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ACE Q&A for March: A lot of ways to be a badass - Official discussion thread

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Good stuff! Thanks for the video!

 

I'm kind of surprised they didn't bring up the auction house trend and how it's such a problem, socially.


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I'm kind of surprised they didn't bring up the auction house trend and how it's such a problem, socially.

 

I think we can read that between the lines.  :)


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Glad to see that they covered such an important topic.

This honestly is the single reason I stopped playing MMOs, they weren't very social.  Most modern MMOs are glorified single player games, that just happened to include other people.  Where you never really play with people, only ever along side them.

At no point do they really try to engage you in multiplayer, acuminate you to social interaction, or make it even fleetingly worthwhile to do so.

Guilds are often little more then chat rooms.

 

And by feeling from multiplayer modern MMOs have undercut themselves in the core area that people go to this genre in the first place.  If I want to play a single player game, then I will play an actually single player game, rather then a crappy one that happens to be online.

If I am playing an MMO, I want it to at least occasionally shove me into multiplayer, and make me want to play with people.

 

 

One of the few better examples of a MMO doing social interactions right is FF14:ARR.  For the most part you can progress in both story and level solo, but occasionally it would just shove you into a dungeon and expect you to play with people., and progressively over the course of the story the dungeons would become more and more challenging, requiring greater levels of communication to succeed.  Of course before it even did this it acuminate you to playing with people via FATEs, public events where you usually needed multiple people to complete but often just thous who happened to be around at the time.

Generally less organized, but still requiring some group coordination.

 

In Crowfall I would expect things would work very differently, since it's PvP based rather then PvE.  I'm not yet sure how you would acuminate players to playing with each other.  Perhaps starting players out with a faction based warfare rather then guild based, something broad and simple, where coordination, tactics and communication is less important.

I think it's something that requires a great deal of thought.

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This honestly is the single reason I stopped playing MMOs, they weren't very social.  Most modern MMOs are glorified single player games, that just happened to include other people.  Where you never really play with people, only ever along side them.

 

Hey that's my line! lol

 

 

 

One of the few better examples of a MMO doing social interactions right is FF14:ARR.  For the most part you can progress in both story and level solo, but occasionally it would just shove you into a dungeon and expect you to play with people., and progressively over the course of the story the dungeons would become more and more challenging, requiring greater levels of communication to succeed.  Of course before it even did this it acuminate you to playing with people via FATEs, public events where you usually needed multiple people to complete but often just thous who happened to be around at the time.

Generally less organized, but still requiring some group coordination.

 

What you mentioned to just half of it. In the video they called this "hard social connections" because it's more of the minute to minute interactions are high and must be really strong. More "in your face" kind of interactions.

 

The other half, the part they called "soft social connections," goes on during the "down time" aka the not killing things part of the game. Vendors and stores made and supplied by crafters, scouts bringing back info/mapping (which has only been hinted at so far) and everything the EKs like being the middle man between each ring world and providing a game space for a host of social events.

 

 

In Crowfall I would expect things would work very differently, since it's PvP based rather then PvE.  I'm not yet sure how you would acuminate players to playing with each other.  Perhaps starting players out with a faction based warfare rather then guild based, something broad and simple, where coordination, tactics and communication is less important.

I think it's something that requires a great deal of thought.

 

In an open world style game that only has a few goals that push the combat forward like winning the campaign they only need to give us players the tools and space to form bonds. We won't need in-game mechanisms that point "Soft Social Connections THIS WAY!" There are already a lot of us that have come from these types or games like UO, SWG & SB. We have ideas we can't wait to explore and salivate for each new tool or game space that comes online giving us the freedom to drive the social aspects of the game forward. If given enough tools, which I don't think we could ever have enough of. even if us vets weren't here players will grab hold of these tools and build bonds based on necessity. 

 

Remember you can't get the best sword from a raid boss. Oh and your daily needs of consumable items? Yeah that will be found at your favorite local vendor! Want to get that 10% discount? Befriend her or bring her a gift of some raw resources you just plundered. 

Edited by Keaggan

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Remember you can't get the best sword from a raid boss. Oh and your daily needs of consumable items? Yeah that will be found at your favorite local vendor! Want to get that 10% discount? Befriend her or bring her a gift of some raw resources you just plundered. 

I'm definitely looking forward to playing "the vendor" every now and then. I have a feeling there will be people who troll as vendors, asking for ridiculously rare stuff in return for basic loot. Anyone who plays the latest Pokemon games, if you go onto the GTS (Global Trade Station) looking for pokemon trades you can make, good effing luck. Every basic found-in-every-stinking-game Pikachu on public trade is probably asking for an Arceus or similar legendary pokemon in return. It happens everywhere, so that aspect I'm dreading, but at least experience lets me know to expect it. It'll just make the rest of us legitimate traders look awesome ^_^

 

I'm wondering how the whole exchange will go, however. Like, if someone brings ingredients, how much should we lower the price for our service? Should their be a flat-rate that changes based on personal skill and/or end result? Will people prefer demanding loot or coin as payment? The system sounds like it'll allow for total flexibility so far, so I'm looking forward to the results!


Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


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In an open world style game that only has a few goals that push the combat forward like winning the campaign they only need to give us players the tools and space to form bonds. We won't need in-game mechanisms that point "Soft Social Connections THIS WAY!" There are already a lot of us that have come from these types or games like UO, SWG & SB. We have ideas we can't wait to explore and salivate for each new tool or game space that comes online giving us the freedom to drive the social aspects of the game forward. If given enough tools, which I don't think we could ever have enough of. even if us vets weren't here players will grab hold of these tools and build bonds based on necessity. 

 

Remember you can't get the best sword from a raid boss. Oh and your daily needs of consumable items? Yeah that will be found at your favorite local vendor! Want to get that 10% discount? Befriend her or bring her a gift of some raw resources you just plundered. 

There are ways to acuminate people into group combat that is soft and gradually becoming harder, esp since Crowfall isn't a truly open world game, but rather one that can set it's ruleset however it damn pleases.

Take for example World of Tanks.  Very first battle you will have is on the same wide flat map, everyone is using the same starter light tanks, with a very simple goal, destroy your opponents or capture their base.

 

Because of the map and the tanks that everyone has, the tactics for victory are very simple and require no team coordination.  Every other player may as well be NPCs.  The goal here is simply to get the player used to the controls, playing the game, you just happen to be doing so with and against other people.

As you rank up and get better tanks, more options become available to you, and more maps begin to show up that require a little more tactics then it did before, and your teams line up diversifies into roles.

 

Again at first communication isn't really needed, but slowly you get better at the game and figure out what you want to do, communication and tactics become more and more important.  It can start out with just doodling on the map, or pinging enemies positions, trash talk or basic communication.

Where down the far end you have tank companies, and several game modes that require differing levels of teamwork and communication.

 

 

It's a gradual slope that trains the player to work together with other people.  And I feel the Crowfall can do something similar, esp since it's campaigns can be any size or length, with any rule set.  So you could start players out on Hunger Dome like setup, with like 1 of 3 archtypes, and a simple objective that makes everyone else feel more or less like NPCs.

Then slowly open up the game letting players make more decisions and require more interactions with others.

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Im curious, what single game fearure has the most social impact in your opinion?

 

I think the in game voice chat we see in games like h1z1, day z, the diviision are the most socially engaging thing ive seen in a game. Its strange that mmos, which are supposed to be the most social game there is, doesnt have this feature


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Im curious, what single game fearure has the most social impact in your opinion?

 

I think the in game voice chat we see in games like h1z1, day z, the diviision are the most socially engaging thing ive seen in a game. Its strange that mmos, which are supposed to be the most social game there is, doesnt have this feature

 

Something that I've thought of recently as well. The survival games are better MMOs than MMOs are.


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Im curious, what single game fearure has the most social impact in your opinion?

 

I think the in game voice chat we see in games like h1z1, day z, the diviision are the most socially engaging thing ive seen in a game. Its strange that mmos, which are supposed to be the most social game there is, doesnt have this feature

I think that is a feature that has a lot of promise, but needs to have certain restrictions to prevent abuse.

Such as the ability for you to mute anybody, or mute everybody if you want. (but a default of being on)

If it's only a single person being an ass, then you not only should be able to block somebody, but also report them.  If they are reported a certain amounts of times, they are auto muted to everyone, and have to be manually unmuted if you want to listen to them.

 

And in game voice chat should have a range as well, getting quieter the further away they are from you.  Although for speeches and public addresses, there should be in game tools to amplify the speaker.  Although again in a way to minimize abuse.

 

Would be nice to go into a bustling group of players, and have it sound like crowd.  Something to help make the connection that there are indeed players behind the avatars.

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Voice chat is a good tool for team-based pvp.

 

I feel it has also had some negative effects on community (observations based on playing UO before availability of voip tech):

 

- Contributed to the escalation of guild size by allowing zergs to function, hurts server performance

 

- Contributed to the decline of active RP-PVP communities


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Voice chat is a good tool for team-based pvp.

 

I feel it has also had some negative effects on community (observations based on playing UO before availability of voip tech):

 

- Contributed to the escalation of guild size by allowing zergs to function, hurts server performance

 

- Contributed to the decline of active RP-PVP communities

I feel that zergs have less to do with the mode of communication, and more to do with how roles and group composition is designed.

For example GW2 was really bad with zergs because there was only one role really, DPS.  Every class was more or less self sufficient, none were really stronger or weaker then each other, regardless of build, and all empathized DPS over really anything else.

Tanking wasn't really possible, healing others even less so.

 

As a result it was really really easy to makes zergs and be effective.

 

 

If Crowfall want to avoid or downplay zergs, I think it has to start with their archtypes.

Fortunately the game has one huge advantage in it's corner, Vessels.  Because your not stuck with any one body, and one archtype, your not bound to the usually trinity as a basis for your roles.

 

The reason you have the trinity is that if your going to be stuck with a single character and either can't change classes, or having to start over when you do, and hence your using a single role for a very long period of time, it had better always be valuable and useful throughout the course of the game.

So when you boiled everything down, Healer, Tank and DPS are the minimum roles that will always be valuable and useful no matter what.  Which is why classes are always just a variation of these three roles.

 

 

But here, because we can conceivable change roles at a drop of a hat, means that not every role has to always be useful, they can be situational.  Such as a scout, or trapper, illusionist, etc.  Roles don't even all need to be pure combat classes, or have to fight 1v1.

While there will still be a trinity, and classes which can make a zerg possible, you could also have class that counters that kind of play.

Like a trapper making something of a minefield, or an illusionist to confuse them because of lack of organization.  Where a small group of highly organized players could conceivable beat a mindless zerg with the right niche classes.

 

Having an effective death penalty also can help in this regard.

 

 

However doing roles this way also has other benefits as well.  Such as allowing players to find roles they more identify with, which they can specialize in and play a niche role, one which may be situationally important but very gratifying, rather then the dime a dozen core roles.

I'm not yet sure how farm Artcraft will go in this direction, but they do seem to be leaning that way.  

What's important for them to do I think is to have plenty of roles that aren't strictly combat based.  That might function in and around combat, but isn't tanking, healing or dealing damage, but rather facilitating that in their allies.

Like the aforementioned Illusionist.

 

Using illusions to trick, deceive and confuse players.  Making this appear to be there when their not, or not be there when they really are.

For example tricking them into thinking that ground is solid, rather then a sheer cliff face where they will fall to their doom.  Or that this is a dead end, rather then a passage way into another room where our forces are hiding in ambush.

 

You get the idea.

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tl;dw - "Social connections is why EVE was one of the best MMOs, and is the only thing keeping it alive now.  We want to capitalize on that too."

 

 

 

 

Let's see if you can get the social systems of EVE into CF, but given the design philosophy of the game I doubt it.

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Lofty goals, very pleased to see retention and interdependence is important.........whether it can be pulled off remains to be seen but this is a good sign.


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