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Experiments with armor - Official discussion thread


Pann

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I'm fine with the RNG. I think it makes it a little more interesting. Besides, there's RNG on both sides of the equation. Powers and weapons all have damage ranges. When you attack, the game uses RNG to determine how much damage the weapon does and how much damage the ability does.

 

If there was no RNG on the mitigation side, then wearing all plate with leather boots wouldn't make as much of a difference. The lower mitigation would be averaged out and be relatively insignificant. However, with the possibility of an attack hitting the boots, the lower mitigation has a chance to have a larger effect.

 

The alternative is that every attack with the same ability and weapon always does the same amount of damage pre-mitigation, and the same set of armor always mitigates the same percentage of damage. That might be nice for testing/comparing, but it's also rather boring IMO.

same here. It's just so unimportant compared to the other issues that will affect fun. Basically, we've got bigger fish to fry by far.
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Also, still not sure what the point of wearing chain will be when we get more damage types in.  It seems overall the weakest form of protection of all the armours, reduces damage and run speed.

 

I'm assuming it will be made up for in the bonuses? Also it's hard to tell with out knowing the numbers on strong, some, weak, and vulnerable.

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I'm fine with the RNG. I think it makes it a little more interesting. Besides, there's RNG on both sides of the equation. Powers and weapons all have damage ranges. When you attack, the game uses RNG to determine how much damage the weapon does and how much damage the ability does.

 

If there was no RNG on the mitigation side, then wearing all plate with leather boots wouldn't make as much of a difference. The lower mitigation would be averaged out and be relatively insignificant. However, with the possibility of an attack hitting the boots, the lower mitigation has a chance to have a larger effect.

 

The alternative is that every attack with the same ability and weapon always does the same amount of damage pre-mitigation, and the same set of armor always mitigates the same percentage of damage. That might be nice for testing/comparing, but it's also rather boring IMO.

 

 

I was going to post something similar so I'll just add on to this.

 

It's pre-alpha.

It an experiment

Let's not stomp on every idea we don't like before actually getting to experience and test it. I see soooo much of that here, I've even been guilty of it myself.

Just over a year ago there was a mantra going around here that said something like, "This game will not be for everybody." I know a lot of us really liked that. I think too many of us read that as, "This game is for me and not everyone else will like it."

 

 

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Types of RNG I am okay with:

 

1. Unavoidable ones... those are generally linked with how the projectile trajectory is approximated and client/server interactions.

2. Critical hits and min/max damages, when they are connected to stats and % in general, that a player can increase or not through character building.

 

We don't need MORE rng that is completely out of player's hands.

And your example is meaningless if all powers attacked specific parts of the body instead of just having average damages.

Well technically most RNG is never completely out of the player hands. Things like crit % and min/max damage ranges are in fact controlled by stats, stats we the players decide to put on our characters through either straight up point allocation at character creation and progression and/or through gear and item use.

 

That's why I asked the question I did on page 1. I'm fine with RNG picking which slot gets hit but just like crit% we should be able to control the amount of RNG that gets applied.

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"This game will not be for everybody."

That quote actually pops into my head every single time there's some new feature/tech/whatever being announced because I remember how that exact quote made me think that this would be some super hardcore Shadowbane 2.0.

 

It honestly does seems more and more like they are trying to appeal to everybody with things like limited abilities, slow-ish combat, RNG, etc.

 

It's actually kinda weird how we went from that whole PLAY2CRUSH SUPER SKILLBASED HARDCORE PVP idea and now we're here with a "game" that probably anyone could pick up and play at a decent level within 2-3 hours tops. I guess that initial thing was just marketing hype.

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I'm a little bit concerned about Leather.

 

 

No damage/Movement malus, strong resistance in nearly all damage except weapons and if you take a look at enchantments for confessors : 

 

 

This look really insane, aren't we going to see clones everywhere like in TESO who claimed you can do everything with armors/weapons and where everyone was running with cloth + staves?

 

Yea and thankfully they've fixed that so everyone wears different armor types and weapons now. Some people even mix and match to get certain bonuses. So yea that's actually a good example of a similar system that started out a bit wonky but figured out how to make it work.

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That's why I asked the question I did on page 1. I'm fine with RNG picking which slot gets hit but just like crit% we should be able to control the amount of RNG that gets applied.

 

If all that RNG determined was which piece of armor lost durability then I'd be ok with that. But it affects our armor enchants. If I have fire resist on my chest to help against Confessors, I'd hope that I get hit on the chest more often than anywhere else. If I do, well then the RNG is pointless and you might as well just make the fire resist affect my entire body and reduce damage equally. If I don't get hit on the chest most of the time then I'm just irritated that I spent all this work getting a cool fire enchant and now it was a waste of time - a waste that I have no control over, no ability to skillfully overcome. What choice do I make then about what to put on my gear if it's impossible to figure out what the outcome will be? Does it even matter at that point if it's so random? I just don't see any positive outcome to this. I like the idea of encouraging people to play with gear and do different things, but RNG is not the way to go about it.

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@Pang: yes I am waiting an answer on that one but I can't see how our stats could influence something like hit chances on different parts of the body.

 

You control the armor you wear. If you choose to wear armor that protects all locations equally then you have removed the chance of getting hit on your weak spot.

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@Pang: yes I am waiting an answer on that one but I can't see how our stats could influence something like hit chances on different parts of the body.

I think an accuracy stat could work. Like the higher your accuracy stat the higher chance you have to hit a slot that is weaker to your attack.

 

Like Blair said here: http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/11647-coming-sooooon-armor-differentiation/?p=268404 Each slot controls a different % of damage mitigation. So if the chest slot is the highest % of mitigation and also the highest chance to get hit by default, then having more accuracy could make it so you have a higher chance to hit another slot with weaker mitigation %.

 

Then on the other side there could be a defensive stat that controls the chance of where you get hit. The higher in that stat the better chance that the attack will hit your chest slot or even any slot that offers the best mitigation to that attack.

 

That's more stats and % to add sure but I think overall the more choices we have to make and the more meaningful choices we can make on how to kit ourselves the better.

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Question: Will there be skill trees dedicated to skewing the RNG of body part decisions, such as armor focus that increases the chance of torso hits, or sword focus that increases chance of leg or head hits? This seems like it might be interesting to play with.

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If all that RNG determined was which piece of armor lost durability then I'd be ok with that. But it affects our armor enchants. If I have fire resist on my chest to help against Confessors, I'd hope that I get hit on the chest more often than anywhere else. If I do, well then the RNG is pointless and you might as well just make the fire resist affect my entire body and reduce damage equally. If I don't get hit on the chest most of the time then I'm just irritated that I spent all this work getting a cool fire enchant and now it was a waste of time - a waste that I have no control over, no ability to skillfully overcome. What choice do I make then about what to put on my gear if it's impossible to figure out what the outcome will be? Does it even matter at that point if it's so random? I just don't see any positive outcome to this. I like the idea of encouraging people to play with gear and do different things, but RNG is not the way to go about it.

Well there's already RNG in the game so kind of missed that boat to rail against I think. Besides like I just said in the post you quoted I don't want it to be pure RNG either. It should be stat controlled RNG like Crit% for example. and like I just said in the reply to Fenris it would work both ways, from the attacking side and the defensive side. So in your example if you want to make it so your chest piece gets hit most and with fire resist then you wear leather chest piece and stack the defense stat that would control the slot hit RNG to make sure your chest gets hit more often then not.  

 

But yeah RNG is already in the game so it doesn't make sense to say "NO RNG!!" at this point. Say no to pure non stat controlled RNG yes by all means though.

Edited by pang
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