Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Chaqaron

Cash shop after release?

Recommended Posts

It writes there will be only costume items in cashop. Is that means there wont be Parcels, Castles, basicaly EK stuff after release? Because its effect some game play style in some point and these EK stuff can count as P2W. 

 

Other subject is tradeable VIP service, I saw some games people buy tons of VIP with real money$$$$$ and sell them for game resource and it turns the game a P2W game (example: Archeage fails because of that). 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are already selling stuff for the EK:
https://backers.crowfall.com/#/store/kingdom

This type of EK stuff is really no different from cosmetic stuff so its not really P2W.

As for trade-able VIP services: Archaege was designed to be P2W ground up, having an item tied to real world money isn't the problem (EVE does this, even WoW does this now). Not to mention the import rules to campaigns keeps the playing field level when going into a new campaign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They said cosmetic items, not costume items, there is a difference. Cosmetic can be weapon/armor skins, special mount skins, mini pets, portable merchants, parcels, fort/keep/castle upgrades, character slots, and numerous other things that won't actually give anyone an advantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for my knowledge we can put some resource spawns and mob spawns in to our EK. If Someone can spam his EK with Mob/resources and harvest them for crafting and

use them for lvling related skill tree before anyone else. Its looks like p2w to me. Because he can come campaign with high lvl skill . Not sure how this effect in crowfall because campaigns and EK designs not finished yet. Cash shop is looks normal to me for now. I am just hoping not living another Archeage failure:( It was very good at beta then everything changed after game released p2w, bugs, exploits, bots...

Edited by Chaqaron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They said cosmetic items, not costume items, there is a difference. Cosmetic can be weapon/armor skins, special mount skins, mini pets, portable merchants, parcels, fort/keep/castle upgrades, character slots, and numerous other things that won't actually give anyone an advantage.

 

There won't be any character slot because they changed system with crows. You have one crow you lvl up its skills. 1 crow--> all archetypes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There won't be any character slot because they changed system with crows. You have one crow you lvl up its skills. 1 crow--> all archetypes

It was an example of what a cosmetic item would be. There probably won't be portable merchants either but again it was just an example of what a cosmetic item could be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for my knowledge we can put some resource spawns and mob spawns in to our EK. If Someone can spam his EK with Mob/resources and harvest them for crafting and

use them for lvling related skill tree before anyone else. Its looks like p2w to me. Because he can come campaign with high lvl skill . Not sure how this effect in crowfall because campaigns and EK designs not finished yet. Cash shop is looks normal to me for now. I am just hoping not living another Archeage failure:( It was very good at beta then everything changed after game released p2w, bugs, exploits, bots...

Skills increase over time. There is no "leveling up" no matter how much stuff you buy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skills increase over time. There is no "leveling up" no matter how much stuff you buy.

 

Are you sure there is not other way for lvl up?  Because crafting/explore/combat skill can be lvl up with using resource,fighting,harvesting etc.... If not there is no point mob/resource spawn in to your EK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It writes there will be only costume items in cashop. Is that means there wont be Parcels, Castles, basicaly EK stuff after release? Because its effect some game play style in some point and these EK stuff can count as P2W. 

 

Other subject is tradeable VIP service, I saw some games people buy tons of VIP with real money$$$$$ and sell them for game resource and it turns the game a P2W game (example: Archeage fails because of that). 

Their cash shop will be p2w to a degree, probably more than is kosher but those of us that stick to low import campaigns won't really suffer from it as much.  People that play outer band high import meta will benefit from having sprawling EKs with all the best buildings and such.

 

VIP tokens will be p2w, but it remains to be seen what limitations they will put on the trading of vip tokens.  If you can bring them into a campaign and trade them that's definitely p2w.  

 

Some people try to attach an unreasonable definition to p2w where you can only win if you pay, but the reality of it is if 2 people are equally skilled and earn equal stuff in game then one spends RL money to deck his character out he is paying 2 win. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Their cash shop will be p2w to a degree, probably more than is kosher but those of us that stick to low import campaigns won't really suffer from it as much.  People that play outer band high import meta will benefit from having sprawling EKs with all the best buildings and such.

 

VIP tokens will be p2w, but it remains to be seen what limitations they will put on the trading of vip tokens.  If you can bring them into a campaign and trade them that's definitely p2w.  

 

Some people try to attach an unreasonable definition to p2w where you can only win if you pay, but the reality of it is if 2 people are equally skilled and earn equal stuff in game then one spends RL money to deck his character out he is paying 2 win. 

I agree with you. I have a experience with a strategy game Stronghold Kingdoms. In that game every 3-4 month new world open.  Every opening of new world some player using cash power to building instant Castles and Armies. If VIP status can be tradeable at campaigns, it is equal to $$=resource.  situtation.  On the other hand, this p2w risk depends on demand.  I suspiciously approaching these tradeable cash shop items because they can directly exchangeable with

 game resources in campaigns or in EK. EKs are also important because we dont know anything about import/export ratios.

I suspiciously approaching

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you sure there is not other way for lvl up? Because crafting/explore/combat skill can be lvl up with using resource,fighting,harvesting etc.... If not there is no point mob/resource spawn in to your EK.

Yes, I am.

No they don't. Skills increase over time not through use. You don't kill monsters or forge iron daggers or whatever to increase your skill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VIP tokens will be p2w, but it remains to be seen what limitations they will put on the trading of vip tokens.  If you can bring them into a campaign and trade them that's definitely p2w. 

 

We have so few details about how trading, crafting, looting, victory conditions, group / guilds and all the other systems will work that we can't really affirm that VIP tokens will be p2w. It will depend on the decisions ACE make.

 

What is generally understood by "Pay 2 win" is: obtaining an important/significant gameplay advantage in the game over the competitors/opponents by spending more money on the game.

 

As long as we don't have a confirmation that spending more money in the store grants a significant gameplay advantage, I think it's fallacious to claim that "VIP tokens will be p2w".

Edited by courant101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Import rules will regulate how much people can bring in. If we all can only bring in the same amount then no one would have an advantage. Now the ease to which it takes everyone bring in that same amount is something we don't know yet. For one thing we don't know what those that bring back the higher tiered resources are willing to sell/trade them for. If most of it is traded for VIPs then real world cash will help players monopolize these hire tiered goods. However, if there are other things such as gold or favors that most are looking to sell high end tiers for the in game economy will balance out and cash will have only a marginal impact on the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have so few details about how trading, crafting, looting, victory conditions, group / guilds and all the other systems will work that we can't really affirm that VIP tokens will be p2w. It will depend on the decisions ACE make.

 

What is generally understood by "Pay 2 win" is: obtaining an important/significant gameplay advantage in the game over the competitors/opponents by spending more money on the game.

 

As long as we don't have a confirmation that spending more money in the store grants a significant gameplay advantage, I think it's fallacious to claim that "VIP tokens will be p2w".

Min/max players make what is perceived as unimportant or insignificant advantages into big ones.  They are all significant if you know how to use them.

 

VIP tokens will be p2w, the question is to what extent they will be. 

 

They are an officially supported method to turn real life money into in game goods.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Min/max players make what is perceived as unimportant or insignificant advantages into big ones.  They are all significant if you know how to use them.

 

VIP tokens will be p2w, the question is to what extent they will be. 

 

No. They will be p2w only if they meet the criteria that are commonly accepted. Claiming that "VIP tokens will be p2w" doesn't make VIP tickets more or less p2w. There's no game yet. We've no way to predict stuff like that. Time will tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. They will be p2w only if they meet the criteria that are commonly accepted. Claiming that "VIP tokens will be p2w" doesn't make VIP tickets more or less p2w. There's no game yet. We've no way to predict stuff like that. Time will tell.

No matter what system they propose, from what we know of them so far, they will be p2w.  They will allow you to take real life money and turn it into in game stuff... That will always give them the ability to be p2w, again it is a matter of degree.  They probably won't do much in low import campaigns, they can play a huge role in high import campaigns.

 

Nothing is absolute in life but you can project how certain things shake out based on experience... anything that allows real life money to be used to get in game stuff that actually impacts gameplay is always open to p2w.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No matter what system they propose, from what we know of them so far, they will be p2w.  They will allow you to take real life money and turn it into in game stuff... That will always give them the ability to be p2w, again it is a matter of degree.  They probably won't do much in low import campaigns, they can play a huge role in high import campaigns.

 

If the commonly accepted definition of P2W was "any advantage, no matter how little it is, granted by spending money in the store", then you'd be right. But what players generally understand when they read "P2W" is "a significant gameplay advantage granted by spending money in the store".

 

Example: League of Legends sells cosmetic skins. Those costumes sometimes grant (very) minor advantages (e.g. the projectiles are harder to see depending on the color and shape). Do people generally consider League of Legends p2w? I think not. It's not significant enough to claim that LoL is P2W.

 

So, as I said, I suggest to wait and see what Crowfall is about and how the VIP tokens work with all the other systems, figure out if the VIP tokens grant a significant gameplay advantage over other players, and if it's the case then we may be able to determine to what extent those tokens are p2w.

Edited by courant101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the commonly accepted definition of P2W was "any advantage, no matter how little it is, granted by spending money in the store", then you'd be right. But what players generally understand when they read "P2W" is "a significant gameplay advantage granted by spending money in the store".

 

Example: League of Legends sells cosmetic skins. Those costumes sometimes grant (very) minor advantages (e.g. the projectiles are harder to see depending on the color and shape). Do people generally consider League of Legends p2w? I think not. It's not significant enough to claim that LoL is P2W.

 

So, as I said, I suggest to wait and see what Crowfall is about and how the VIP tokens work with all the other systems, figure out if the VIP tokens grant a significant gameplay advantage over other players, and if it's the case then we may be able to determine to what extent those tokens are p2w.

Any advantage can be compounded into a big one if enough money is spent... again it is a matter of degree... LoL isn't p2w if the skins do not impact gameplay itself.

 

If 2 equallly skilled LoL players play the game and one spends 1000 dollars for everything he can get gameplay advantage wise, he will win.

 

Edit:  It seems pretty obvious that ACE understands they can make some money off of a few p2w elements without destroying the whole game.  This is why they have import/export rules...  Uncle Bob scenarios will exist, for those that like playing them in the rulesets that will facilitate them, and it won't exist in the very barebone rulesets... P2W is just another manifestation of uncle bob, it will exist in certain rulesets with certain groups... but it will not be universally relevant because it will have little to no bearing on certain other rulesets. 

 

This is actually not awful on ACE's part because it gives people more things to spend money on, without ruining the integrity of more competitive rulesets... also ACE said from the getgo they aren't going to lose sleep over balance, once you stop caring about balance, p2w isn't as concerning. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any advantage can be compounded into a big one if enough money is spent... again it is a matter of degree... LoL isn't p2w if the skins do not impact gameplay itself.

 

If 2 equallly skilled LoL players play the game and one spends 1000 dollars for everything he can get gameplay advantage wise, he will win.

 

Some interesting videos imo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a8f-x89QPI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc-Wd3jIM7k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-c6GeYzFSI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok in those cases the skins impact gameplay... that could be considered paying money for an in game advantage. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...