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taroskin

Ace, Are you back pedalling on Healing?

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Druid.png

 

The Legio is no where as Healy as this guy!

 

That being said him ending up as a Support is more of a function of the Archetype build order more than anything. We wanted to do him early since his body carried with it many animation risks that we needed to explore and mitigate. Unfortunately we didn't want to have 1 tank and 2 dps in the early Hunger Domes. Neither of the other 2 remotely fit the bill for Support, plus we also wanted to explore melee/ranged with the other two.

 

I still think the Legionnaire fits in very well as the Battlefield Commander (Support role). His powers fit him well with themed Buffs, Debuffs, and Heals appropriate of a military esque Support guy. The need to operate in melee range to fuel his actions also serves him well. He is now also the fastest Archetype and when we let him do basics on the move he will be the fastest Archetype with an on the move snare. Just because he's not a glass cannon doesn't diminish him in any way.

 

Even when the Druid arrives on scene he still has multiple key differences from her. I imagine a good team will want one of each.

 

If you have to take a well functioning finished character or a lore snippet ("bred to be a warrior") I will take a functioning character any day of the week. Pretty easy to swap the word warrior with leader.


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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...

That being said him ending up as a Support is more of a function of the Archetype build order more than anything. We wanted to do him early since his body carried with it many animation risks that we needed to explore and mitigate. Unfortunately we didn't want to have 1 tank and 2 dps in the early Hunger Domes. Neither of the other 2 remotely fit the bill for Support, plus we also wanted to explore melee/ranged with the other two.

 

 

The Legio is a victim of logistics, eh?  Too bad, really.

 

...

 

If you have to take a well functioning finished character or a lore snippet ("bred to be a warrior") I will take a functioning character any day of the week. Pretty easy to swap the word warrior with leader.

 

I have some suggestions for the "functioning" Legio then.  First, It would be great, when you get around to it, if you would change his "lore snippet".  You might want to look at the backstory/fluff portion as well, as could be construed as being somewhat misleading.  I am sure you/your team could come up with something that is more fitting to justify the design changes. Also, though meaningless at this point, you also might want to address his "stats" because they, too, could confuse new players.  Another suggestion, a bit more nitpicky and difficult I'm afraid, would be to perhaps alter his weapon to be more fitting with his support/leadership role--giant menacing polearms are not normally associated with support and almost always indicate dps of some kind.  Perhaps going with different versions of a staff would be more appropriate?  Maybe some sort of Romanesque totem/banner could be cool. 

 

Finally, I appreciate you being forthright with this.  You could have easily ignored it or made up some hogwash excuse.  Thank you for not doing so.


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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The Legio is a victim of logistics, eh?  Too bad, really.

 

 

I have some suggestions for the "functioning" Legio then.  First, It would be great, when you get around to it, if you would change his "lore snippet".  You might want to look at the backstory/fluff portion as well, as could be construed as being somewhat misleading.  I am sure you/your team could come up with something that is more fitting to justify the design changes. Also, though meaningless at this point, you also might want to address his "stats" because they, too, could confuse new players.  Another suggestion, a bit more nitpicky and difficult I'm afraid, would be to perhaps alter his weapon to be more fitting with his support/leadership role--giant menacing polearms are not normally associated with support and almost always indicate dps of some kind.  Perhaps going with different versions of a staff would be more appropriate?  Maybe some sort of Romanesque totem/banner could be cool. 

 

Finally, I appreciate you being forthright with this.  You could have easily ignored it or made up some hogwash excuse.  Thank you for not doing so.

Have we considered a Poleapple. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Druid.png

 

The Legio is no where as Healy as this guy!

 

That being said him ending up as a Support is more of a function of the Archetype build order more than anything. We wanted to do him early since his body carried with it many animation risks that we needed to explore and mitigate. Unfortunately we didn't want to have 1 tank and 2 dps in the early Hunger Domes. Neither of the other 2 remotely fit the bill for Support, plus we also wanted to explore melee/ranged with the other two.

 

I still think the Legionnaire fits in very well as the Battlefield Commander (Support role). His powers fit him well with themed Buffs, Debuffs, and Heals appropriate of a military esque Support guy. The need to operate in melee range to fuel his actions also serves him well. He is now also the fastest Archetype and when we let him do basics on the move he will be the fastest Archetype with an on the move snare. Just because he's not a glass cannon doesn't diminish him in any way.

 

Even when the Druid arrives on scene he still has multiple key differences from her. I imagine a good team will want one of each.

 

If you have to take a well functioning finished character or a lore snippet ("bred to be a warrior") I will take a functioning character any day of the week. Pretty easy to swap the word warrior with leader.

 

Everything you said here makes me even more confidant the end result for the legionnaire is going to work out excellently. Though the idea that any archetype will be specifically desired for a "good team" is worrisome, with 13 archetypes any composition should have at least one situation they can excel at. For example an all Ranger and Assassin group ambushing a caravan.

 

Heck, an all legionnaire group might actually be fairly scary to run into in the wild. I remember running in some all defender/controller (the support and crowd control classes) groups in City of Heroes and while we needed to focus fire a bit the shear amount of dps and damage mitigation we could strip away from a targets was scary.

 

Really disagree with the idea that it needs a less militaristic weapon just because its a support.

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The Druid can't be a dedicated healer.... or your going to have a crispy druid on your hands... I believe the mechanic forces the Druid to be balanced between healing and damage dealing.  If you burn yourself to heal others you have to quickly figure out where the balance in that is, or your not going to be healing for very long.


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Wrathmane - Remnant of Ascendance

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Bro, don't you know that if you have one healing ability in tie power tray you're the teams fire hose healer?!?!

 

Get with the times!

 

Which I why I think Lego's new bellow needs a cooldown/strength tweak...else that might be all some lego's now spend their limited rage on..


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The Legio is a victim of logistics, eh?  Too bad, really.

 

 

I have some suggestions for the "functioning" Legio then.  First, It would be great, when you get around to it, if you would change his "lore snippet".  You might want to look at the backstory/fluff portion as well, as could be construed as being somewhat misleading.  I am sure you/your team could come up with something that is more fitting to justify the design changes. Also, though meaningless at this point, you also might want to address his "stats" because they, too, could confuse new players.  Another suggestion, a bit more nitpicky and difficult I'm afraid, would be to perhaps alter his weapon to be more fitting with his support/leadership role--giant menacing polearms are not normally associated with support and almost always indicate dps of some kind.  Perhaps going with different versions of a staff would be more appropriate?  Maybe some sort of Romanesque totem/banner could be cool. 

 

Finally, I appreciate you being forthright with this.  You could have easily ignored it or made up some hogwash excuse.  Thank you for not doing so.

He still does melee DPS though so hence him needing an actual melee weapon.

 

Think there is still confusion as to what support means and likely will still be confusing until we see most if not all the archetypes in action. Just because a class is called support doesn't mean they don't still do damage, in fact the way the game seems to be being designed is that support class need to actively engage in combat to fuel and manage their support capabilities. Can't do that if you just give them some token for show only "weapon".

Edited by pang

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The Legio is a victim of logistics, eh?  Too bad, really.

 

 

 

I have some suggestions for the "functioning" Legio then.  First, It would be great, when you get around to it, if you would change his "lore snippet".  You might want to look at the backstory/fluff portion as well, as could be construed as being somewhat misleading.  I am sure you/your team could come up with something that is more fitting to justify the design changes. Also, though meaningless at this point, you also might want to address his "stats" because they, too, could confuse new players.  Another suggestion, a bit more nitpicky and difficult I'm afraid, would be to perhaps alter his weapon to be more fitting with his support/leadership role--giant menacing polearms are not normally associated with support and almost always indicate dps of some kind.  Perhaps going with different versions of a staff would be more appropriate?  Maybe some sort of Romanesque totem/banner could be cool. 

 

Finally, I appreciate you being forthright with this.  You could have easily ignored it or made up some hogwash excuse.  Thank you for not doing so.

I think people pay too much attention to the "lore". CF is not really driven by "lore" Like WoW or other mmorpgs are, and we're also in a state where lore like most things in the game are in flux.

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I think people pay too much attention to the "lore". CF is not really driven by "lore" Like WoW or other mmorpgs are, and we're also in a state where lore like most things in the game are in flux.

I'm not sure I understand the assertion.

 

"Lore" in CF plays the same role in CF as in any other MMORPG. It establishes the storied reasons for the manifestation of the virtual world and why it exists. Potentially "where it will go" over time.

 

"Lore" in no way contradicts nor is in conflict with the PvP-centric nature of the game. It just provides a contextual reference for the existence of a CW for instance.

 

No different than the reasoning for Horde vs Alliance in WoW, how did they come to be.

 

Elaborate on what you meant.

Edited by Bramble

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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I'm not sure I understand the assertion."Lore" in CF plays the same role in CF as in any other MMORPG. It establishes the storied reasons for the manifestation of the virtual world and why it exists. Potentially "where it will go" over time."Lore" in no way contradicts nor is in conflict with the PvP-centric nature of the game. It just provides a contextual reference for the existence of a CW for instance.No different than the reasoning for Horde vs Alliance in WoW, how did they come to be.Elaborate on what you meant.

A game like Warcraft has to abide by it's lore of 20 plus years. In game characterizations are taken from the established lore of the novels and vice versa. In contrast CF doesn't have as rich or firmly established lore/universe. They take a lot of inspiration from different sources but that's pretty much it. A game like CF doesn't need to abide by it's lore like Warcraft does, especially this early in development when most of this stuff is "fluff". If they decided frost weavers were going to be road-side strippers, and THEN decided they wanted to make them cowboys, they could easily do that.

 

A lot of people like game lore and play it largely for that reason. I don't believe CF should (or is) one of those games however. CF design decisions shouldn't be driven or influenced by lore, like a lot of the decisions the Warcraft franchise is.

 

There was a pretty good article written by a dude from riot talking about how lore can potentially be a hindrance to a game and isn't all that important, I might look for it later.

Edited by helix

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Druid.png

 

The Legio is no where as Healy as this guy!

 

That being said him ending up as a Support is more of a function of the Archetype build order more than anything. We wanted to do him early since his body carried with it many animation risks that we needed to explore and mitigate. Unfortunately we didn't want to have 1 tank and 2 dps in the early Hunger Domes. Neither of the other 2 remotely fit the bill for Support, plus we also wanted to explore melee/ranged with the other two.

 

I still think the Legionnaire fits in very well as the Battlefield Commander (Support role). His powers fit him well with themed Buffs, Debuffs, and Heals appropriate of a military esque Support guy. The need to operate in melee range to fuel his actions also serves him well. He is now also the fastest Archetype and when we let him do basics on the move he will be the fastest Archetype with an on the move snare. Just because he's not a glass cannon doesn't diminish him in any way.

 

Even when the Druid arrives on scene he still has multiple key differences from her. I imagine a good team will want one of each.

 

If you have to take a well functioning finished character or a lore snippet ("bred to be a warrior") I will take a functioning character any day of the week. Pretty easy to swap the word warrior with leader.

 

 

Lego basics whilst moving is important to make the combat feel smoother.  Perhaps tech can be implemented to slow down the centaur to comparable knight LMB whilst moving speeds.  What I envision is each success LMB hit applies a stacking movement debuff on the Lego that removes his movement advantage for x amount of time.  This trade off would make lego melee combat feel much smoother whilst also keeping their movement advantage in check as a trade off.

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A game like Warcraft has to abide by it's lore of 20 plus years. In game characterizations are taken from the established lore of the novels and vice versa. In contrast CF doesn't have as rich or firmly established lore/universe. They take a lot of inspiration from different sources but that's pretty much it. A game like CF doesn't need to abide by it's lore like Warcraft does, especially this early in development when most of this stuff is "fluff". If they decided frost weavers were going to be road-side strippers, and THEN decided they wanted to make them cowboys, they could easily do that.

 

A lot of people like game lore and play it largely for that reason. I don't believe CF should (or is) one of those games however. CF design decisions shouldn't be driven or influenced by lore, like a lot of the decisions the Warcraft franchise is.

 

There was a pretty good article written by a dude from riot talking about how lore can potentially be a hindrance to a game and isn't all that important, I might look for it later.

 

Ok. I gotcha.

 

I'm more of the belief however that because CF is "still in the womb" that's what lends itself more to . . . flex in Lore as the fetus gestates.

 

"Lore" is, even if at the high level, part of the game.  I'm not going to 2nd guess for ACE how they "should" deal with it or not.

 

Thanks for the reply.

Edited by Bramble

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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Druid.png

 

The Legio is no where as Healy as this guy!

 

That being said him ending up as a Support is more of a function of the Archetype build order more than anything. We wanted to do him early since his body carried with it many animation risks that we needed to explore and mitigate. Unfortunately we didn't want to have 1 tank and 2 dps in the early Hunger Domes. Neither of the other 2 remotely fit the bill for Support, plus we also wanted to explore melee/ranged with the other two.

 

I still think the Legionnaire fits in very well as the Battlefield Commander (Support role). His powers fit him well with themed Buffs, Debuffs, and Heals appropriate of a military esque Support guy. The need to operate in melee range to fuel his actions also serves him well. He is now also the fastest Archetype and when we let him do basics on the move he will be the fastest Archetype with an on the move snare. Just because he's not a glass cannon doesn't diminish him in any way.

 

Even when the Druid arrives on scene he still has multiple key differences from her. I imagine a good team will want one of each.

 

If you have to take a well functioning finished character or a lore snippet ("bred to be a warrior") I will take a functioning character any day of the week. Pretty easy to swap the word warrior with leader.

So basically, you should have made Druid or Templar much earlier to cover this role, but instead made Centaur and Champion, and since you already proxied Centaur as a support, your stuck on it, giving us wonderful affirmation that disappointing choices get reinforced instead of reevaluated.

 

Pro tip, Templar could have covered defense and healing with the already produced model instead of implementing knight, but I guess you can only continue down the path you've blazed, resources and consequences being what they are...

 

A game like Warcraft has to abide by it's lore of 20 plus years. In game characterizations are taken from the established lore of the novels and vice versa. In contrast CF doesn't have as rich or firmly established lore/universe. They take a lot of inspiration from different sources but that's pretty much it. A game like CF doesn't need to abide by it's lore like Warcraft does, especially this early in development when most of this stuff is "fluff". If they decided frost weavers were going to be road-side strippers, and THEN decided they wanted to make them cowboys, they could easily do that.

 

A lot of people like game lore and play it largely for that reason. I don't believe CF should (or is) one of those games however. CF design decisions shouldn't be driven or influenced by lore, like a lot of the decisions the Warcraft franchise is.

 

There was a pretty good article written by a dude from riot talking about how lore can potentially be a hindrance to a game and isn't all that important, I might look for it later.

I'm pretty sure they solicited "donations" for the constriction of this game on the strength of their art and descriptions, even saying that their depictions were reliable estimations of what we could expect to have.

 

Ask for money, then flip the script, cause that's okay, all that money they collected is "theirs" after all. Expectations and accountability be damned...

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Except they can't, because it's a competitive game and variety is more competitively viable than isolating yourself to 1 role.

 

Ever played a MOBA with someone who only plays one character regardless of team comp or opponent make up? Let's not get into vessels while talking about healing though...

 

Many MMORPG's are competitive and players tend to stick to the same character for a long time. It benefits you not only because you can progress farther when you specialize, but you also improve your personal player skill at that class the more you play it. These things are also true of Crowfall.

 

Some hardcore players will have more than one main class if they have the time, or long-term play makes that easier as well eventually, but even that is only 2-3 typically. I'd expect the same to be true here.

 

People will have one they favor and play most of the time, and guilds will be planning their roster's around this. When possible or when necessary people may switch either for fun or if a particular situation would benefit more from a different class makeup.

 

But I don't expect this to operate like a MOBA where people are switching between a large number of characters frequently. I actually think, like most MMO's, you will benefit from sticking with one or max two archetypes most of the time. MMORPG gameplay overall is different in many ways to MOBA's and tends to benefit those that specialize for a number of reasons.

Edited by Leiloni

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