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UI Update: What's new, what's coming - Official discussion thread


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Nice video Billy ! I like the way it loks now, specially the full preview with the camera still showing the action so you can avoid being ambushed while looking for a more good looking armor.

 

What? tell me you're not all fashion victim too in MMOS !

yeah that's actually a really nice touch I think. Most games just have a default background based on your characters race or faction. But being able to still see the action around you is pretty clever, IMO.

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UIs GALORE!     Preview of a production file. I am trying all sorts. Stay tuned.  

Here's something I threw together that IMO   - keeps chat box up to talk and link - can mouse around your character to view as you change gear (full screen dev version might do this too?) - shows

I agree with canth, i icons are nice on their own in a large view but as a small icon at the bottom of your screen in the heat of battle they're not as good.   There is so much going on with a weapo

It was more of a joke, the inventory / paperdoll screen came off as console-ish to me. Brings back memories of ESO core test, when they eventually announced console support.

Oh... Well then... The new UI looks sleeker at least and I would like to see how CF plays on a gamepad

Edited by coolster50

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yeah that's actually a really nice touch I think. Most games just have a default background based on your characters race or faction. But being able to still see the action around you is pretty clever, IMO.

How is covering 100% of the live screen and then re showing you a small fraction of it a good idea?!

 

Oh... Well then... The new UI looks sleeker at least and I would like to see how CF plays on a console

People are joking but this is the same thing at happened to eso and it is NOT funny.1 step forward with combat and 10000000000 steps back with consoles Edited by Ziz

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I love updates from Billy.  Great stuff!  Some of these changes are perfect examples of design principles where small tweaks yield huge results.

 

My $0.02 about the UI.

  • The compass in the top middle works well
  • I like the ability tree being simplified
  • The icon colors are awesome
  • The ranger icons themselves are too intricate and homogeneous.  I can't tell them apart easily :(
  • I like the wrap-around health/mana bars in your screenshot
  • I've always hated the color of the health bar - it reminds me of chewed up mint gum
  • On the topic, some of the ability bars are too similar in color
  • I like the fullscreen character/inventory layout.  I think modular windows can be better, but they take a lot more polish to get right

Thanks for sharing!  This is the kind of stuff I love to see.

Nazdar

Proud member of The Hunger

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UIs GALORE!     Preview of a production file. I am trying all sorts. Stay tuned.

 

12674691_963925983714414_73538562_n.jpg?

 

The answer to this is YES! Can we have them all? We all have different preferences on how we absorb information. Having the curved Health/Stamina/Mana around the reticle is some player's jam. While other like it around the body. Still some like it to the side or near other relevant information like skills team stats or enemies. 

 

Also adding a transparency/brightness slider goes along way.

 

Could we also get a function that I can click a bar and choose my own colors from a color wheel? 

 

Yes that is definitely a concern. We are not really trying to obscure anything specific on screen with the full screen UI so I can see us either anchoring the panels to the edges and moving based on your resolution, or alternatively keeping everything centered and just showing you more of the game around the edges. 

 

Optimizing for aspects and resolutions will come at some point - there's no silver bullet so we will just need to muscle through. This feedback is really helpful though. How many in our community have an ultrawide or trimonitor set up?

 

Full screen is fine as long as we have the option to "pop out" any and all parts of the inventory, stats, skills, etc. I personally play with two screens now, one for the game and the other for web stuff and voice chat. I don't know if I'll upgrade to a third one or just invest in 2 ultra wides. Despite all of this when I had just one monitor I always enjoyed the option to open up only specific parts of a menu AND the ability to go full screen for when I was in a safe place and wanted to do "deeper maintenance" on my character. Options based on intuitive thinking and quick button functionality should always be the goal. Obviously thats easier said than done so we'll just keep giving feedback :)

 

Lastly the icons...love the idea behind adding the archetype and feel it's the right direction to explore. Currently though they are WAY TO BUSY. Some feel "we'll just get used to it and memorize out abilities" but if that's all we cared about I'm sure they'd be ok with just random abstract symbols and words. I guess I'm different and feel that an artist reinforcing powers, skills and abilities though icons adds to the gaming experience. Speaking of Gilgamer had the same though as I did about increasing the contrast to figures and make them less detailed silhouette. They look great UP CLOSE but in play they feel like white noise to my eyes. Just blurring together. 

 

Keep it up and good job on your hard work!

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The other motivator is creating a hard separation between activities to reduce visual and mental clutter. So character equipment, powers and skill management is not a shared activity with running around the world, etc.

Why do you not want that to happen? What's bad about that?

7ug90hM.png


 


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How is covering 100% of the live screen and then re showing you a small fraction of it a good idea?! I feel like i taking crazy pills

 

 

Because its better then showing 0%? Just saying its a nice addition to a feature that usually shows 0% of the "live" screen.

 

Besides you really haven't given any compelling reasons why its bad idea. You just don't like it for some reason, which is fine but then like has been said you don't have to use it all the time or when in a combat zone. You can still swap and manage your gear with the smaller inventory windows.

Edited by pang
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Because its better then showing 0%? Just saying its a nice addition to a feature that usually shows 0% of the "live" screen.

 

Besides you really haven't given any compelling reasons why its bad idea. You just don't like it for some reason, which is fine but then like has been said you don't have to use it all the time or when in a combat zone. You can still swap and manage your gear with the smaller inventory windows.

A compelling reason?

- 100% of the screen is covered

- a lot of it is wasted space

- It adds to the clunky feel of the game

- its immersion breaking

- it looks ugly

- No benefit for it being that large

- its wasted development time while making it worse

 

There is litteraly nothing good i can say about the full screen character window.

 

Doesnt your own post show how bad it is, when the defence is... "you dont have to use it..." Implying it is detrimental, bad, a hinderance.

 

They created a huge problem by covering the screen and not letting you see whats going on around you... And to "fix" this they added a small "live" look window.... just DONT create the problem in the first place?

 

 

 

This is why i asked what the real reason is because there always seems to be a "real" reason they dont tell us... Like "we made this change because it has to work with consoles" that way i can tailor my feedback on how to make it better

Edited by Ziz

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Why do you not want that to happen? What's bad about that?

I am also very curious to hear a response to this. I don't like it when developers assume that I don't know how to multitask.

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Because its better then showing 0%? Just saying its a nice addition to a feature that usually shows 0% of the "live" screen.

 

Besides you really haven't given any compelling reasons why its bad idea. You just don't like it for some reason, which is fine but then like has been said you don't have to use it all the time or when in a combat zone. You can still swap and manage your gear with the smaller inventory windows.

Actually showing 0% is better, since the point of fullscreen is to show more information, the current design you still have to scroll through stats because of the amount of screen real estate being taken up by the character view and wasted space. If you want to show the information and also your character/gameworld it is just better to use windows.  Widows also make it less jarring to get back into the action quickly, when you need to.  Fullscreen also creates problems with chat windows, which either won't be shown, or will obscure the information you are looking at.

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A compelling reason?

- 100% of the screen is covered

- a lot of it is wasted space.

- It adds to the clunky feel of the game

- its immersion breaking

- it looks ugly

- No benefit for it being that large

- its wasted development time while making it worse

 

There is litteraly nothing good i can say about the full screen character window.

 

Doesnt your own post show how bad it is, when the defence is... "you dont have to use it..." Implying it is detrimental, bad, a hinderance.

 

They created a huge problem by covering the screen and not letting you see whats going ln around you... And to "fix" this they added a small "live" look window.... just DONT create the problem in the first place?

 

 

 

This is why i asked what the real reason is because there always seems to be a "real" reason they dont tell us... Like "we made this change because it has to work with consoles" that way i can tailor my feedback on how to make it better

I guess when I said compelling reasons, I meant actual reasons that are detrimental to the function of the game. Most if not all you listed are simply cosmetic personal preferences. This also isn't a new feature for these games, you've played other MMOs I can assume so did you also have the same negative reactions in those games to?

 

The point I made about not having to use it all the time was simply stating that if you don't like it personally you don't have to use it as much, its not the only way to manage your gear and character. That goes back to again personal preference and not at all a reference to the feature being good or bad. All these games have features we may not like as much but it doesn't mean they are just bad features outright.

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A compelling reason?

 

There is litteraly nothing good i can say about the full screen character window.

 

Doesnt your own post show how bad it is, when the defence is... "you dont have to use it..." Implying it is detrimental, bad, a hinderance.

 

They created a huge problem by covering the screen and not letting you see whats going ln around you... And to "fix" this they added a small "live" look window.... just DONT create the problem in the first place?

 

 

 

This is why i asked what the real reason is because there always seems to be a "real" reason they dont tell us... Like "we made this change because it has to work with consoles" that way i can tailor my feedback on how to make it better

 

Wow, conspiracy much?

 

We don't have a plan (nor the resources) for console.   Will we ever?  Maybe.  but right now, we don't.  and there is a good chance that, if we ever do console, we would have to re-do most of the UI, anyway. The idea of porting to console isn't driving this decision. 

 

I get that you don't like it, but this a matter of your opinion.  "I don't agree with their reasons" doesn't equate to "there must be some secret evil reason they aren't telling me."

 

There are some pros and some cons.  Pros: it's clean, it maximizes space, and it makes a clear, obvious differentiation between "mouse mode" and "target mode".  Those are all fair points, whether you agree with them or not.

 

Will we stick with it?  I don't know, yet.  Maybe.  We felt it was worth trying, to see how we like it.

 

Todd

ACE

 

J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

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On 3/24/2016 at 4:15 PM, Ziz said:

People are joking but this is the same thing at happened to eso and it is NOT funny.1 step forward with combat and 10000000000 steps back with consoles

 

T

 

 

Edited by Effeh
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Actually showing 0% is better, since the point of fullscreen is to show more information, the current design you still have to scroll through stats because of the amount of screen real estate being taken up by the character view and wasted space. If you want to show the information and also your character/gameworld it is just better to use windows.  Widows also make it less jarring to get back into the action quickly, when you need to.  Fullscreen also creates problems with chat windows, which either won't be shown, or will obscure the information you are looking at.

 

You make a good point with the stat scroll window. Right now its default state is to be compact while showing the highest level stats and attributes. What is not shown, but will come online soon, is the fully expanded version that slides up to show more stats at time. 

 

I hear the comments about wasted space and such, but think of the current layout and its components as "temporary parking". I can see the arrangement and area proportions changing as we fine tune the game and clean up the interface. The original concept shown in the video shows a very different layout of the same elements.

 

That's what I am seeing as the benefit with the takeover approach for the time being. It gives us enough real estate to experiment and figure out the best balance without disrupting the design updates in the Combat HUD.  

Billy Garretsen - UX Design Lead, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc. 

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With the UI getting a nice overhaul will there be colour blind modes for us colour impaired people?  I have troubles distinguishing Red and Greens when they are close together and they blend into one solid colour (Deuteranopia).  

 

Is there plans to introduce these modes with the final UI?

Edited by Weebles

Official Moderator of the Community Crowfall Discord!  Come join the discussion @ https://discord.me/crowfall

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You make a good point with the stat scroll window. Right now its default state is to be compact while showing the highest level stats and attributes. What is not shown, but will come online soon, is the fully expanded version that slides up to show more stats at time. 

 

I hear the comments about wasted space and such, but think of the current layout and its components as "temporary parking". I can see the arrangement and area proportions changing as we fine tune the game and clean up the interface. The original concept shown in the video shows a very different layout of the same elements.

 

That's what I am seeing as the benefit with the takeover approach for the time being. It gives us enough real estate to experiment and figure out the best balance without disrupting the design updates in the Combat HUD.  

 

Yeah, wasted space was not great feedback since this is a work in progress and that any full screen mode is going to have the various components more seamlessly connected with better ratios in the "final" product.    My primary issue is that, if I am going fullscreen I want all the information I can get about what I am doing in that screen, and don't need that window into the game world, and honestly would rather have that space be dedicated to chat.  I am also just more used to a windowed approach to gearing/inventory management, with the fullscreen being more reserved for skill trees and ability management.

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Talk about controller support does make me a little nervous. I'd rather the game require a level of aim such that playing with a  controller is impractical, and enough buttons to press that it's impossible to fit them on an xbox controller. It seems odd for a sandbox corpse loot PVP conquest game whose audience 999/1000 times is going to use KB+M to cater to controller use at all, but that might just be me being a fuddy duddy.

 

For people who do want to play Crowfall or other PC games with a controller for some reason I recommend giving the Steam Controller a try if you aren't afraid to blow 50 bucks on something you might hate.

 

I picked it up just to play emulated N64 and GC games and for me it's worth it just for that, but the trackpad + gyro aiming does a pretty good job at approaching the mouse in terms of precision and functionality with practice and some configuration. You can also use something called mode shifting to bind a ton more actions than a normal controller. Here's a video of how one of the common aiming configs works if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B43ibnztDLc

 

Think the main point that seems to get missed is that they are not catering to gamepad controllers. They are first and foremost making a KB+mouse game. Controller support or rather the ease of support is simply a by product of sorts by the type of UI and combat system being made. Will there likely be a keybind and options interface for controllers, likely yes but again it doesn't take away from the Core of the game which is KB+Mouse.

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People are joking but this is the same thing at happened to eso and it is NOT funny.1 step forward with combat and 10000000000 steps back with consoles

Sorry, meant gamepad. Stupid typos...

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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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With the UI getting a nice overhaul will there be colour blind modes for us colour impaired people?  I have troubles distinguishing Red and Greens when they are close together and they blend into one solid colour (Deuteranopia).  

 

Is there plans to introduce these modes with the final UI?

 

Yes, we have already begun to discuss this topic as accessibility is a big focus in UI. Along with key/control mapping, we are planning for color options to help those members of the audience get the visual feebdack they need to enjoy the game. Color in general is a tough one to jump right into since much is dependent on external factors like Monitor settings and such, but we have already started the conversation. 

 

Someone else asked about custom UI color settings and that is also part of this conversation. Scale, Position, Rotation, Shape and Color are all likely to be properties in the UI customization menu when it comes online. 

Billy Garretsen - UX Design Lead, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc. 

[Personal Portfolio]

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You make a good point with the stat scroll window. Right now its default state is to be compact while showing the highest level stats and attributes. What is not shown, but will come online soon, is the fully expanded version that slides up to show more stats at time. 

 

I hear the comments about wasted space and such, but think of the current layout and its components as "temporary parking". I can see the arrangement and area proportions changing as we fine tune the game and clean up the interface. The original concept shown in the video shows a very different layout of the same elements.

 

That's what I am seeing as the benefit with the takeover approach for the time being. It gives us enough real estate to experiment and figure out the best balance without disrupting the design updates in the Combat HUD.

 

As much information at our fingertips with the least amount of scrolling I assume is everyone's goal. Some have a higher tolerance than others so finding a place where most are are comfortable with it or at least is tolerable to not really complain about it anymore is the sweet spot. 

 

Instead of writing out a list of every aspect I'm looking for I think dropping some examples of UIs that the devs could draw from would be better. Heck you all may have already been looking at these and it just takes time to implement them. 

 

First: 

 

diabloIII3.jpg

 

We have a lot of information available with minimal scrolling and it sits on top of live play. Each part is also modular so you can open up as much or as little you personally need. Very efficient design.

 

Next one isn't the best because you need to open multiple windows though they still keep the popup window theme. 

 

SWTOR-Outfit-Designer-hands-on-1.jpg

 

Yeah, wasted space was not great feedback since this is a work in progress and that any full screen mode is going to have the various components more seamlessly connected with better ratios in the "final" product.    My primary issue is that, if I am going fullscreen I want all the information I can get about what I am doing in that screen, and don't need that window into the game world, and honestly would rather have that space be dedicated to chat.  I am also just more used to a windowed approach to gearing/inventory management, with the fullscreen being more reserved for skill trees and ability management.
 
And finally YES! If I'm going full screen in-depth menus give me the option to drop the paper doll viewing and give me MORE information and tools.
Edited by Keaggan
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