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FenrisDDevil

Goodbye Everquest Next

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That is a good point. Some of my favorite games have been failures. It makes me wonder if I should be hoping and praying that Crowfall fails.

I think you missed the point SE shut down FFXIV because it was so bad that it wouldn't last a year, and rebuilt the game. It's a move that most MMOs don't survive, and only because SE has extreme money to blow and a franchise that needs its integrity protected did they remake the game into something adequate.

 

Crowfall will not recover from something like that, almost no MMOs do, that's just an amusing exception.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Hello.

 

I have looked at the videos coming up around this topic in the recent days.

It is really some kind of uplifting, to see so many people sharing the same interest in this project and urge to talk about it with others, making me feel not so alone here anymore.

There are so many great videos being made these recent days with honest people really talking about this because its a personal, honest interest of theirs.

These videos are really so well being made, and most of them even didnt use a script or anything for them, but just talked what really is on their minds and souls about this.

I was really amazed by these people and waht they had to say, it was so interesting and such great thoughts, connections and conclusions around this topic.

I really really appreciate there are such great amazing people out there feeling about the same around this topic as I do, and being able to express theirselves so very much well, just really great people.

 

So yeah.

Why is it that the attempts of the big publishers for the next really relevant step ahead in the evolution of the MMO genre are all failing, even with all their money.

Project Titan (Blizzard) and EverQuest Next (SOE/Daybreak) gave kinda the same explanations for their failing. That they made "something", and when they put that "something" together, they had to experience that the whole "bigger something" wasnt making fun.

I dont know, but to me this doesnt make the impression of a well constructed, thoughtful game creation process.

It gives me the impression of the developers all doing a bunch of different things without someone coordinating or having the overview, and then smashing it all together and looking at we have made.

Like if you let kids cook something.

And I dont know if anyone remembers the saying, "Too many cooks spoil the broth."

Or, "A camel is a horse designed by committee."  (I like this one a lot, because its real.)

Yeah, i relly get that impression, and I know that many processes are happeing like that in our society this way, because its totally not working, but there in most of the cases, nobody cares. (What is really saddening and upsetting.)

But here at EQ N many were caring, because they were personally emotionally engaged with this project.

http://www.gamona.de/games/wiped-die-mmo-woche,weil-s-einfach-keinen-spass-macht:article.html

http://www.gamona.de/games/wiped-die-mmo-woche,die-idee-lebt-weiter:article.html

 

I also wanted to point out that its not by default a bad thing to fail. It is not.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/3091287.Thomas_A_Edison

 

So why is Crowdfunding seemingly the only way to get an ambitious MMO done these days?! Star Citizen or Crowfall.

Do you need independent game developers doing their thing, what they want, to get something ambitious done these days in the gaming industry?

Because they got something they wanna really do, why the other big companys just try with the intention of making money with this?

Because the big game developer in the industry just want to make money and more money?

While the some of the independent game developer want to make a game they have in their mind and care for, and wanna be able to live from that work?

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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Yeah, SoE/Daybreak have a talent for killing games.

 

I can't believe how badly they custarded up Planetside 2. To this day it amazes me.

 

They had Everquest and Planetside. They litterally had the golden goose, and they managed to custard it up.

 

Mindblowing.

Edited by xaine

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And now Landmark is going down.  :(  Crowfall can carry the torch of the ideals that Everquest Next was trying to strive for.  We all know we wont get it from Daybreak games anytime soon.  Goodbye Landmark.  You may have been marketed wrong, and misused, but we will always remember the good times....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAlBOZwk2os

Edited by Mezcon

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Its a shame, all those great things people have built.

They arent allowed from an ethical standpoint to shut that game down. People wont accept that.

The company, Daybreak, is done for now for sure, this was the last nail into their coffin.

These people arent worth any time or money.

The world is doing better without these useless idiots.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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Its a shame, all those great things people have built.

They arent allowed from an ethical standpoint to shut that game down. People wont accept that,

The company, Daybreak, is done for now for sure, this was the last nail into their coffin.

These people arent worth any time or money.

The world is doing better without these useless idiots.

 

Ya your right.  And lets remember that there are good game developers, the little guy, who got caught up in this just trying to patch the game and do their jobs.  All the anger should be at the investment firm who is intentionally pulling this crap to get a quick buck to sell off.  This is an offense to all of the MMO community and I hope the firm gets hate mail for destroying their IPs.  I have a feeling Everquest and EQ2 will be next, and if that happens, I hope they sell off the properties to someone who gives a darn about them and wants to carry on their legacy, but...if not, oh...its gonna get ugly.  

Edited by Mezcon

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On 3/22/2016 at 6:22 AM, Urahara said:

Why is it that the attempts of the big publishers for the next really relevant step ahead in the evolution of the MMO genre are all failing, even with all their money.

Project Titan (Blizzard) and EverQuest Next (SOE/Daybreak) gave kinda the same explanations for their failing. That they made "something", and when they put that "something" together, they had to experience that the whole "bigger something" wasnt making fun.

I dont know, but to me this doesnt make the impression of a well constructed, thoughtful game creation process.

It gives me the impression of the developers all doing a bunch of different things without someone coordinating or having the overview, and then smashing it all together and looking at we have made.

So why is Crowdfunding seemingly the only way to get an ambitious MMO done these days?! Star Citizen or Crowfall.

Do you need independent game developers doing their thing, what they want, to get something ambitious done these days in the gaming industry?

Because they got something they wanna really do, why the other big companys just try with the intention of making money with this?

Because the big game developer in the industry just want to make money and more money?

While the some of the independent game developer want to make a game they have in their mind and care for, and wanna be able to live from that work?

Just noticed this thread, but as I likely have the highest (or close) post count about EQN across various sites, wanted to read what folks were saying here.

To me it seems it's just a big mess.

Beyond the first few years (~5), there haven't been any real "ambitious" MMOs, even then they weren't very ambitious beyond being a new genre and form of gaming.

That was ~15 years ago. Early games were done on much smaller budgets and did relatively well when looking at online gamer populations at the time.

Few features here and there across games have pushed things forward, but overall, no game has really done much for the genre.

Now a days, I assume that someone saying "Hey we want to make a game aimed at 0.001% of the gamer population with a product we have no market comparison for" would just be laughed at and why we see crowdfunding as the go to now. However, to get funding, devs have to hype up their untested concepts/tech which comes with another set of issues. It's a lose/lose no matter what.

There are quite a few "indie" or crowdfunded MMOs being worked on currently and who knows when any of them will actually release in a form resembling what they were hyped to be. Living up to fan expectations and making good on the hype must be a challenge.

Regardless if the devs really mean they care about the product or fans or just the money is besides the point. Getting a game funded, created, and out the door is an uphill battle.

No clue on Titan but likely they didn't see it doing nearly as well as WoW and just said screw it and made Overwatch which is great in its own way. 

EQN from everything I've read/heard was simply running on rainbows and fairy dust. No real leadership and internal drama. The AI which was the focal point never existed in a worthwhile form and the world tech was just a huge pain to get working and even then wasn't anything fancy. I would still like to see their gear and multi-class systems live on in another game one day as they actually seemed plausible. Maybe throwing money at it would eventually of produced something, but there is zero to go on that people would actually play the game and why I imagine it is hard for owners to stick with conceptual products without any numbers backing them up. At the end of the day, it is about the money.

Ashes of Creation seems like it might have a future and has a few similarities to EQN. I'll be watching it along with several others and really at this point it might just be who can get something out the door fastest. As much as devs say they are fine with 50-100k populations or whatever, we'll have to see if they really can survive on that or better yet, even reach such numbers.

Despite all the negativity that MOBAs, Survival, and other "simpler" games receive, I totally get why they are massively popular in comparison to MMOs. There is no smoke in mirrors or fairy dust hyped tech. They are straight forward, get in, have fun as long as you want, get out products. The higher quality products usually coming out on top. With the MMO population getting steadily older (at least some of us), the expectations are much higher and why we'll likely see many of these hyped to the moon games close down or never make it to launch. We and the devs are setting all of us up to be let down.

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Its gonna get sold hopefully soon, and we will get something in the end maybe.

The problem is that people are still giving them money with this king of the hill game.
Also the people playing EQ 1 and 2. People shouldnt give them anymore money, and then we will get EQ N when they sell everything.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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Doubt it, the features EQNext wanted to implement don't really work well together right now, the technology and hardware aren't there.  Maybe in 10 years they can marry all of those features.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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10 hours ago, Urahara said:

Its gonna get sold hopefully soon, and we will get something in the end maybe.

The problem is that people are still giving them money with this king of the hill game.
Also the people playing EQ 1 and 2. People shouldnt give them anymore money, and then we will get EQ N when they sell everything.

What's to sale?

No one is going to take any of the games/IPs and do anything worthwhile. Maybe if you want to see a CCG, MOBA, or mobile game? Only reason I see the company or library being bought are to make a quick buck as you've pointed out as disliking. There is no massive hit waiting in storage. It was likely already sold for as much as it was worth to the current owners and they'll likely get every cent they can.

EQ(s), PS2, DCUO are all chugging along as people apparently still love them. H1Z1 is popular for what it is, although Battlegrounds might hurt it over time depending on how development goes for both of them. Haven't paid any attention to the Zombie version. Is for SWG fans right? Smed so funny.

EQN was a pipedream for the most part. Most of the leads/minds behind it have gone on to do little interesting so far and no evidence of any of the hyped features actually working beyond Voxel Farm within Forgelight. VF not even being their tech. Beyond that, there are a few slide shows, some concept art, and whatever assets Landmark died with. Storybricks (AI) is gone. D.Mark brought his AI tech to Hero Song with Smed and that's done before it started.

I live 10 min away from Daybreak, I was tempted to "run into" one of the devs back when they went silent. I've seen them a few times in a local shopping area getting lunch, but now not worth my time even if I saw them again.

 

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8 hours ago, APE said:

What's to sale?

No one is going to take any of the games/IPs and do anything worthwhile. Maybe if you want to see a CCG, MOBA, or mobile game? Only reason I see the company or library being bought are to make a quick buck as you've pointed out as disliking. There is no massive hit waiting in storage. It was likely already sold for as much as it was worth to the current owners and they'll likely get every cent they can.

EQ(s), PS2, DCUO are all chugging along as people apparently still love them. H1Z1 is popular for what it is, although Battlegrounds might hurt it over time depending on how development goes for both of them. Haven't paid any attention to the Zombie version. Is for SWG fans right? Smed so funny.

EQN was a pipedream for the most part. Most of the leads/minds behind it have gone on to do little interesting so far and no evidence of any of the hyped features actually working beyond Voxel Farm within Forgelight. VF not even being their tech. Beyond that, there are a few slide shows, some concept art, and whatever assets Landmark died with. Storybricks (AI) is gone. D.Mark brought his AI tech to Hero Song with Smed and that's done before it started.

I live 10 min away from Daybreak, I was tempted to "run into" one of the devs back when they went silent. I've seen them a few times in a local shopping area getting lunch, but now not worth my time even if I saw them again.

 

I dont know a single worth developer who would still work for Daybreak honestly. All good people left there long time ago.

The company is dead already.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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15 hours ago, Urahara said:

I dont know a single worth developer who would still work for Daybreak honestly. All good people left there long time ago.

The company is dead already.

Eh seems to be moving along as it has for the last 14 years. Honestly can't think of any SOE/DB devs outside of a few that worked on SWG that I'd "want" working on a game that interests me (no surprise some are working on CF). On the EQN team, Mann seemed to be behind the gear/class systems somewhat which I liked in theory, but don't really know who thought up or was taking charge on anything though. Definitely not McQuaid or Smed. Company hasn't really done much in the last 14 years since SWG. Was hopeful that EQN's team might pull it off, but not surprised at all.

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41 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Darrin Mcpherson was their best developer.

What did he do with EQN itself? He seemed to have a hand in the vision/design, but honestly don't know who was behind particular hyped up features. Was also part of Vanguard so I assume he brought some of the good parts of VG with Butler, but we'll never know. Seemed like too many leaders without any leadership.

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