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How important the level of crafting skills?


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It seems like the crafting system is not in the game yet but I do have questions about tier system.

 

 

First of all, crafting in CF looks very promising as it was stated that you can play a full-time crafter. I like mmorpg with the idea of not everyone has to join the fight.

 

1: There are 8 different tiers of resources planned. Then, if you are a master of sword crafting, is it possible to make a sword with ore1 and the result to be an acceptable quality of sword for those high level players fighting in Dregs? I expect the sword will be just a plain sword with no magical effect but what about its physical quality?

 

2. Is tier 1 going to be practice materials for beginners that eventually nobody will be looking for or will be literally common materials that majority of players will be using because of its affordability.

I personally prefer the latter. In my opinion, what makes a stronger gear should be the skill of a crafter not the rarity of materials. Otherwise, a player with strong combat profession who can access to higher tier materials with ease will be considered more important.

 

3. I wonder how big the gap in between each tier is in terms of quality or power.

In my opinion benefits of using high tier materials should be certain magical properties rather than more power(defence, damage etc..). For example, however strong the ore1 sword is, it can't kill a vampire. You will need a silver sword.

Another example, an ore1 sword can be as sharp as an ore8 sword but ore8 can contain powerful magics while ore1 will always be plain.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

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1. Different ores give different values.  Gold, iron & steel all give differing values of str.  So the ultra resources will be needed to create the best weapons.  It's not just iron ore and max skill gives you the best weapon; it may be that at max skill you can create the best iron sword possible, but it should be less stats than say a max gold sword.

 

2. Look to EvE and their mineral system; tritanium is one of the most abundant resources, but it is used in almost every recipe.  So the lower quality resources should be needed for everything.

 

3. Not sure, but good question.

 

I'm excited about the direction for crafting, because not only is it being created by someone that had a hand in SWG, it is also going to impact the economy like EvE.  I never had the opportunity/pleasure to play SWG, so this may be the time I get to experience a bit of that type of crafting system.

Edited by Mazon
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2. In my opinion, what makes a stronger gear should be the skill of a crafter not the rarity of materials. Otherwise, a player with strong combat profession who can access to higher tier materials with ease will be considered more important.

 

I believe both the skill of the crafter and quality of the materials should be a factor in determining the efficacy of the item crafted. The best gear should be made by the highest level crafters using the highest level materials. 

 

 

 

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The way that I understand it is that each ore has a specific kind of stat associated with it. The tier of material most likely will increase the effectiveness of that statistic in the final recipe as well as having new ores with different stats. Also, the difficulty of each item will be based on the difficulty of the recipe in addition to the materials you use. All recipes are open to attempt as soon as you learn them but, depending on the difficulty level vs your skill level you'll have a certain percentage chance to craft it. You may also have critical crafting chances and possibly other synergies based on combination of materials, training or other outside modifiers.

 

Usually high tier materials will incur a steep premium on statistics to balance the game. It may be 90% more rare but, only 10% more powerful. This combined with durability loss on items will make it much less common to find gear with perfect stats. You'll see more min/maxing in the easier campaigns like God's Reach.

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All recipes are open to attempt as soon as you learn them but, depending on the difficulty level vs your skill level you'll have a certain percentage chance to craft it. 

 

Are recipes "learned" things where you have to read a book or find a recipe before you can create said item or can anyone just combine different reagents and see if it makes something? I would much prefer the latter where anyone can experiment with found items to "discover" recipes, their chance of success being dependant on the crafter's skill. 

 

 

 

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Are recipes "learned" things where you have to read a book or find a recipe before you can create said item or can anyone just combine different reagents and see if it makes something? I would much prefer the latter where anyone can experiment with found items to "discover" recipes, their chance of success being dependant on the crafter's skill. 

IIRC, everyone has every recipe (at least every basic recipe), meaning that everyone has the same Sword recipe. But what makes Sword 1 different from Sword 2 is what materials were used to craft it. For example, all Swords will need a base Metal Ingot for it to be crafted .If Sword 1 was crafted with Iron Ingots, it'd have high durability, but lower power. If Sword 2 was crafted with Titanium Ingots, it'd have higher power, but lower durability. So there is some discovery in crafting

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I'm excited about the direction for crafting, because not only is it being created by someone that had a hand in SWG, it is also going to impact the economy like EvE.  I never had the opportunity/pleasure to play SWG, so this may be the time I get to experience a bit of that type of crafting system.

I am in the opposite situation. I played SWG but not EvE. In SWG there was 1 to 1000 quality system but this game uses tier system. I was hoping that this won't be something like WoW crafting.

 

 

 

I believe both the skill of the crafter and quality of the materials should be a factor in determining the efficacy of the item crafted. The best gear should be made by the highest level crafters using the highest level materials. 

I think what I said was too one sided. I agree that better materials should give you better quality.

 

If I use cars for example,

T1: Honda, T1 car Civic

T8: Rolls & Royce, T8 car Phantom

It would be a foolish even to try to compare but you won't have a problem in Civic for everyday driving. Even on a highway driving faster than a speed limit, Civic will do just fine. Phantom is most definitely better, no, one of the best car in the world but if you think about the cost, not so practical for commuters.

Assuming there is a car company 'Nerd' and they make a car '50'. It is tier 1 but very cheap, only $1000. You went for test driving and found that max speed on that was only 50kph. Maybe someone will buy it and use it until he get a full driver license. Will he ever come back to Nerd 50? I am sure not.

 

That is what I meant by the quality that skilled smith can do with ore1. It should at least meet the quality of average gear for high level players.

Edited by Alfonso
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The way that I understand it is that each ore has a specific kind of stat associated with it. The tier of material most likely will increase the effectiveness of that statistic in the final recipe as well as having new ores with different stats. Also, the difficulty of each item will be based on the difficulty of the recipe in addition to the materials you use. All recipes are open to attempt as soon as you learn them but, depending on the difficulty level vs your skill level you'll have a certain percentage chance to craft it. You may also have critical crafting chances and possibly other synergies based on combination of materials, training or other outside modifiers.

 

Usually high tier materials will incur a steep premium on statistics to balance the game. It may be 90% more rare but, only 10% more powerful. This combined with durability loss on items will make it much less common to find gear with perfect stats. You'll see more min/maxing in the easier campaigns like God's Reach.

 

IIRC, everyone has every recipe (at least every basic recipe), meaning that everyone has the same Sword recipe. But what makes Sword 1 different from Sword 2 is what materials were used to craft it. For example, all Swords will need a base Metal Ingot for it to be crafted .If Sword 1 was crafted with Iron Ingots, it'd have high durability, but lower power. If Sword 2 was crafted with Titanium Ingots, it'd have higher power, but lower durability. So there is some discovery in crafting

 

If I understand correctly, min/maxing is basically the way to discover good alloy ratio for the product?

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If I understand correctly, min/maxing is basically the way to discover good alloy ratio for the product?

 

I believe the min/max in this case is referring to the fact that it's much more difficult to lose your equipment in the God's Reach than in the Dregs.  Since you won't lose your gear to looting, you can afford to spend a lot of resource value for a tiny increase in power.  You may have to prioritize equipment quantity over quality in the Dregs, since every death can mean a complete and total loss of gear.

 

I think the alloys are less about gaining power, and more about customizing gear to an individual's play style, archetype, and role.  The alloys are used to boost statistics, which could theoretically include any stat in the game.  The better crafters in the game won't necessarily be the ones with the most skill points invested.  Instead, they'll be the ones with the best understanding of what materials are required to tailor gear specifically to the needs of the recipient.

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In the beginning, a lot of crafting will be experimentation. Optimization of resources per item and effectiveness of items per archetype. 

 

Let me clarify what I mean by that.

 

Let's take 3 different items: (these numbers are made up)

1) Helmet - 2 base ore

2) Sword - 2 base ore and 1 wood

3) Breastplate - 4 base ore and 1 base leather

 

The helmet takes 2 ore, the sword takes 2 ore plus a wood and the breastplate takes 4 ore plus leather. As a crafter, I need to figure out which item gives me the most efficient use of resources. This is also not a static calculation because even if helmets are ALWAYS a more efficient item, once everybody has a helmet, their usefulness becomes zero.

 

So you start by weighing your supply against your demand. No matter what, you always have to have somebody who can provide ore for you. Then you have to take inventory of how much wood and leather supply you have. Then you have to weigh the statistics that each item provides you vs the cost of each resource. Then you have to look at things like return on investment (ROI) AKA Is this piece of gear going to provide a positive impact on my supply chain? Is that ROI significant enough to offset the change in supply? How many players do I need to supply for? If I have a guild of 500 people, would it be more effective to make 20% of the population full gear or should I make 100% of the population 1 helmet-a-piece?

 

This is the kind of strategic planning that make crafters good or bad. The fact that you can make the most high end gear in the game with the most expensive materials doesn't matter at all if you have a negative ROI.

 

If you want to break it down to a base level, you can think of crafted items like temporary buffs and resources are just reagents for casting the buff. The effectiveness of your buff depends on who you're casting it on. Casting a +1 intellect buff on 100 people has a higher potential impact than casting a +5 intellect buff on 15 people.

Edited by IdeaMatrix
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I believe the min/max in this case is referring to the fact that it's much more difficult to lose your equipment in the God's Reach than in the Dregs.  Since you won't lose your gear to looting, you can afford to spend a lot of resource value for a tiny increase in power.  You may have to prioritize equipment quantity over quality in the Dregs, since every death can mean a complete and total loss of gear.

 

I think the alloys are less about gaining power, and more about customizing gear to an individual's play style, archetype, and role.  The alloys are used to boost statistics, which could theoretically include any stat in the game.  The better crafters in the game won't necessarily be the ones with the most skill points invested.  Instead, they'll be the ones with the best understanding of what materials are required to tailor gear specifically to the needs of the recipient.

I agree with Hyriol, and think of it this way: my vessel is going to be like my a ship in EvE.  My skills come from my clone and my vessel is just a way for those skills to be utilized.  Gear will be, for lack of a better term, T1/T2 like ship mods in EvE; but in CF we will have the ability to tailor our gear for what vessel we are using.  Losing gear or a vessel in the dregs will not be that devastating because your basic T2 equivalent vessel will suffice just fine in the majority of situations; because the build of your crow skills and then specific subset of archetype skills will be more important.

 

Officer Mods in EvE were only slightly better in most cases than their T2 counterparts, but they commanded a high price on the open market.  The same could be said for gear in CF; the high end gear will command a high price, but the overall stat increase will not be significant.

 

In the beginning, a lot of crafting will be experimentation. Optimization of resources per item and effectiveness of items per archetype. 

 

Let me clarify what I mean by that.

 

Let's take 3 different items: (these numbers are made up)

1) Helmet - 2 base ore

2) Sword - 2 base ore and 1 wood

3) Breastplate - 4 base ore and 1 base leather

 

The helmet takes 2 ore, the sword takes 2 ore plus a wood and the breastplate takes 4 ore plus leather. As a crafter, I need to figure out which item gives me the most efficient use of resources. This is also not a static calculation because even if helmets are ALWAYS a more efficient item, once everybody has a helmet, their usefulness becomes zero.

 

So you start by weighing your supply against your demand. No matter what, you always have to have somebody who can provide ore for you. Then you have to take inventory of how much wood and leather supply you have. Then you have to weigh the statistics that each item provides you vs the cost of each resource. Then you have to look at things like return on investment (ROI) AKA Is this piece of gear going to provide a positive impact on my supply chain? Is that ROI significant enough to offset the change in supply? How many players do I need to supply for? If I have a guild of 500 people, would it be more effective to make 20% of the population full gear or should I make 100% of the population 1 helmet-a-piece?

 

This is the kind of strategic planning that make crafters good or bad. The fact that you can make the most high end gear in the game with the most expensive materials doesn't matter at all if you have a negative ROI.

 

If you want to break it down to a base level, you can think of crafted items like temporary buffs and resources are just reagents for casting the buff. The effectiveness of your buff depends on who you're casting it on. Casting a +1 intellect buff on 100 people has a higher potential impact than casting a +5 intellect buff on 15 people.

Return on Investment only matters if you are trying to make a profit.  Some crafters will not care of about the profit aspect, but instead focus on the creation aspect.  Merchants on the other hand should be very interested on ROI.  Most guild crafters I have ever played with are concerned first with making their guildmates battle ready, and second making a profit.  Don't get me wrong, there is still profit to be made even among guildmates, but based on pure ROI, crafting for a guild in my opinion offers a lower ceiling for ROI, than setting up as a neutral crafter.  I know guys were making a profit in selling Rifters in EvE out in 0.0 sec, and they had a set distribution chain that made life really easy for them; but with a bit more work they could have seen their profits (or ROI) increase by almost double.  Most times they were more interested in making just enough to cover their PvP habits and not looking for a max ROI.

 

TLDR: Each crafter will be motivated by different things and ROI may take a back seat to other aspects of the game.

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Return on investment doesn't only apply to making a profit. It's a way of measuring the value of each item you create. It may gain value by keeping your guild member alive, by increasing your net worth or allowing you to win a battle that secures a mineral POI.

 

Putting it in terms of another game, in Counter-Strike you buy a gun to kill people and it costs a certain amount of money. If you kill enough people, you gain back the value of the gun, otherwise you lose your ability to buy more guns. This is why in competitive games, they have what are called "Eco rounds." Players intentionally gain value by buying cheaper weapons in order to swing the balance of the game in their favor. In a game like Crowfall, you will have to make decisions about how to spend your resources because not only do you have to deal with death loss and durability loss, you also have to deal with dwindling available resources over time. It may not be a good idea to give your guild full armor in the spring if you won't have any armor left by winter.

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