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How deep will crafting go?


silhaku
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I want to know how detailed and complex crafting will be. Like will RNG play a roll in how good the gear will be. If so will there be skills in the crafting trees to increase the rng, maybe even the max and minimum also. Will there be a actual mechanic to crafting like a detailed mini-game or anything that take effort besides just getting the mats? Will there be skill to reduce the amount of mats needed to forge items? Maybe even one that give you a better chance at more items when you salvage. I would like to see all of this in the crafting system, especially if it's suppose to be just as deep as the combat. Skills for better recipes and everything. And make the tiers between the recipes overlap a bit too that way if you are making a better tier of armor someone will a lower tier but more skill in getting better quality still have a chance to make better gear. Make every choice have some merit ya know.

Edited by silhaku
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There won't be recipe tiers. There will just be recipes and the materials you use will determine the quality of the result. For example, you might have a plate helm recipe. You can use any type of metal to create the helm. Different metals will produce different properties and different quality levels, but it's the same recipe you will use whenever you want to make a plate helm.

 

RNG will be a factor, but we don't now how much yet. They said that there are no limitations on what you can attempt to craft. On day 1, you could use the best materials (obtained from a Dregs campaign) to craft a plate helm, but your chance of success is small compared to someone who is highly trained in blacksmithing. So from that perspective, there will definitely be RNG. 

 

Whether or not there will be a crafting mini-game, I don't know. I'm guessing not, but they haven't given us much info on crafting since the Kickstarter.

 

I imagine that there will be all sorts of skills to improve crafting. The higher skill you get, the less chance of failure when using higher quality materials. Beyond that, I don't know, as they haven't included the crafting skill trees in the game yet.

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The FAQ are great, even if not answering every question.

Just a few snippets from there:

Who can craft:

Every character has the ability craft some items, from the beginning of the game. Further crafting requires the accumulation of recipes via Discipline Runestones and other gameplay mechanics.

About recipes:

For example: You have a single recipe for “Plate Helm” in your list. The requirements are 3 metal and 1 cloth 1 Leather and 1 additive element. The player can choose which tiers of those resources to put in those slots. As long as the slots are filled with something valid, the recipe will craft. They can even add something special to the additive slot to alter the item in a significant way.

About RNG and tiers:

The crafting skill also acts as a soft gate rather than a hard gate normally seen in crafting systems. In most games, a crafter wouldn’t see upper end recipes until they hit a certain skill amount, grinding out thousands of needless items to get to that point. In Crowfall, each crafter starts with the same set of key recipes -- the challenge is going to be getting their hands on upper-end resources they can craft with them. If they can get these resources, they CAN craft the item -- but the chances of success are very low.

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The only RNG that we know of is success rate. From the information we have been given, there may be a small amount of RNG in the statistics of an item but, the same recipe should always give the same type of statistics. We have no idea if there will be an experimentation mechanic or a critical crafting mechanic. It may be similar to the UO system where items have a chance to be exceptional or GM forged. We have to wait and find out.

Edited by IdeaMatrix
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I don't mind some RNG involved in crafting, as long as any highly trained crafter reduces probabilities of critical faillure, i.e. obtaining 500 Str on a weapon when the fork is 490-800.

It could be interesting to bring danger to crafters. Or actually the opposite; bring crafters into danger. Will they/we pull out the best items from a cosy warm forge house ?
What about Points of Interests that benefits to crafts ?

A top of a mountain with its eternal snow grants to the final product an extra +frost dmg/resist. So you need to wander outside of the comfort zone. Your customer may follow and protect you, just to be sure you make it without trouble. Or you're a renowned crafter, the job is always done, you just need an order.

Or the bloodstone tree gives any item built next to it +vampirism on a weapon ? As the primary objective, that tree is well guarded. But not by your guildmates. Pay the tax fee or craft elsewhere ! Maybe you're not a crafter att all and want to get in, as a trojan horse, and help your allies to land your hands on the tree :D

If such POIs are not available every time/campains, it could add value to items with specific bonus. It also relies on the decay system.

Hmm. Can't help myself here, need to make suggestions, sorry :D

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I'd like to touch on the sub-topic of RNG in crafting, here, and say that randomness should answer to player skill/knowledge/experience/stats. A good example is Pillars of Eternity's combat system. It's a 1d100 roll, basically, and the default is for 1-5 to miss, 6-50 to graze (a hit, but kind of a crappy one), 51-95 to hit normally (unmodified), and 96-100 to critically hit. Thing is, if you've got 10 Accuracy and your foe has 5 Defense, you basically shift the whole scale 5 points (your accuracy minus his defense) in your favor. So, now miss has been pushed off the scale. Graze starts at 1, hit at 46, and crit at 91.

 

So, it's random, but not entirely. If you're the most accurate person in the planet and your opponent is frozen in place, you cannot miss, and you're highly unlikely to graze, and much more likely to crit. Now, that's only dealing with passive stats (i.e. your character is X good at this skill, so your attempt will factor in the number X), but I'd hate if there wasn't as least a partial active factor at play. Maybe it's timing. Maybe it's positioning. Who knows. Call it a minigame if you want, but something you actually DO should affect the RNG equation. The better you do (much like the higher your character's passive skill rating), the less likely you should be to fail, and/or the more mitigated failure should be. And the more likely you should be to succeed and/or critically succeed (and/or the greater the potential success should be when you do).

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I'd like to touch on the sub-topic of RNG in crafting, here, and say that randomness should answer to player skill/knowledge/experience/stats. A good example is Pillars of Eternity's combat system. It's a 1d100 roll, basically, and the default is for 1-5 to miss, 6-50 to graze (a hit, but kind of a crappy one), 51-95 to hit normally (unmodified), and 96-100 to critically hit. Thing is, if you've got 10 Accuracy and your foe has 5 Defense, you basically shift the whole scale 5 points (your accuracy minus his defense) in your favor. So, now miss has been pushed off the scale. Graze starts at 1, hit at 46, and crit at 91.

 

So, it's random, but not entirely. If you're the most accurate person in the planet and your opponent is frozen in place, you cannot miss, and you're highly unlikely to graze, and much more likely to crit. Now, that's only dealing with passive stats (i.e. your character is X good at this skill, so your attempt will factor in the number X), but I'd hate if there wasn't as least a partial active factor at play. Maybe it's timing. Maybe it's positioning. Who knows. Call it a minigame if you want, but something you actually DO should affect the RNG equation. The better you do (much like the higher your character's passive skill rating), the less likely you should be to fail, and/or the more mitigated failure should be. And the more likely you should be to succeed and/or critically succeed (and/or the greater the potential success should be when you do).

I agree with this. I think how good of a item you get should come down to luck. Making it so crafters don't get to the point where they have the skill and are just given the same results based off the stats and mats used. It should be a exciting experience with every item you make so when you do get that crit during your crafting its like hitting the jackpot. But at the same time, no one likes when it all depends on luck. That's why skills, knowledge, and player ability would make the player feel more involved in the process. 

Edited by silhaku
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I'd like to touch on the sub-topic of RNG in crafting, here, and say that randomness should answer to player skill/knowledge/experience/stats. A good example is Pillars of Eternity's combat system. It's a 1d100 roll, basically, and the default is for 1-5 to miss, 6-50 to graze (a hit, but kind of a crappy one), 51-95 to hit normally (unmodified), and 96-100 to critically hit. Thing is, if you've got 10 Accuracy and your foe has 5 Defense, you basically shift the whole scale 5 points (your accuracy minus his defense) in your favor. So, now miss has been pushed off the scale. Graze starts at 1, hit at 46, and crit at 91.

 

So, it's random, but not entirely. If you're the most accurate person in the planet and your opponent is frozen in place, you cannot miss, and you're highly unlikely to graze, and much more likely to crit. Now, that's only dealing with passive stats (i.e. your character is X good at this skill, so your attempt will factor in the number X), but I'd hate if there wasn't as least a partial active factor at play. Maybe it's timing. Maybe it's positioning. Who knows. Call it a minigame if you want, but something you actually DO should affect the RNG equation. The better you do (much like the higher your character's passive skill rating), the less likely you should be to fail, and/or the more mitigated failure should be. And the more likely you should be to succeed and/or critically succeed (and/or the greater the potential success should be when you do).

I agree. I don't expect Revival Game levels of crafting (although Ipersonally wouldn't object) but I gotta figure there'll be some sort of active participation in crafting. Most games have crafters out solo, gathering mats +90% of the time, but in a game that is PvP centered, with crafters at a disadvantage in combat, and where traveling alone for any reason isn't a good idea, that will be hard to pull off. What little information we have about crafting usually refers to experimentation and making unique items, I must imagine there will be more to it than "Click materials and additives. Click craft. Wait. Receive RNG masterpiece." Edited by ZaphodBeeblebrox
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I don't mind some RNG involved in crafting, as long as any highly trained crafter reduces probabilities of critical faillure, i.e. obtaining 500 Str on a weapon when the fork is 490-800.

 

It could be interesting to bring danger to crafters. Or actually the opposite; bring crafters into danger. Will they/we pull out the best items from a cosy warm forge house ?

What about Points of Interests that benefits to crafts ?

 

A top of a mountain with its eternal snow grants to the final product an extra +frost dmg/resist. So you need to wander outside of the comfort zone. Your customer may follow and protect you, just to be sure you make it without trouble. Or you're a renowned crafter, the job is always done, you just need an order.

 

Or the bloodstone tree gives any item built next to it +vampirism on a weapon ? As the primary objective, that tree is well guarded. But not by your guildmates. Pay the tax fee or craft elsewhere ! Maybe you're not a crafter att all and want to get in, as a trojan horse, and help your allies to land your hands on the tree :D

 

If such POIs are not available every time/campains, it could add value to items with specific bonus. It also relies on the decay system.

 

Hmm. Can't help myself here, need to make suggestions, sorry :D

If you are unable to import items into the dregs or only those items pre-equipped on a vessel, wouldn't it make sense to bring in some crafters to repair, make consumables and vessels, and perhaps even craft some extra weapons IN the CW.  Particularly one with a longer run time where you are possibly likely to break stuff you begin with.

It may even be true for the dregs that you start with nothing but the crafting skills on your crow and have to find a vessel and craft everything you need IN the CW, EVERYTHING from scratch...   that would make having your crafting skilled up on your main account crow pretty key so that you can get an edge on vessel and gear asap in the first few days of the CW while not being completely inept at fighting and defending yourself... (or have your main and alt accounts both join that CW).

Edited by Frykka

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Will there be skill to reduce the amount of mats needed to forge items? Maybe even one that give you a better chance at more items when you salvage. 

 

I'm not sure what state the crafting skill trees are in at this point, but I'd guess that there will not be any skills to reduce mats consumed.  Since the recipes are simplistic and the materials will heavily influence the output, cutting out resources doesn't really follow (unless resources are randomly 'returned' after success, I suppose).  Perhaps there will be skills that increase salvage and prospecting yields though...

 
 

...but I'd hate if there wasn't as least a partial active factor at play. Maybe it's timing. Maybe it's positioning. Who knows. Call it a minigame if you want, but something you actually DO should affect the RNG equation. The better you do (much like the higher your character's passive skill rating), the less likely you should be to fail, and/or the more mitigated failure should be. And the more likely you should be to succeed and/or critically succeed (and/or the greater the potential success should be when you do).

 

Most of me likes the idea of an active (player interaction) layer to crafting that might influence the output and that might require additional player skills/knowledge, but a smaller part of me says that that the first part of this sentence is a hassle.  I think that balances out to "good idea, but keep it simple".  RNG is absolutely critical in my book (RNG is to Crafter what exploring is to Ranger, the unknown) but it needs to be well tempered or it makes everything too unpredictable and frustrating.  

 

 

It may be similar to the UO system where items have a chance to be exceptional or GM forged.

 

UO crafting was awesome for the most part; sometimes RNG in that game had it out for me :)

Edited by starrshipcs
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I was musing on this the other day, and what I'd like to see is:

  • Success percentage based on skills vs tier.  Higher tier materials equates to greater chance of failure.  Highest tier should always have a (moderate) chance to fail.
  • Selection of stat bonuses.  Diablo and The Division (to name some recent examples) have a system that allows you to re-roll a single stat on equipment from drops and crafted equipment.  This is simply a cash sink.  As an experienced crafter, I want to be able to choose exactly what stat I want, and the value will be determined by the materials chosen and my skills.
  • Limited repair.  If you are a crafter as your main game play angle, then repair will reduced your cash flow (sure, you can charge for repairs and that's fine but I think a good bench mark would be that an item should only last about the length of one campaign world if it's well taken care of.)  For anything rarer, make it so that the recipe is rare, the materials are set and rare and it degrades quicker than normal.

Those are all of the points I really came up with myself.

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I was musing on this the other day, and what I'd like to see is:

  • Success percentage based on skills vs tier.  Higher tier materials equates to greater chance of failure.  Highest tier should always have a (moderate) chance to fail.
  • Selection of stat bonuses.  Diablo and The Division (to name some recent examples) have a system that allows you to re-roll a single stat on equipment from drops and crafted equipment.  This is simply a cash sink.  As an experienced crafter, I want to be able to choose exactly what stat I want, and the value will be determined by the materials chosen and my skills.
  • Limited repair.  If you are a crafter as your main game play angle, then repair will reduced your cash flow (sure, you can charge for repairs and that's fine but I think a good bench mark would be that an item should only last about the length of one campaign world if it's well taken care of.)  For anything rarer, make it so that the recipe is rare, the materials are set and rare and it degrades quicker than normal.

Those are all of the points I really came up with myself.

I like the limited repair idea, I just don't think rare items should degrade quicker because #1 they are already rare, if anything they should last longer. And I don't see why they can't decrease the durability of a weapon every time its repaired and if you let it hit 0 its done for. That way a player has to think "do I really need to repair it now or can I wait another battle or so?" Eventually the weapon will be too low on durability to worry about repairing again at which point it would be better just to use it till it is up. You can also increase the repair cost/resources needed to repair after every repair, making one really question if its worth repairing or not.

Edited by silhaku
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I don't mind repairing so much as long as crafting is required to repair an item. Crafting repair deeds worked pretty well in UO. It's just a generic item that you can sell for a reasonable price and it supplies the maximum chance to succeed for a price. You always have a chance to fail or critically fail and break your item. Of course, it would only be worth it to repair an item of significant value, such as a nice vessel or a perfect stat rolled piece of weapon or armor. This would only be valuable in the high import campaigns.

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