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It's not so much the speed of combat, as it is the restrictiveness and stiff feeling that over zealous animation locking brings. Reduce the animation lock and remove molasses mode while in combat, and you'll see a huge improvement. Combat right now is a cumbersome mess. 

 

This. Over zealous animation locking is from mi point of view the greatest problem of this combat now. Animation lock have their place in game but it need sane approach. I will use single player Dragon's Dogma game as example. Pretty much everything you do in that game is some sort of animation lock. Complete lock heavy slow or some forced move. Yet when you play the game it doesn't FEEL that way because game alway gives you something to do in that lock. Either turn around move slowly or instantly cancel some of thoose moves.

 

Crowfall could really use more ways to do locking then just freeze you where you are and forcing you to watch. I personally have no problem with speed of the animations but I don't like how long you are just watching and doing nothing while your characker finnishes animation. 

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Rofl, you're delusional. Care to make a poll and watch your delusion get shattered?

 

I don't think I need to explain the viability of forum polls to you. We can safely ignore these for generating any serious and useful feedback.

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Indeed, but you can realize that you're in a minority.

 

Now you assume I don't want the faster combat. Never said I wanted that, never said I didn't.

 

So, that was not my argument. You assume, once more, that the majority wants faster combat. Just pointing out that there are no indications that this is actually true. State facts, not assumptions.

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You want what ACE wants, right canth? :rolleyes:

 

Regarding combat? I still think they need to do a lot to make it actually great. It certainly lacks smoothness and it's way too static and clunky. I think the overall speed is fine, it certainly doesn't have to be twitch, since tactics and strategy should be more important. Animations locks are fine as well. 

 

I do understand however that they are building combat systems right now and that it will improve over time. I agree with what ACE envisions with their combat, we just have to be patient and not knee-jerk. It's even less than a year ago and people expect combat being done already. This is not how it works imo. But they are certainly not there yet. 

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Now you assume I don't want the faster combat. Never said I wanted that, never said I didn't.

 

So, that was not my argument. You assume, once more, that the majority wants faster combat. Just pointing out that there are no indications that this is actually true. State facts, not assumptions.

I think there needs to be a clearer definition of what we mean when we say faster combat is needed. When we (at least most of us) talk about faster combat, we're not talking about lower TTK, mach 10 unreal tournament wall jumping and movement. We're talking about better responsiveness, more fluidity, more mobility, more options and better feedback on attacks. Right now the animation lock system is the antithesis to this, as it enforce "stop-go" clunky and rigid game play. It doesn't look or feel good to anyone who has a few MMOs under their belt. Hell, right now WoW feels better. I know a lot of people like to use TERA as an example when the subject of animation lock is brought up, but you have to realize that TERA was designed from the ground up to be a PVE game, and even so you have way more freedom in that game than in comparison to CF. IMO right now the Knight is the better of example of what combat should be. Faster animations, more mobility freedom. They need to start making all the other archetypes like the knight in this manner. The game can be a bit more "reactive twitchy", and still maintain tactics and strategy.

 

Just for the record, I'm not entirely against animation locks. I'm just not sold on every ability having them.

Edited by helix
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On 3/26/2016 at 11:13 AM, Canth said:

I think the overall speed is fine, it certainly doesn't have to be twitch, since tactics and strategy should be more important. 

 

 

S

 

Edited by Effeh
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I think there needs to be a clearer definition of what we mean when we say faster combat is needed. When we (at least most of us) talk about faster combat, we're not talking about lower TTK, mach 10 unreal tournament wall jumping and movement. We're talking about better responsiveness, more fluidity, more mobility, more options and better feedback on attacks. Right now the animation lock system is the antithesis to this, as it enforce "stop-go" clunky and rigid game play. It doesn't look or feel good to anyone who has a few MMOs under their belt. Hell, right now WoW feels better. I know a lot of people like to use TERA as an example when the subject of animation lock is brought up, but you have to realize that TERA was designed from the ground up to be a PVE game, and even so you have way more freedom in that game than in comparison to CF. IMO right now the Knight is the better of example of what combat should be. Faster animations, more mobility freedom. They need to start making all the other archetypes like the knight in this manner. The game can be a bit more "reactive twitchy", and still maintain tactics and strategy.

 

Just for the record, I'm not entirely against animation locks. I'm just not sold on every ability having them.

 

How is that relevant when it comes to animation locks in Tera? The animation locks in Tera punished anyone who was bad in pvp and everyone (who wasn't garbage) stacked attack speed for pvp gear. I've yet to see a game come close to Tera's pvp combat, BDO is probably the closest but still too easy.

 

Commit to a skill at a not so good time?

Dodge/Step/I-frame out immediately or get destroyed.

 

 

 

LOL at the animation speeds being fine. Looking forward to that PR a few years from now about misunderstanding the importance of good combat, or perhaps the pace of combat, and that it's sad but the game has to close down. I cannot see this gaining traction. "Hi, yes I'm looking for a game that is very slow" "What?" "A game this slow, you know, requires zero mental or physical proficiency."

 

I've played the game finally now too. Confessor is cool, the similarities to Tera's combat are cool, but the speed is just mind-numbing.

 

Put a skill in the general section that increases animation(attack) speeds by 100%. Annihilation incoming.

Edited by Sciocco

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In my opinion speed in games adds to tactical depth... It's not just about who can get the right answer... most people might given enough time... it's about who can do it faster and better.

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I know spouting "make it more like DFO" isn't a constructive or unique idea but that's all they need to do. People didn't leave DFO because the combat was bad, if anything they stuck around as long as they did because it was good.

 

Stop trying to re-invent the wheel, stop trying to be so unique.

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The combat doesn't have to be Unique, the game style can be. It wouldnt be bad to look at other games that do really well in combat, not saying to copy it but look at the speed/pace.

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I know spouting "make it more like DFO" isn't a constructive or unique idea but that's all they need to do. People didn't leave DFO because the combat was bad, if anything they stuck around as long as they did because it was good.
 
Stop trying to re-invent the wheel, stop trying to be so unique.

 

Well agree or not ACE simply doesn't like the DF style, so obviously thats not an option here. With tweaks and improvements this system can be good, its just a matter of getting there, IMO.

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For the sake of discussion, I'd like to distinguish the difference between fast gameplay, and highly mobile gameplay.

 

They could in fact increase the intensity of combat with faster, more rapid attacks and defenses, without ramping up mobility and allowing players to rush around each other.

 

Movement itself can be more deliberate with inertia which prevents sudden stops and changes in movement direction.

 

For tactical play, mobility needs to be restrained, not the actual combat speed of everything else, Fighting games are very fast, but you rarely move very far, it's all sudden flashes of movement and complex attack interactions.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

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Aye, right now TTK doesn't seem to be too bad. I have to agree though that it just feels really weird and clunky. Slow is too simple a way to describe it I guess, but it works. Its seems to suck the energy right out of the fights and just leaves you feeling like you're being held back haha. 

 

Let me move as quickly as my rage flows through me, damn it!

Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

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I wont lie, the fact that the combat is slow is annoying but then ive seen many alpha where the combat was changed after... Example of this is Archeage, I'm not comparing crowfall to archeage, that not my intention, just saying this is a video of Archeage Alpha...:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_2Hy1ga14A

 

And if anyone has seen archeage now, this is a major change from what it is now. So there my hope for combat improvement!

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I think a lot of the problem right now isn't the animation times themselves but the delay between different animations. As a champion I'd love to be able to seamless go between combos and abilities but at the moment it's swing...pause...swing...pause etc.

 

Same goes for the ranger which has the same sort of delay in between shots where you're essentially just standing there with your character not charging up another arrow.

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Faster combat doesn't have to mean that you die in 10 seconds.

 

I'm no expert, but maybe there is a variable we're overlooking : numbers

 

now you play short matches in an arena, and maybe this doesn't really bring the vision of the game to life.

But in my mind, the faster the combat, the more people participate => the faster you die.

This might not fit in the more strategic picture of a campaign, where loosing a strategic location impacts the end result.

Personally I don't mind fights that last a bit longer and have more meaning, then a fight where 5 rangers target me => the end.

 

There is one moment I really really enjoyed in crowfall test, and that was as a champion jumping into a group and just start spinning.

if everyone can move really fast, that action has no meaning at all as everyone just steps aside and you are just a spinning target ready for the slaughter. That time around, noone seemed to have a stun ready, and reacted slow, I did a ton of damage before having to become a statue, and realize my attackers were meanwhile getting wiped by the rest of the team. all that lasted 30 secs. If that isn't fast enough well what is? Already, in 30 secs more then 3 players died,

that is 10 secs per player...

 

Now I'm not advocating combat should bore people either, but maybe you should keep an open mind and rely on the fact the "devs" are trying to make a fun game, which might not have the most engaging /fast paced combat. I'm all about listening to feedback, and honestly I don't want to play a game with no hardcore pvp'ers around, but maybe you need to stop looking at this as "combat" alone, and accept the focus is not solely on 1vs1 twitch dogfights.

 

Maybe combat speed should become scaled based on the location / number of players etc, and I realize that again might not suit you, because you'd have to deal with variable speeds then, but short of implementing something of the kind, I don't see how you can strike a balance between FAST combat and not dying within 10 secs in a large battle, without given players tons of hp, which would make 1on 1 fights extremely boring in your vision then

Edited by Overdhose

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Speed is an iffy subject with Crowfall's combat since it really isn't finished. Some want it faster, some want it slower, some want it totally redone, but I think for now we need to just stick with what we got. Once Siege Perilous hits, I think we will see how well the current combat system is.

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I like the TTK currently but I would like to see faster combat. It doesn't need to be twitchy fast where players develop Carpal Tunnel within the first week but a slight boost would be well received imo. I'm also not overly enthusiastic about most abilities having a cast bar attached to them that roots root in place, some abilities need this and should have it but right now it's to many abilities have it, combat doesn't feel fluid when everyone's standing still to fight. 

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