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IdeaMatrix

Why you shouldn't be a necromancer.

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When ACE released information about the eternal crow system people became drunk with the idea of crafting vessels. Necromancy, the crafting skill that's needed to craft vessels gives a strong sense of nostalgia. Hearkening back to games like Everquest and Diablo, it gives people a sense of power and invokes the inner god complex in us all. If everybody needs a body, what could be better than playing god? Surely, I'll never run out of customers...
 

The real problem with necromancy is supply and demand. In Crowfall, the demand for high end crafted vessels will be there...initially. In the first few months of the game, people will still be finishing training on their favorite archetype. Up until this point they will buy low to mid tier vessels in order to maximize their potential stats. Since training is passive, everybody will have the same power curve and vessels will be in high demand. Eventually, people will master their favorite vessel and go looking for their favorite necromancer to provide them with the best of the best in meat suits. After they spend their fortune on their new legendary tier champion vessel, they will go looking for a new campaign to win. They say, "Man, I've got the best gear so I want to play in the DREGS!." Unfortunately, that's now how this game works my young friend! In order to show off your nice new body, you're going to be stuck in one of the high import difficulties like God's Reach.

 

Here's where it gets tricky for necromancers.

 

In order to craft the best of the best in vessels, you will have to go into no-import campaigns such as the ones in the Dregs and not only find and farm the resources but, then you have to win the campaign in order to export your goods. This isn't a viable business plan for crafters, especially if you want to keep up with the leveling power curve and maximize your profit. Okay, so then what about just trading for or buying the resources and then selling your vessel with a mark-up? Well, what do Dregs players value? They can't use your gear because they have no import and they have no real use for gold (unless they happen to be building an EK). So, that really only leaves friends and guild members for a reliable supplier. So, if your guild members are supplying you with resources to make an amazing vessel, then who do you think is going to want the vessel? Not only that but, probably with a deep guild discount. 

 

So, now you've spent months training your craft and you're a master necromancer and you've been relegated to guild peon. You have a few coins in your bank and a sense of pride in your work but, that's about it. Meanwhile that druid in the EK next to you has 1 point into blacksmith and he's selling crap tier swords made out of crap tier resources that he gets by the ton for 3 copper a pop and he's got a Scrooge McDuck bank vault full of gold that he swims in while his vendors do all the work.

 

Moral of the story here is, if you want to make a profit leave the Necro work to the guild peon. Choose a profession that has high turnover and simple materials. If you want to deal in quality instead of quantity then pick a profession with low initial cost or a niche skill that nobody wants to play. May I suggest being a bowcraft/fletcher and making arrows for rangers? What about crafting furniture for EKs?

 

Make decisions based on efficiency and planning, not because it sounds cool.

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Make decisions based on efficiency and planning, not because it sounds cool.

 

Sometimes you just do something because it's fun and cool. It's called life.


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<snip>

 

Moral of the story here is, if you want to make a profit leave the Necro work to the guild peon. 

 

 

Or make and sell the vessels where they will be needed and used the most -- in campaigns. 

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Just an opinion.. but if you, as a necromancer, are being supplied materials for a top quality vessel by a guildmate, why would you charge them for making it?

 

Crowfall will be a guild game. People WILL have to specialize, thier aren't going to be necromancers that do it cause it's "cool" ... that will be more of a hassle to solo it.

 

Will it be profitable to solo from the EK? Not so much... CW's will be a Necromancer playground.

 

Heck, a necromancer could sell his wares on one account while another ganks n' banks them in the CWs.

 

You may be over reacting or not. We won't really know how all these mechanics work till the first CW test.

Edited by Kiro Elmarok

[TB] The Balance
Nation of Equilibrium

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This entire thread is based on an incorrect assumption. 

 

Not all Dregs campaigns will be zero import. They will be limited for sure, moreso than the other bands, but there will absolutely be Dregs campaigns that allow importing of at least one vessel. It will be some time, however, before anyone can even take advantage of the benefits of a high quality vessel.

 

The cynic in me thinks this thread was created in an effort to eliminate the competition, not because the premise actually has any merit.

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The cynic in me thinks this thread was created in an effort to eliminate the competition, not because the premise actually has any merit.

 

Exactly my thoughts as well.


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This entire thread is based on an incorrect assumption. 

 

Not all Dregs campaigns will be zero import. They will be limited for sure, moreso than the other bands, but there will absolutely be Dregs campaigns that allow importing of at least one vessel. It will be some time, however, before anyone can even take advantage of the benefits of a high quality vessel.

 

The cynic in me thinks this thread was created in an effort to eliminate the competition, not because the premise actually has any merit.

You could be right. I may be generating demand for my own goods by restricting access...or maybe I want you to make a necromancer so I don't have to compete with you in another skill....

 

Of course it could just be that I made this thread as content for a forum that doesn't see much content. Maybe the generation of views and replies to crafting topics is a general boost to the economy.

 

Who knows, maybe I just want to see the world burn.

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The real problem with necromancy is supply and demand. In Crowfall, the demand for high end crafted vessels will be there...initially. In the first few months of the game, people will still be finishing training on their favorite archetype. Up until this point they will buy low to mid tier vessels in order to maximize their potential stats. Since training is passive, everybody will have the same power curve and vessels will be in high demand. Eventually, people will master their favorite vessel and go looking for their favorite necromancer to provide them with the best of the best in meat suits. After they spend their fortune on their new legendary tier champion vessel, they will go looking for a new campaign to win. They say, "Man, I've got the best gear so I want to play in the DREGS!." Unfortunately, that's now how this game works my young friend! In order to show off your nice new body, you're going to be stuck in one of the high import difficulties like God's Reach.

 

Here's where it gets tricky for necromancers.

 

In order to craft the best of the best in vessels, you will have to go into no-import campaigns such as the ones in the Dregs and not only find and farm the resources but, then you have to win the campaign in order to export your goods. This isn't a viable business plan for crafters, especially if you want to keep up with the leveling power curve and maximize your profit. Okay, so then what about just trading for or buying the resources and then selling your vessel with a mark-up? Well, what do Dregs players value? They can't use your gear because they have no import and they have no real use for gold (unless they happen to be building an EK). So, that really only leaves friends and guild members for a reliable supplier. So, if your guild members are supplying you with resources to make an amazing vessel, then who do you think is going to want the vessel? Not only that but, probably with a deep guild discount.

 

So, now you've spent months training your craft and you're a master necromancer and you've been relegated to guild peon. You have a few coins in your bank and a sense of pride in your work but, that's about it. Meanwhile that druid in the EK next to you has 1 point into blacksmith and he's selling crap tier swords made out of crap tier resources that he gets by the ton for 3 copper a pop and he's got a Scrooge McDuck bank vault full of gold that he swims in while his vendors do all the work.

 

Moral of the story here is, if you want to make a profit leave the Necro work to the guild peon. Choose a profession that has high turnover and simple materials. If you want to deal in quality instead of quantity then pick a profession with low initial cost or a niche skill that nobody wants to play. May I suggest being a bowcraft/fletcher and making arrows for rangers? What about crafting furniture for EKs?

 

Make decisions based on efficiency and planning, not because it sounds cool.

Wow. It's weird to see a dev make those kinds of comments. Oh, wait, you're not developer. You're just someone making up worst case scenarios and acting like Nostradamus. Your post could have been made about almost any crafting skill, because they have the same limitations: the best resources come from the higher bands, but players from those bands face import restrictions making high end items less useful to them. If resources are to hard to come by or too common, crafters won't make money. You can't make money selling to guildmates. How about saving the doom and gloom until we get actual crafting information?

 

TL;DR You know nothing Jon Snow

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From the AMA Today:

 

[–]zenjah07
 
I am wondering if Dregs players can expect to see campaigns that allow Imports at some point.
A long time ago I asked about that and the reply was that Import is just one of the "knobs" that can be changed for campaigns, which I took to mean that it would be reasonable to expect Imports at some point for Dregs campaigns.
I've also seen contradictory statements from ACE, such as "you could always stick with the Shadow or the Dregs and be guaranteed equal footing."
Is "guaranteed equal footing" a design principle for the Shadow and the Dregs? Or is that just a knob that isn't married to any band?
Should Dregs players save up their Exports for an eventual Dregs campaign with Imports?

 

 

 

[–]Jtoddcoleman ArtCraft Ent. Creative Director
 
yeah, I can see how that is confusing. it's a knob for all campaigns. the "guarantee" wasn't mean to say "we won't ever use that knob", it was "you will have options where the knob is turned to zero." The real answer on this one is: it's up to you guys. We will come up with various campaign settings and offer them up, and then you (the players) will decide which ones you want to play. If the players WANT dregs rules with some import, then sure, we'll give it to you. If the players don't want that, then we'll turn the knobs and give you the settings that you do want.

 

 

So it is entirely possible that Dregs campaigns will see import later on. So I wouldn't write off being a necromancer just yet.

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From the AMA Today:

 

 

 

So it is entirely possible that Dregs campaigns will see import later on. So I wouldn't write off being a necromancer just yet.

Really it's a question of durability vs demand. In real life, if you make a product that lasts 20 years, people will only buy 1 of your product. If you make a product that lasts 1 year, people will buy your product 20 times.

 

Vessels are going to be a premium commodity. They will probably be the most expensive item in the game and for players that want to keep them, they have the option of keeping them forever. If everybody in the game makes a necromancer but, only a handful of people profit from the profession, people will become unsatisfied with the game. It's not even a design flaw necessarily but, an imbalance of expectation.

 

Players will spend time training necromancy because it sounds cool and because the idea behind it is fun and potentially complex. Then they will realize that they can't compete with the high end guilds who have a steady supply of rare materials. The high end guilds will provide better pricing because it takes less effort for them. If you specialize in a crafting skill that has high demand and low barrier to entry, you may not make a fortune but, you will make a living.

 

Basically the premium on your time is not worth the premium in price unless you have a team of people that are helping you.

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They will probably be the most expensive item in the game and for players that want to keep them, they have the option of keeping them forever.

 

Vessels will not last forever. It is a basic principal of the economy that items break. Vessels decay and can be repaired but, just like that legendary set of armor that you love-love, you can't repair them forever. To keep the same avatar you will need a necromancer to make a matching vessel for you.

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Even if someone has the best of the best vessel, that does not mean every part can be salvaged. Some people might do very well being the scavengers a necromancer will need. For all we know, we can use the drops from PvE and PvP mobs to craft the parts for a vessel. If this is the case, the drops from such critters will get better as the campaign goes on.

For now, without Dev input, crafting in beta or a real prophet, I'll just wait impatiently and see.

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Make crappy vessels and sell them to the opposing forces to your guild :)

ehh that would be a bad idea, even crappy vessels are better than nothing, and its not like you can force them to use the crappy vessels unless they deem it necessary for the situation they are in...

Edited by Gummiel

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Roving bands of thugs will need vessels in the Dregs ... make friends.  Bend the knee and take your loot home and sell more vessels in your EK.  Rinse, Repeat.


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ehh that would be a bad idea, even crappy vessels are better than nothing, and its not like you can force them to use the crappy vessels unless they deem it necessary for the situation they are in...

Not if u force them into the ubalancen and weaker classes around :)


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