Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Dondagora

What kind of Siege Weapons [or Vehicles] would you like to see?

Recommended Posts

What I would like to see:

Trebs, Catas, Rams, Bali, Siege Towers, Boiling Oil, One class that can scale walls and Tunneling would be a new and exciting feature.

 

What I do not want to see:

Gliders, Anti Aerial, Golems, Tanks, Ladders, Grappling Hooks.

 

Having one class that can bypass Castle walls with climb is fine, having everyone capable of flying over the walls defeats the purpose of walls. GL trying to aim and hit someone on a glider with an archer in a non tab target game. 

 

K.I.S.S - Keep it Simple Stupid is always a good rule, don't over complicate siege offence and defense, stick to the staples. I realise this game is not like any other out there but that doesn't mean Siege itself needs to be reinvented, all it will do is add unneeded steps and frustration when it comes to siege. Use knowledge from other games, take the things that worked and use them but also take note of the things that didn't work and don't use them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I would like to see:

Trebs, Catas, Rams, Bali, Siege Towers, Boiling Oil, One class that can scale walls and Tunneling would be a new and exciting feature.

 

What I do not want to see:

Gliders, Anti Aerial, Golems, Tanks, Ladders, Grappling Hooks.

 

Having one class that can bypass Castle walls with climb is fine, having everyone capable of flying over the walls defeats the purpose of walls. GL trying to aim and hit someone on a glider with an archer in a non tab target game. 

 

K.I.S.S - Keep it Simple Stupid is always a good rule, don't over complicate siege offence and defense, stick to the staples. I realise this game is not like any other out there but that doesn't mean Siege itself needs to be reinvented, all it will do is add unneeded steps and frustration when it comes to siege. Use knowledge from other games, take the things that worked and use them but also take note of the things that didn't work and don't use them. 

 

I'd be ok-ish with ropes and ladders, if only on the basis that they are simply the easiest thing to get rid of while leaving the climbers very vulnerable. A ladder-rush would be the obvious strategy, but also likely to injure the majority, and would likely play out a little like trench warfare in which you attack in mass and try to just get one soldier into enemy territory to make way for the rest. This would create risk and cost [a number of injured and casualties along with allocating a mass of soldiers for it with a non-certain percentage of success] while offering decent reward [getting into enemy keep, possibly opening the way for victory].

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be ok-ish with ropes and ladders, if only on the basis that they are simply the easiest thing to get rid of while leaving the climbers very vulnerable. A ladder-rush would be the obvious strategy, but also likely to injure the majority, and would likely play out a little like trench warfare in which you attack in mass and try to just get one soldier into enemy territory to make way for the rest. This would create risk and cost [a number of injured and casualties along with allocating a mass of soldiers for it with a non-certain percentage of success] while offering decent reward [getting into enemy keep, possibly opening the way for victory].

If there was enough risk involved it would be ok, Siege towers would perform in this roll but would need a fair amount of supplies to build. They would also need something to deal with siege towers, maybe have a Boiling Oil depot somewhere in the keep that would replace player weapons while carrying/dumping then determine how many applications of oil it would take to burn it down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I do not want to see:

Gliders, Anti Aerial, Golems, Tanks, Ladders, Grappling Hooks.

 

Having one class that can bypass Castle walls with climb is fine, having everyone capable of flying over the walls defeats the purpose of walls.

 

That's a bit of an extreme stance, don't you think? I'm not saying "go overboard with siege tools," but... No grappling hooks? Grappling hooks are bad no matter what? Because of Crowfall's design, we already know they'd cost resources to craft. Then they'd have to be aimed from within range of the walls. THEN their ropes would have to be climbed (probably stats/skills affecting climbing speed). All the while, even if they hook the wall (grappling hookist hasn't died yet in getting within range and aiming and firing correctly), all the defenders atop the wall have to do is chop a rope. *dusts off hands*.

 

And just for one more example... Gliders of some kind. Even if the attackers somehow accumulated enough resources to construct all the gliders, they'd still have to transport/assemble them, then launch them from a high enough plateau within range of the defended structure. Then, all the defense needs is, effectively, a big shotgun to fire up at the sky. Boom. Done.

 

A thing's existence does not denote any of the specific factors of its existence. I recommend pointing out limitations and concerns, rather than saying "None of this thing that could potentially be designed with too many advantages and too few detriments."

Edited by Lephys

This post brought to you by...
Lephys. Because everything's better with a smile facepalm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a bit of an extreme stance, don't you think? I'm not saying "go overboard with siege tools," but... No grappling hooks? Grappling hooks are bad no matter what? Because of Crowfall's design, we already know they'd cost resources to craft. Then they'd have to be aimed from within range of the walls. THEN their ropes would have to be climbed (probably stats/skills affecting climbing speed). All the while, even if they hook the wall (grappling hookist hasn't died yet in getting within range and aiming and firing correctly), all the defenders atop the wall have to do is chop a rope. *dusts off hands*.

 

And just for one more example... Gliders of some kind. Even if the attackers somehow accumulated enough resources to construct all the gliders, they'd still have to transport/assemble them, then launch them from a high enough plateau within range of the defended structure. Then, all the defense needs is, effectively, a big shotgun to fire up at the sky. Boom. Done.

 

A thing's existence does not denote any of the specific factors of its existence. I recommend pointing out limitations and concerns, rather than saying "None of this thing that could potentially be designed with too many advantages and too few detriments."

I am not 100% opposed to grappling hooks, like ladders as long as the risk was there for using them. Gliders on the other hand I am 100% opposed to, as I said before without tab targeting GL having your Rangers hitting an aerial moving target. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gliders on the other hand I am 100% opposed to, as I said before without tab targeting GL having your Rangers hitting an aerial moving target.

 

Fire the flak ballistas! Let no glider through!


7111d4fea662ddcedc732a7b7c3ebe1e.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a bit of an extreme stance, don't you think? I'm not saying "go overboard with siege tools," but... No grappling hooks? Grappling hooks are bad no matter what? Because of Crowfall's design, we already know they'd cost resources to craft. Then they'd have to be aimed from within range of the walls. THEN their ropes would have to be climbed (probably stats/skills affecting climbing speed). All the while, even if they hook the wall (grappling hookist hasn't died yet in getting within range and aiming and firing correctly), all the defenders atop the wall have to do is chop a rope. *dusts off hands*.

 

And just for one more example... Gliders of some kind. Even if the attackers somehow accumulated enough resources to construct all the gliders, they'd still have to transport/assemble them, then launch them from a high enough plateau within range of the defended structure. Then, all the defense needs is, effectively, a big shotgun to fire up at the sky. Boom. Done.

 

A thing's existence does not denote any of the specific factors of its existence. I recommend pointing out limitations and concerns, rather than saying "None of this thing that could potentially be designed with too many advantages and too few detriments."

 

I'd rather gliding stick with Assassins, though the defenders don't need a shotgun to avoid gliders from coming in, they just need a couple archers or otherwise keeping an eye on the side with this high-point the gliders are jumping from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As someone already mentioned, if they could do some kind of wildfire standin, that would be great. Drench the field outside the castle with gasoline then have a confessor should at the ground until the entire playingfield ignites.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope we get something a little different than other games. It seems like every mmo with world pvp and sieging does catapults, trebuchet, rams...

 

being able to catapult people over walls, ladders, siege towers etc


MOkvLlm.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather gliding stick with Assassins, though the defenders don't need a shotgun to avoid gliders from coming in, they just need a couple archers or otherwise keeping an eye on the side with this high-point the gliders are jumping from.

My only point was that, in the hypothetical event of a boatload of gliders getting launched on your defenses, an easy counter would simply be some kind of flak cannon. They still wouldn't need one. It would simply be highly efficient.

 

There are plenty of things that wouldn't make gliders OP. It's all a matter of implementation. Same with siege weapons in general. A trebuchet is very powerful, but it's also highly (if not fully) immobile, slow-firing, and does't really handle much but walls.

 

A tool is only as good as its use. We shouldn't be saying "I don't want any of this tool in the game." We should be saying "don't implement this in a silly fashion; actually make it something thst must be used properly and comes with a host of vulnerabilities.


This post brought to you by...
Lephys. Because everything's better with a smile facepalm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My only point was that, in the hypothetical event of a boatload of gliders getting launched on your defenses, an easy counter would simply be some kind of flak cannon. They still wouldn't need one. It would simply be highly efficient.

 

There are plenty of things that wouldn't make gliders OP. It's all a matter of implementation. Same with siege weapons in general. A trebuchet is very powerful, but it's also highly (if not fully) immobile, slow-firing, and does't really handle much but walls.

 

A tool is only as good as its use. We shouldn't be saying "I don't want any of this tool in the game." We should be saying "don't implement this in a silly fashion; actually make it something thst must be used properly and comes with a host of vulnerabilities.

That last bit is untrue, if do not want to see it in game then we should definitely voice our opinion about not wanting it in game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My only point was that, in the hypothetical event of a boatload of gliders getting launched on your defenses, an easy counter would simply be some kind of flak cannon. They still wouldn't need one. It would simply be highly efficient.

 

There are plenty of things that wouldn't make gliders OP. It's all a matter of implementation. Same with siege weapons in general. A trebuchet is very powerful, but it's also highly (if not fully) immobile, slow-firing, and does't really handle much but walls.

 

A tool is only as good as its use. We shouldn't be saying "I don't want any of this tool in the game." We should be saying "don't implement this in a silly fashion; actually make it something thst must be used properly and comes with a host of vulnerabilities.

Only Fae should fly, and there needn't be any special defense, you just kill the assassins when they invade, a single fragile archetype can't overpower arranged defenders, they invade to be a nuisance.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That last bit is untrue, if do not want to see it in game then we should definitely voice our opinion about not wanting it in game.

I apologize for not qualifying that with "In instances such as this one...". That, or I should've simply said "Don't rule out entire ideas based purely on one or two crappy ways of doing them that you think of."

 

I wasn't meaning to say that no one should ever voice their desire for something to not be in the game. However, even touching on that, the reason you don't want to see something in the game is much more important than the simple fact that you don't want to see it.

Edited by Lephys

This post brought to you by...
Lephys. Because everything's better with a smile facepalm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I apologize for not qualifying that with "In instances such as this one...". Thatb or I should've simply said "Don't rule out entire ideas based purely on one or two crappy ways of doing them that you think of."

 

I wasn't meaning to say that no one should ever voice their desire for something to not be in the game. However, even touching on that, the reason you don't want to see something in the game is much more important than the simple fact that you don't want to see it.

 

Let me see if I can give you a better "why" on disliking gliders.

 

Via AA experience:

 

When you've got the advantage and they (they being the other team) don't have that many ranged players, gliders can overwhelm your opponents. You can get to the opponent's backline in record time which causes an even greater tip in the scales. In sieges, gliders could overwhelm a certain part of the castle and then you're pretty much fighting open field with people gliding in (what's the point of walls etc?). I'm guessing all of these issues would be compounded due to the lack of tab targeting.

 

Anti air you say? well, I've got experience with that too! So you have a group of 20-30 guys gliding in when, wham! A single guy on a flak cannon causes half of them to dismount mid air and take severe fall damage. Now half your group is near death and is about to get cleared by the neckbeard mage who is laughing hysterically behind his keyboard while channeling an aoe. The other half? getting overwhelmed and whittled away.

 

You rinse and repeat and eventually your guys are like... well, what's the point of gliders? That is, unless you're already winning and have a foothold. Then you can glide reinforcements over the walls willy-nilly and push the advantage.

 

It gets old. 

Edited by UnleashTheKraken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@UnleashTheKraken:

 

To illustrate the gaps in such a line of deduction, I'll tell you why I don't like having damage in a game. Some class is always gonna deal way too much damage. Then the devs'll nerf it, and it'll do too little damage, and people will say "why even bother with that class?". So obviously if we make sure damage isn't in the game, those problems will be avoided. Right? Excellent.

 

Do you see how that doesn't work? Something as general as the sheer ability to glide in some unspecified capacity does not beget an extremely specific set of adjustments that don't work. Maybe a clearer example than damage is attack range. We don't say "I don't wanna see ranged attacks in this game." No... We discuss ways to avoid kiting, and ideaologies to get ranged attacks to play nicely with the other mechanics. Why? Because ranged attacks are fun and neat and can add a lot to the game's tactics and depth.

 

I'm not saying there's no reason not to have gliders in the game. Just that "such-and-such adjustments would result in their being horrible" is not a reason to rule them out.


This post brought to you by...
Lephys. Because everything's better with a smile facepalm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...