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Data diving - Official discussion thread


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great to see this data and your plans going forward.

 

my sentiments about the ranger align entirely with what you said. please take a look at the discussion and suggestions in the following thread!

 

tl;dr:

  • make arrow management about LONG TERM CAMPAIGN and SHORT TERM COMBAT to make melee matter more:
  • make rangers carry a large amount of arrows in their backpack, but can only have a smaller quantity in their quiver at a time.
  • then give them a channeled skill to reload their quiver - making doing so risky in the middle of combat.

I also felt anti healing was required.

 

Will you be evaluating the Legos playstyle options? Compared to the druid their mechanical/effects complexity and playstyle options leave much to be desired. Their resource system feels like it has moved away from initial conception as does other archetype's use of their resource sharing. See my thoughts here

 

question: where is cloth armor? tailoring states that cloth armor exsists, or has that now been dropped and tailoring will be the enchantment crafting tree?

 

if not - where is enchantment crafting in the current division of the crafting tree section?

Edited by Tinnis
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Below you can see who is doing the most killing, normalized by population. It clearly shows the Champion is the most murderous face-smasher by a comfortable margin. By the way, even when you just look at the raw number of kills he's still at #2 behind Confessor despite there being almost twice as many of them. That speaks to his dominance in that area.

You say potato I say potato.

 

You say "[t]hat speaks to his dominance in that area," I say "[t]hat speaks to imbalance and we'll be nerfing that bleed." (Kidding Zybak)

 

I love the data. More please. How about deaths? That I'd love to see.

 

edit: this basically:

 

 

we'll be looking at not only raw kills but cross-kills as well, meaning what archetypes are killing what archetypes.

I suspect you'll see Champ deaths have fallen off a cliff with the 4x leap ability out of SoTM. It's too much IMO.

 

But I'd love to see this data:

 

Class - Kills - Deaths

Edited by coolwaters
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I'm assuming these "kills" are killing blows and not a majority of damage delt. That skews the Champion's data pretty dramatically since they have a bleed and fast hitting 360 AoE that is frequently used and allows us to steal killing blows like crazy.

 

Also Hurlbat is the ultimate killstealing tool. It's incredibly satisfying to hit those long range hurlbats.

Edited by Zybak
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I'm assuming these "kills" are killing blows and not a majority of damage delt. That skews the Champion's data pretty dramatically since they have a bleed that is frequently used and allows us to steal killing blows like crazy.

 

and those sweet HURLBAT snipes...

 

hey everyone:

 

HURLBAT OUT RANGES CONFESSORS AND IS EQUAL TO RANGERS REACH [and can be used instantly on the move]

 

ahem

Edited by Tinnis
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On the topic of the Ranger, the LMB movement was much needed and made the character play so much better.  I actually use melee now, but there is still one problem.  The melee powers still root you in place.  While some of them should root you in place (ones that are a quick jab/slash), others should allow movement such as Slice N Dice (I believe that is what it's called).  That power lasts so long that it's easy for someone to escape while it is being executed.  The data is neat though.  I wouldn't necessarily say that a character being played less than others has issues, the Champ is actually very strong, but it probably doesn't fit many peoples play styles.  I know I would rather have the versatility of the Ranger over just about anything else so far.  I love the potential and the style of the Ranger, it fits me well.

 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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Personally I don't know what the different armors offer; so far the only thing I have seen other than plate is better, is that plate seems like it slows me down more.  Where are the choices that make plate be great for physical resistance, but suck at magical resistance and vice versa for leather.  Maybe those are in the game, but are so inconsequential that damage type doesn't matter yet.

 

The thing I notice about the first set of graphs is that the majority of players seem to want to play ranged types (which would include the fessor); and that melee types are chosen less.  The actual spread of archetypes seems great, and not a fotm type scenario.

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I'm assuming these "kills" are killing blows and not a majority of damage delt. That skews the Champion's data pretty dramatically since they have a bleed and fast hitting 360 AoE that is frequently used and allows us to steal killing blows like crazy.

 

Also Hurlbat is the ultimate killstealing tool. It's incredibly satisfying to hit those long range hurlbats.

Well, Fessor has the best finisher in the game, by far (the "4"). I'd think that if any AT had skewed data based on kills steals it would be Fessor.

 

edit: and ya, Scale needs a better set effect.

Edited by coolwaters
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I'm assuming these "kills" are killing blows and not a majority of damage delt. That skews the Champion's data pretty dramatically since they have a bleed and fast hitting 360 AoE that is frequently used and allows us to steal killing blows like crazy.

 

Also Hurlbat is the ultimate killstealing tool. It's incredibly satisfying to hit those long range hurlbats.

Zybak, great point.  In EvE there were a lot of kill mails that went to tiny frigates with fast guns; even though the majority of damage in fights was done by battleships.

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Personally I don't know what the different armors offer; so far the only thing I have seen other than plate is better, is that plate seems like it slows me down more.  Where are the choices that make plate be great for physical resistance, but suck at magical resistance and vice versa for leather.  Maybe those are in the game, but are so inconsequential that damage type doesn't matter yet.

 

The thing I notice about the first set of graphs is that the majority of players seem to want to play ranged types (which would include the fessor); and that melee types are chosen less.  The actual spread of archetypes seems great, and not a fotm type scenario.

 

Hey Mazon and others - please check out my resource site for a full break down of both base armor effects/resistances and enchantments

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The problem isn't that the ranger melee tray isn't good enough, it's getting people to stop trying to run away and actually use it. Granted if most rangers are wearing leather than they aren't really suitable for getting into melee to begin with since they will be taking extra damage. Which will just continue the cycle of rangers running away since they aren't wearing armor suitable for getting into a melee.

 

I will say though that this does put to bed the notion that the ranger is hardly ever used and horribly broken.

Edited by Remlap
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Well, Fessor has the best finisher in the game, by far (the "4"). I'd think that if any AT had skewed data based on kills steals it would be Fessor.

 

edit: and ya, Scale needs a better set effect.

 

suggestion:

 

make Lego's scale enchantment apply either:

  • a short barrier
  • a short stamina regen buff
  • an offensive buff to attack power or something
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suggestion:

 

make Lego's scale enchantment apply either:

  • a short barrier
  • a short stamina regen buff
  • an offensive buff to attack power or something

 

 

Idk the biggest weakness of scale is the extra damage taken from fessors, however with the extra speed you can be absolutely devastating on a legio. It allows you to maneuver in and out of a fray quite nimbly and deal quite a bit more damage than someone in plate, if you can avoid being taken away by some tornadoes.

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Hey Mazon and others - please check out my resource site for a full break down of both base armor effects/resistances and enchantments

Just took a look at the armor information; and I can't see a reason not to use plate (effective against all damage).  Remove the -10% damage dealt on scale, and then I could see it being a valid choice.

 

I have always thought about the full extremes; 1 type of armor does the most mitigation against physical damage (normally plate), and 1 type does the full mitigation against elemental/organic (normally leather), then the middle armor does half of each (normally scale).   I don't think that damage dealt should even be a calculation on armor.  I do like the mitigation vs speed application; so maybe the scale sets need +2.5% mitigation to go with their speed loss.  It would make more sense from a calc standpoint, because then any base armor mitigation can be calculated as speed loss / 2 = mitigation.  Makes sense in a game setting too, because heavier armor gives better protection, but slows you down more.

 

So yeah, I can see how players would gravitate to a powerful set of armor like plate.

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