archer's are at the back of the battle taking pot shots.

 

With the size of Stalker, early thoughts are he is even more of a sniper launching arrows the size of Javelins. (Kinda like Lurtz in LoTR)

 

 

Todd already confirmed on page 2 that you can release earlier for less damage.

 

The "problem" with this is that they're gonna balance around the max-charge damage numbers, not the early-release damage numbers.

 

It auto scales based on charge % at time of firing. So if you fired at 10% charge, deal 10% of damage. 

All of our powers "damage" is balanced around a series of constants. Powers have damage added based on a series of factors such as animation time, power cost, cooldowns, projectile bonus, charged input mode bonus. Damage is removed on a larger number of factors such as number of targets, buff/debuffs, supression, blinds, stuns, knockdowns etc.

Role damage adjustments are applied at runtime when the power is executed.

 

In theory the most damaging power would be one with a super long animation time, huuuge resource cost, looong cooldown, be a projectile, be charged, and hit 1 target that is fired by a DPS role.

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In theory the most damaging power would be one with a super long animation time, huuuge resource cost, looong cooldown, be a projectile, be charged, and hit 1 target that is fired by a DPS role.

Is the ranger still considered a specialist, or are they are dps now that they don't have true stealth?

 

Also, do the ranger's animations include momentum? I wouldn't expect charged abilities to have it, but has it been added to the melee abilities? I'm hoping we will see that in-game for all archetypes some time soon.

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Does Ricochet shoot arrows around corners?

Does Charging up a power void Ranger's Hide power, or are they invisible until they release the shot?

Is the Archer's Stake power AoE invisible while you hide and put out your pickets before you shoot, or would it give your position away?

 

@Arkade, The Ranger is Special ed. (Stealth), I guess?

Edited by BurgundytheRed

Honestly, you are the type of person that is much to competitive, has zero compassion for other people and think you are better than everyone else. You likely love to troll people on a day to day bases to get others angry and laugh about it. You make playing any online game unfun for everyone else.  -Kuroaka

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Does Ricochet shoot arrows around corners?

From what they showed in the video, I seriously doubt it. I'm reasonably certain that you have to have the reticle on the first target you want to hit. If it hits that target, it will then ricochet and hit up to 2 other targets nearby. 

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Is the ranger still considered a specialist, or are they are dps now that they don't have true stealth?

 

Also, do the ranger's animations include momentum? I wouldn't expect charged abilities to have it, but has it been added to the melee abilities? I'm hoping we will see that in-game for all archetypes some time soon.

http://crowfall.com/en/archetypes/ranger/ the Ranger is a specalist yes

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So this class actually looks the best of the pack, hopefully the tech from the ranger goes in to the other archetypes. Not a fan of the whole "stand still and fire" type game play if that is indeed the case.

Edited by helix
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I wish i can use some long bow attacks while moving.. it might be cool.

Seconded. I kind of wish you had sort of two modes of ranged offense being addressed:

 

1) the longest range, "I'm trying to putan arrow into this fleeing or unsuspecting victim" (longer charge and no movement while aiming) attacks, and...

 

2) more medium-short range "we're already in the fray, so I'll aim pretty carefully but still step around at walking speed whilst I loose my arrows" attacks.

 

Maybe even a couple of "very quickly fire a short-range-accuracy arrow whilst running" attacks. With cooldowns or something.

 

If you keep it too stationary, you're going to have the opposite of a kiting problem.

 

I really feel like a lot of abilities (even melee ones) acrozs all archetypes should simply toggle your movement speed into some level of walk, and/or have you take a step or collection of steps in a direction as part of their animation. I know they are working on adding momentum in some capacity, but there needs to be more mobility during combat as well. Elaborate dodges are fine and all, but it'd be great to also have simple side-stepping, pressing forward slowly with attacks to reposition your foe, etc., in between standing still attacking and dodge-rolling/leaping 70 feet. I shouldn't have to attack, then jog around to my opponent's fank for 1 second, then stop jogging and attack again. I could just step around him with each swing of my sword, stepping a reasonable distance (not "ha-HAH! I took a step, and I'm behind you now!")

 

To put it another way, I hope momentum works for more than just coming to a stop while moving. I'd love to see a defensive "counter" that has you dodge your opponent's forward-pushing attack, only to have them fall/stumble past you while you about-face and prepare to start attacking them from behind.

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What are you basing this on? In a Team based game with specific roles, the Ranger/Stalker ideally hopping and bopping around. They entrench themselves and shoot. If the action gets up on them, out come the knives. We made some nods to this ala the Archer's Stake which is based on the interpretation that Archer's are at the back of the battle taking pot shots.

I'm purely basing it purely on speculation and experience from previous games, of course. If there's "sniper"-like class(es) that's gonna be able to stand at the backline and do insane damage with fully charged attacks then they are of course gonna get trained on 24/7 by melee groups that wrap around and can get all up in their face and stick on them until they are dead, especially in a game where there's no classic firehose healers to focus.

 

 

With the size of Stalker, early thoughts are he is even more of a sniper launching arrows the size of Javelins. (Kinda like Lurtz in LoTR)

This sounds cool to imagine but are you really planning on having Stalkers animations/channel times/etc. be even slower than what the Ranger is currently like?

 

It looks like Ranger right now is right on the edge between being too slow and being alright since you can do the % power trade-off cancelling attacks after all, but I just can't imagine what a Stalker being even slower would be like.

 

If you implement the same sort of trade-off attack cancelling for Stalker's then what is the big difference between Stalker vs Ranger going to be? What would make people choose to play Stalker over Ranger since Ranger has the 2nd melee weapon set(which I assume Stalker won't have)?

 

Before this reveal I was 100% sure that you were gonna go with a Shadowbane-esque type of hunter/hunted system where Ranger would be agile//stealth/fast attacks/low damage and have Stalker be slow-ish/tracking/anti-stealth/high damage.

 

Could you maybe elaborate a bit more on how these things are gonna work and what your plans are?

 

 

It auto scales based on charge % at time of firing. So if you fired at 10% charge, deal 10% of damage. 

All of our powers "damage" is balanced around a series of constants. Powers have damage added based on a series of factors such as animation time, power cost, cooldowns, projectile bonus, charged input mode bonus. Damage is removed on a larger number of factors such as number of targets, buff/debuffs, supression, blinds, stuns, knockdowns etc.

Role damage adjustments are applied at runtime when the power is executed.

 

In theory the most damaging power would be one with a super long animation time, huuuge resource cost, looong cooldown, be a projectile, be charged, and hit 1 target that is fired by a DPS role.

This all sounds very reasonable, except for "Damage is removed on a larger number of factors such as number of targets".

 

Please for the love of god don't do any sort of broad general AoE cap rule in any way. So many MMO's have suffered from AoE caps and all it does is just help zergs because they can clump up like wonderful people and not get punished for it but get rewarded for playing stupid instead.

 

If you absolutely have to do AoE caps then please look at them on a per-ability basis and only cap the absolutely extreme ones. You will only be hurting smaller groups vs zergs with caps on the amount of people you can hit with AoE's and with damage caps.

 

The only chance smaller groups has againts zergs is pretty much AoE bombing. If you put caps on things, you take away that.

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Is the ranger still considered a specialist, or are they are dps now that they don't have true stealth?

 

Also, do the ranger's animations include momentum? I wouldn't expect charged abilities to have it, but has it been added to the melee abilities? I'm hoping we will see that in-game for all archetypes some time soon.

 

Ranger was still listed as Specialist on the in-game skill tree last I looked.  Also, I assumed Ranger was still (and perhaps more so) a Specialist due to the ability to provide ranged siege damage.

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I'm saying that these things COULD be fine for the Ranger depending on how fast/slow the overall combat ends up being BUT that if Stalker is supposed to be even slower than this, I'm pretty sure that Stalker is not gonna work out at all since it will be just be too slow.

For what it's worth, the Stalker isn't necessarily supposed to be slower than "this" (these specific Ranger attack speed mechanics). Just relatively slower than whatever the Ranger ends up at. They have ideas for how they want the archetypes to function, but I don't think they had a meeting and said "First thing's first, guys... Attack speed... Minimum of 3 seconds for the Rangerb and like 5 or 6 for the Stalker? All right, cool! Now let's design tbe rest of the archetype! 8D!"

 

All the mathematical values are the easily tweakable things. The general idea is less tweakable on-the-fly. So they don't want the Ranger to just jog around spamming arrows, it would seem, but that doesn't mean they're hellbent on exact charge times and such.

 

Couple of thoughts:

 

1) What if the barrage simply generated physics projectiles at random within the target circle, up in the air and facing straight downward, that struck whomever they may? The 5-target limit is understandable in a way, but what if there are 20 people in the circle, and only your 5 allies get rolled by the system math as the 5 targets, despite all being in one quadrant of the circle or something? I feel like the limit might work better as the number of arrows the Ranger can be expected to fire during the barrage. Maybe 15 people get hit, but they don't just all take AoE damage from each arrow that falls? The existinf way makes it feel like you're just channeling a fire nova AoE (that only hits 5 people for some reason) with an arrow barrage animation. It just feels like you're casting AoE damageb and not being a cool Ranger. *shrug*

 

2) What if being stationary while aiming/charging (maybe even taking a knee?) increased your range/velocity/charge-speed? That would be an inherent trade-off. Continue moving around, or make a more lethal/precise shot (or make one more quickly at the cost of not moving for the duration). At the very least, I think the level of charge of your shot should affect your arrow's velocity. That way, taking your time could lead to an easier time of accurately hitting people at a distance.

 

When you need to be moving, you're generally less worried about hitting a dime instead of a pumpkin, and when you're trying to hit a dime, you're usually less worried about being mobile. I think the proper use of charge and movement options could make the particular role of the Ranger (at any given moment) more fluid within the Ranged Combatant label.

Edited by Lephys

This post brought to you by...
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