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Though we was not having combat healing?


Bremmen
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Maybe I'm wrong but one of the things that sold me on this game was the combat would have healers but its seems like a complete 180 on this or am i wrong? I know that they said OFC healing would exist but i always assumed that healers would not be a thing but they clearly are?

Hey just Shout Bremmen and he will, Rise and Destroy the people you wish decimated :o

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Ummm, there were already several discussions about this. They stated "no firehosehealing" (correctly spelled? well anyway xD), that doesn't mean "no healing at all". With the druid, as far as I experienced, you're not able to non-stop heal someone/ prevent him dying at all, even with three druids doing a happy alternating healdance, it's pretty hard to keep a whole group of people completely healed all times.

So yeah....we're having healers and supporters, but they're not almighty......'tis the best I can tell you.

 

Although I think that there have been some dumb misunderstandings with this, and that ACE maybe could have done a better job explaining this but.....the combat doesn't feel bad, so it's ok, for me.

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6. DOES THE GAME USE THE “TRINITY SYSTEM” OF CLASS BALANCE (TANK, DPS AND HEALER)?

Some elements, yes, but overall, not really.
 
We have characters that are more offensive. We have characters that are more defensive. We have characters with support powers. But we made the game purposefully light on in-combat healing, to make it more deadly.
 
We’ve opened up the character customization options (through promotion classes and disciplines) to make each character a mixed bag of skills and powers. Each archetype starts with predisposition towards a certain playstyle, but after that the game system really opens up and allows you to adapt your character any way you like.
 
7. WHY DE-EMPHASIZE COMBAT HEALING?
In more traditional MMO’s, combat healing adds a multiplier to each combatant’s effective hit points. A group’s guardian isn’t just managing one health bar, his “effective” health pool is equal to his personal health bar multiplied by their support healers’ mana-driven powers.
 
This makes a lot of sense for games that focus around player-versus environment combat where the monsters have thousands of hit points, especially raids. It makes less sense in a game focused on skill-based player-versus-player combat. Since Crowfall doesn’t have PvE raiding we don’t really need super powerful healing.
 
8. YOU DON'T HAVE HEALER? THAT'S WHAT I PLAY!
Our intent is for the support archetypes to have key buffs, debuffs and physics related powers at a cost of damage or defensive capability. That isn't to say there won't be healing. There will be options with archetypes and disciplines to pick up healing powers. We just didn't want to make the traditional firehose style healer that most "trinity" combat systems use.
 
Like most attacks in Crowfall, healing requires the caster to aim and properly land heals. There are a variety of different methods of healing targeting such as reticle target, projectiles, ground targeting, trap style and reactive.

Source: http://crowfall.com/faq/combat/#6

 

I think they are still following their original design goals.

Edited by Canth

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IMO the biggest "issue" with healing is the legios giant ass radius heal that heals for far too much and takes zero skill/thought process to land.  The legios heals are way stronger than the druid, especially cause they have access to them more often than the druid.

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IMO the biggest "issue" with healing is the legios giant ass radius heal that heals for far too much and takes zero skill/thought process to land.  The legios heals are way stronger than the druid, especially cause they have access to them more often than the druid.

 

I think the amount the Druid can heal just right. Most of the time I dont even get healed in combat but I retreat to like a "medic tent" to get back up.

 

The legio on the other hand ... can bring up 3 (or 4?) characters from 20% back to like 80% again with a press of C. In a group to group fight the one with the most legios wins, from my experience. 

 

TO answer the question: I thought the same but I was aware that they never said that it would be no healing. It just won't be "firehose healing" like in WoW where you just sit back and watch life bars.

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I think the amount the Druid can heal just right. Most of the time I dont even get healed in combat but I retreat to like a "medic tent" to get back up.

 

The legio on the other hand ... can bring up 3 (or 4?) characters from 20% back to like 80% again with a press of C. In a group to group fight the one with the most legios wins, from my experience. 

 

TO answer the question: I thought the same but I was aware that they never said that it would be no healing. It just won't be "firehose healing" like in WoW where you just sit back and watch life bars.

i'd just like to state that the Lego C alone is not as powerful as you state. it can heal a range of say 8-15k depending of random dice roll and training. it can heal a max of 5 groups members and yourself. a lego can combine the cast with eternal rage for a fast group pick up but certainly not 20% to 80%

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Maybe I'm wrong but one of the things that sold me on this game was the combat would have healers but its seems like a complete 180 on this or am i wrong? I know that they said OFC healing would exist but i always assumed that healers would not be a thing but they clearly are?

as someone that has played 'firehose healers' in the past e.g WoW and pure healers in Daoc - where you gameplay is almost exclusively devoted to playing whack-a-mole health bars i was initially cautious about their design goal statements on healing.

 

however when i understood that healing would still be present in the game - just in smaller quantities - the idea clicked with me and is the superior choice for enjoyable gameplay, tactics and balance.

 

i also enjoyed the sort of similar philosphy used in guild wars 2 which generally lacked the trinity of heal, dps, tank set to specific classes.

 

for instance - going back to Daoc as the example - i vastly prefered the gameplay style and options of hybrid or even non-healing support classes.

 

e.g. more broader support classes provding key buffs, debuffs and crowd control effects either alone or alongside healing responbilities.

 

basically preventative effects like barriers, mitigation, reflects and lifesteal are more dynamic and interesting than a spammable 'oops nevermind' heal button you can use when 5 guys are trying to kill your ally.

 

another example of a game franchise that implemented this change for the better between sequels - dragon age.

 

dragon age 1 and 2 had powerful and required healing powers available. you would always take them.

 

however in dragon age 3 they made the bold decision to remove the majority of heal powers. instead barriers and mitagation powers were required in combination with a small dark souls style number of health potions in limited quantities and cooldowns. much better gameplay and tactical effects.

Edited by Tinnis
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The selective memory here is rather absurd, they said more than "no fire hose healing", they also said "low in combat healing" and that support classes would rely on more physics based powers and alternatives to aid their team instead of fire hose healing.

 

Parroting the no fire hose healing as if that's the only thing they offered is deceitful, as if that's not a completely subjective judgement on how much healing is a little or a lot, what's not subjective is whether the healing methods are being limited during combat and whether the support classes are given alternative defensive actions to diversify the way they're sustaining allies.

 

Get real.

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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IMO the biggest "issue" with healing is the legios giant ass radius heal that heals for far too much and takes zero skill/thought process to land.  The legios heals are way stronger than the druid, especially cause they have access to them more often than the druid.

I actually think that the legios '2' heal is also a self heal is the biggest problem with their healing ability.  Drop that to single target, make it a little stronger on that target, and then buff their damage, IMO

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The selective memory here is rather absurd, they said more than "no fire hose healing", they also said "low in combat healing" and that support classes would rely on more physics based powers and alternatives to aid their team instead of fire hose healing.

 

Parroting the no fire hose healing as if that's the only thing they offered is deceitful, as if that's not a completely subjective judgement on how much healing is a little or a lot, what's not subjective is whether the healing methods are being limited during combat and whether the support classes are given alternative defensive actions to diversify the way they're sustaining allies.

 

Get real.

I like the druid healing mechanics.  The rain is nice and short.  I like the orb idea and the Direct Heal bolt.  

I think the orbs should have a short fizzle timer: maybe 15 seconds, if they aren't picked up, they pop.

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The selective memory here is rather absurd, they said more than "no fire hose healing", they also said "low in combat healing" and that support classes would rely on more physics based powers and alternatives to aid their team instead of fire hose healing.

 

Parroting the no fire hose healing as if that's the only thing they offered is deceitful, as if that's not a completely subjective judgement on how much healing is a little or a lot, what's not subjective is whether the healing methods are being limited during combat and whether the support classes are given alternative defensive actions to diversify the way they're sustaining allies.

 

Get real.

Except that more they did say actually was posted in the second response and others went into more detail beyond that one statement.

 

Selective comprehension indeed.

 

 

I like the druid healing mechanics.  The rain is nice and short.  I like the orb idea and the Direct Heal bolt.  

I think the orbs should have a short fizzle timer: maybe 15 seconds, if they aren't picked up, they pop.

Agree, so far I haven't seen all these so called broken promises with healing some claim. Seems like they are hitting on pretty much all the points they made as shown in the FAQ entry's posted above.

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And I like cheese cake, that doesn't change its nutritional value. I'm clarifying ACEs claim to their actions, not adopter approval.

 

If they are just going to cave on every unique aspect that is suppose to set Crowfall apart, they should have just stuck to Wildstar clone. ACE offered a variety of unique features to set this game apart and said they would not change for broader appeal.

 

And that's exactly not what their doing, we've got heal reliant supports utilizing virtually 0 protective and obstructive alternatives, animation locking is skating out the window, and for tactics?, how about some damage splitting?

 

The best excuse they could produce is incompetence, but I'm not that optimistic.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

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i'd just like to state that the Lego C alone is not as powerful as you state. it can heal a range of say 8-15k depending of random dice roll and training. it can heal a max of 5 groups members and yourself. a lego can combine the cast with eternal rage for a fast group pick up but certainly not 20% to 80%

 

Maybe not 20 to 80%, but still far better than anything the Druid can do in terms of heal by a vast margin. And more importantly, not only is it stronger than Druid's heals, but also requires no aiming and very little skill and can be cast faster (some of them can even be cast on the move, with the exception of #2). Plus you self heal at the same time that you're healing others. That makes Legio so easy to play. 

 

When they announced the Druid I was kinda bracing myself to see some very strong heals from the Druid because it was obvious it was going to be harder to cast, require aiming, etc. But in fact, it's the opposite. The heals are weaker. I suppose it's ok, since the Druid can output some good dps, specially AoE. Just took some time getting used to it, that the Legio is still the main healer. Maybe promotion classes and whatnot can turn the Druid into a more capable healer. 

 

 

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Maybe not 20 to 80%, but still far better than anything the Druid can do in terms of heal by a vast margin. And more importantly, not only is it stronger than Druid's heals, but also requires no aiming and very little skill and can be cast faster (some of them can even be cast on the move, with the exception of #2). Plus you self heal at the same time that you're healing others. That makes Legio so easy to play. 

 

When they announced the Druid I was kinda bracing myself to see some very strong heals from the Druid because it was obvious it was going to be harder to cast, require aiming, etc. But in fact, it's the opposite. The heals are weaker. I suppose it's ok, since the Druid can output some good dps, specially AoE. Just took some time getting used to it, that the Legio is still the main healer. Maybe promotion classes and whatnot can turn the Druid into a more capable healer. 

 

agreed and i've raised my concern of the 'easy lego' vs 'hard druid' problems for long term gameplay as only 2 support options

 

and currently yes lego is easier AND more effective to be a heal bot with

 

now in SP...druid has uncapped ALLIED healing that vastly outclasses what the lego can do (lego can only bellow one non group member) vs druid wisp + rain on a mass group of allies with no max target limit

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...

 

now in SP...druid has uncapped ALLIED healing that vastly outclasses what the lego can do (lego can only bellow one non group member) vs druid wisp + rain on a mass group of allies with no max target limit

 

That is true. Also I'm curious to see how much of an advantage the longer range of Druid heals turns out to be in sieges and similar situations. If wall to ground fighting becomes a thing as it is in other siege MMO's, I can see that as a big advantage as well. 

 

 

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That is true. Also I'm curious to see how much of an advantage the longer range of Druid heals turns out to be in sieges and similar situations. If wall to ground fighting becomes a thing as it is in other siege MMO's, I can see that as a big advantage as well. 

 

on top of their amazing area control powers

 

(orb caches, blight fields, wicked winds, aurora) 

 

oh and if nature's avatar works on catapults..................... ¬_¬

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on top of their amazing area control powers

 

(orb caches, blight fields, wicked winds, aurora) 

 

oh and if nature's avatar works on catapults..................... ¬_¬

You know, if NA works on catapults, it might work on ballistas. Catapult v Ballista counterplay!

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is this from the original Kickstarter Pitch?

It's pre Kickstarter, and if ppl actually read it, you'd see the first statement is "light in-combat healing", "no firehose healing" is an additional reinforcement afterward, yet ppl act like that's the only expectation.

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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