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No Full Loot Drop = Bots Everywhere


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Everyone has made a lot of valid points that it left me pondering... 

 

Having visited China and walked into an internet cafe full of gold farmers/sellers I think there will always be bots/farms/etc.  I don't think the goal of the game should be to completely eliminate it.  They would waste too many resources and perhaps be forced into solutions that would in turn effect other gameplay mechanics simply trying to prevent something that I feel is unpreventable.  

 

The key is mitigation, and should be the focus.  Mitigation can be had in many different manners as folks have already eluded to.  A good customer support system that allows the reporting/banning of bots, the ability of player intervention of bots/farmers making it lease profitable, etc.  This, in my opinion, is what should be focused on.

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I'd totally do this with you.

This is why sandbox games are good.    If you find a bot, you and kill them and take their stuff.

If I kill a bot, do I get a cool robotic head to mount on my wall or my battlements? 

 

I am hoping Crowfall does go beyond that of every other MMO. I been waiting for that game for ten years now. As some here have some of the answers they need. The very idea of giving the players the power. Is simply brillant. Those players can hunt down and kill bots, even better. No reporting needed, no endless reading by Mods or Admins of endless reports, that have to be checked and double checked.

 

The idea of giving power to player is elegant in its simplicity. Thing is for some reason a lot of developers do not see player as a part of the system. But if player encouraged by the very game mechanic to kick away cheaters from a game, if it will become important enough the players will make it happen without developers have to pull all the weight.

 

The down side is finding the balance for Griefing. PVP and other factors.

 

No argument here. Some people take game really to heart because of emotional connection and investment, so it is a problem.

 

Making any MMO isn't easy. I know, I attempted for five years to make one. To make the MMO I think we all wish to see and play, well I am hoping that Crowfall is that one. We can only hope that they can deliver on that promise.

 

That's why I think making solid groundwork in regard of bots is so important. Indeed there should be game mechanisms that hinder boting drastically. And let us help. Making a game of this scope indeed is no easy task so I say let us players lend you a hand. We'll sort out what we can. Though I understand that a lot of people would like not to help but exploit the same mechanics.

 

We'll see how it turn out. ArtCraft developers have very solid experience behind them. Whether this game will be for me or not I watch new information with great interest.

 

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Having visited China and walked into an internet cafe full of gold farmers/sellers I think there will always be bots/farms/etc.  I don't think the goal of the game should be to completely eliminate it.  They would waste too many resources and perhaps be forced into solutions that would in turn effect other gameplay mechanics simply trying to prevent something that I feel is unpreventable.  

 

I agree. Non-bot farming is fine. It is honest gameplay based on earning riches. What player does with his earnings is his own business. Besides, these people earn a living this way. RMT is another thing, but I do not see legal means to counter it. I am not lawyer, but I know that it is while another legal field and fighting RMT is if not useless then is very much past the point.

 

I don't care if someone makes the game I play a business venture. I care when bots start ruining server economy and players abandoning crafting and other challenges that bots overcome much easier then human.

 

The key is mitigation, and should be the focus.  Mitigation can be had in many different manners as folks have already eluded to.  A good customer support system that allows the reporting/banning of bots, the ability of player intervention of bots/farmers making it lease profitable, etc.  This, in my opinion, is what should be focused on.

 

Yes, but do you have any way how we should do it? So far: system that allows to gank bots (that allows to gank anyone). Anything else? Because I have no ideas, besides Britus' proposition on economy. Obviously that's not players' field, so I am out.

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You have to be careful with that full loot crap... To what I once again BELIEVE this game to be, it will be a mmoRPG. This means keeping some RPG elements into the game. Most RPG elements involve ways to get those epic gears and what not. Investing a couple of hours to obtain that FullMegaPwningAxe to lose it in 3 minutes isn't tempting to the RPG players.

 

This would just lead to no one investing in getting uber gears anymore and actually turn the game in a pure PvP game with no RPG elements into it.

 

Also, you have to be careful about even the 'bag loot' on death. 1 of the annoying thing of a game that allows it is the inequality of risk versus reward between the PvPer and the farmer. The person who just runs the area to kill people and loot them is usually not having anything in his bag. His risk suddenly is 0 of losing anything while the farmer has all his hardwork at risk.

 

More over, the farmer, if feeling like he has an odd of dieing, has all the valid reasons to actually try to dodge that PvP instead of embrace it for the fun that it brings. Why would someone who has no possible reward but a big possible risk would take those odds.. Sounds much better to just run away, hence, once again reducing PvP instead of increasing it.

 

The last point that I actually dislike about 'looting' others is that it encourage high level players to grief lower level players. The risk of going in low level zones and killing those low level players trying to gain levels and wealth is very minimal as they are low level and you know what, you actually have a reward of looting their corpse.

 

Quite frankly, I would prefer to see the game not being free and them banning credit cards used to create the bot account. The fact that it now cost them money to run bots reduces their effectiveness and the fact that they need a new credit card for every bot getting cought makes it extremely unconvenient in the end.

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Well WoW is also 90% bots that you see out in the world and in BGs its like 70% bots these days... not sure if full loot is the solution tho but people normally dosnt bot that mutch in full loot games.. but people will still bot the "safe" stuff 

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I've worked in the online gaming industry for several years now, on a variety of (gasp! horror!) f2p titles, many from Korea or Asia. I've seen more bots, and more systems designed to fight bots and botting, both as player and publisher, than I would guess most people around.

 

Bots are a problem indeed, but bots are a merely a symptom. 

 

Players dislike grinding because grinding isn't fun. (Yes little Timmy, I know you have no issue farming the same spot for hours and hours but I can assure you that you are not the norm). Any game that has a grinding mechanic built in in order to extend content artificially (which is all that most grinding is) will have people attempting to bot to bypass this. Players are always looking for the easy way out. Perhaps not you, or me, or most of the people reading this, but once a game goes live the bots arrive. Suggestions in this thread so far, from IP blocks to credit card requirements are merely band-aids, not real solutions. All of those have been done before, and none really work. Full-loot is interesting, but that moves the defence to the legit players, and while many would be willing to help even more just want to play. 

 

You can implement filters in the registration process, you can monitor game activity to detect botting patterns, you can scan game clients for .dll injections or other interesting things, or monitor the packets between the client and the server for modified packets, use a heartbeat system... and you will still lose. Not that I want to sound too negative, but...

 

The only way to avoid botting is in the design of the game itself. You will never be completely bot-free, but you can certainly make botting a non-viable option, via crafting requirements, gameplay mechanics in the way resources are gathered, in the way gear is acquired and used, in the way the Auction House, if any, is set up, in the way the game currency is implemented... I'm not a developer, so no doubt they have their own ideas on how to achieve this, and I hope that this is the path that Crowfall will take, rather than trying to cure the symptom with a band-aid.

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More over, the farmer, if feeling like he has an odd of dieing, has all the valid reasons to actually try to dodge that PvP instead of embrace it for the fun that it brings. Why would someone who has no possible reward but a big possible risk would take those odds.. Sounds much better to just run away, hence, once again reducing PvP instead of increasing it.

 

This is a great point and extremely logical.  Thank you for stating this.

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Free to play = 50% of the players are bots.

Crushes the Economy.

 

Full loot will only slow them down, but rewards the players who kill the bots, while hurting the bot owner.

 

Only banning paid accounts, along with FFA Looting will hurt botting.

 

But it wont stop it.

 

I hope this game is Pay to Play, with a cash shop option....

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I believe a system where every item you are carrying has a percent chance to drop would be great.  So you can lose ANYTHING you are carrying even EVERYTHING, but each item is rolled on in the background when you are killed and has like a 40% chance of dropping.  Maybe even have a potion buff where you can pour it on an item and it lowers the percent of dropping to 10% for an hour or something like that.

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That's why I think making solid groundwork in regard of bots is so important. Indeed there should be game mechanisms that hinder boting drastically. And let us help. Making a game of this scope indeed is no easy task so I say let us players lend you a hand. We'll sort out what we can. Though I understand that a lot of people would like not to help but exploit the same mechanics.

 

Could not agree more. Bottom line is the design of the game. How each system in the game works and how they work with each other.

 

 

Players dislike grinding because grinding isn't fun. (Yes little Timmy, I know you have no issue farming the same spot for hours and hours but I can assure you that you are not the norm). Any game that has a grinding mechanic built in in order to extend content artificially (which is all that most grinding is) will have people attempting to bot to bypass this. Players are always looking for the easy way out. Perhaps not you, or me, or most of the people reading this, but once a game goes live the bots arrive. Suggestions in this thread so far, from IP blocks to credit card requirements are merely band-aids, not real solutions. All of those have been done before, and none really work. Full-loot is interesting, but that moves the defence to the legit players, and while many would be willing to help even more just want to play.

 

You are correct. Every MMO game I have ever seen or played has the grinding element. As you stated it is to extend content, there are other factors. Which I will not go into here.

 

Full loot my be an answer. It is not the answer. As you mentioned, some players may just want to play. Yet if you can implement some kind of system that rewards good players. Those whom defeat cheats and give them the freedom to do so. You will see a massive shift in the game.

 

The issues of PVP are well known and stated in this thread. Why spend ten hours to make a power axe if someone waiting just outside can kill you for it in 10 seconds. PVP is often plagued with problems. As does Griefing. The bottom line here is 'how is death of any character handled in the game'?

 

If you just respawn somewhere else, minus your equipment. Then appart from a wide range degree of pain of lossing your stuff (time spent playing the game) there is no real fear of death. It is a game after all. That is why the strong pick on the weak, in game and in life. Easy pickins. Which in turn slows the progression of the low level players and increases the wealth of the bully boys.

 

Why do I bring this up? Well imagine that the bully boys had something to lose? That their death, meant more than just a respwan. That it meant that player would lose levels? Or would lose a pecentage of their wealth as well as the loot they carried? The real question becomes, which system will help balance out the good of PVP with the bad of PVP? And are the developers willing to risk doing something truely different?

 

I for one would gather a posse of good players to hunt down the bandits in the hills.

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Full loot, and watch the gold farmers cry and make no money. Full loot and we will gladly relieve them of their bot-goodies. Full loot and no AH or epic lootz and they will go find another game. in other words.. FULL LOOT all day keeps the bots away.

 

100% agree with this!!!

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One notion: looks like few to none read this thread before posting. :)

 

Pretty much. A few brilliant thoughtful posts amidst bunch of reflex action posts.

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Full loot is not a panacea that will ensure that there are no bots.

 

How do you kill a bot that teleports from harvest node to harvest node so fast you don't even see it?

Greatswords for Frostweavers 2015! For great justice! And swords.

P.S. I like swords.

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