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toxophile

Crafting Magical Spells?!

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One thing I have never personally seen in an MMO is the ability to craft magical spells along with magical gear. How cool would it be to have a general template for different kinds of magical spells, and to be able to 'fill' those templates with different effects, creating a sort-unique spell to use?

 

I want an offensive (damaging) spell that is an area effect and uses fire. I have to use some lava rock for fire, and a mushroom spore pod to enable the AOE. Then I have to balance what the AOE diameter will be versus the range at which the spell will travel before it detonates.

 

Maybe I want a defensive spell that renders me invisible, and also able to breathe water. I use a minnow for the transformation of having gill's for the duration of the spell, plus chameloeon skin for the invisibility. Then I could decide to make the spell very long duration with no secondary effect, or a shorter duration and add a fish fin to boost my movement rate underwater.

 

It would be cool for those who choose the magical disciplines to be able to customize their abilties. And they could make scrolls or potions and sell them to others to use as well.


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Cool concept, but 1) balancing that is a nightmare, 2) implementing it is probably an even bigger nightmare. They'd either need to dedicate a ton of time on an extremely modular spell system, or let players write arbitrary Lua scripts to design abilities, or something. There's 0.1% chance of either of those happening.

 

Closest practical alternative would be very fine-tuned specialization.

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The ability to craft unique spells just cant be done.However what they can do is make spell progression trees like something in ESO.

If you have a fire bolt spell you can further customize it with 2 options (i think there should be more),for example,you can tune it to deal extra dot dmg or stun the target for 1 sec.

If there were about 5 or more options for each spell,and each one changing the way the spell looks,the chanses that you will find a player with the exact same skill set as you is damn hard (concidering you have at least 15-20 spells you can choose from,which is reasonable for an MMO).

This would add a ridiculous amount of variety to classes and every player would be unique. Unless you post your damn build for everyone to se. :D

Edited by StiviRibar

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I really like this idea :3, I mean like if this game is all that they're hyping it up to be, I'm kinda expecting something that's really rare and unique :). The next closest thing I can think of is the old WoW talent tree system where you can slightly modify your spells by putting talents in them. But to actually craft your spells? What a cool idea :D


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Sugoi - Student Council President

 

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Crafting unique spells sounds fairly viable. The trick is to create a series of possible spell effects and then build a crafting system that lets them interact. Constraints like Synergy can be added and then abused. 

 

For example Hardened Armor could be an Earth Synergy spell attribute. If you were to combine Hardened Armor as an attribute with Immovable (an Earth Synergy effect to prevent most forced move effects) it'd combine well and result in a spell that has good power in both attributes. However if you combine Hardened Armor with Levitation (an Air Synergy effect that opposes Earth) it would result in reduced power for one and/or both effects depending on how the player spent their crafting points. From there the player could obtain rare resources, or train skills that let them manipulate Synergy. A skilled crafters could make a Immovable and Levitation appear in good strength on the same item even those those effects would generally completely counteract each other.

 

The example above assumes that there is some type of cost on casting spells and combining spells might be better than trying to use each separately. 

We could also assume that some spells cancel others and the only way to have both available at a time is to combine them.

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So in the known MMO world we have mostly active and passive spells.Also there are "hybrid" spell if you can call them that.

 

Example of active spell: Cleave-warrior slashes all enemies in front of him....

Example of passive spell: Hard skin-warrior takes 5% reduced dmg from all incoming dmg...

Example of "hybrid" spell: Wuju style :) -warrior has passively increased attack damage and can activate the spell to double the amount.The passive effect doesnt work untill the spell cools down.

Another example of the "hybrid" spell: Second wind -when warriors health falls below 30%,he/she rappidly starts to heal for 20% of max hp.The effect cannot work more than once every 5 minutes.

 

Which of these kinds would you like to see in Crowfall?

 

Or do you think we need something different? :huh:

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I've wanted to do something like this forever but the stars really would need to align to make it work and I'll hit on some of the major hurdles:
MMORPG character classes are typically built from a very "top-down" perspective. Ie fire mages typically have fire spells that fit a very specific role (pure ranged damage). If the fire mage were allowed to cast a fireball that also rooted the target, then he is infringing on the role of the crowd control role. You don't have to build your classes like this, but designers like to.

 

Zarithas hit on the Balance and technical problems on the head. Ultimately you could make a very modular system where each module is point balanced and a spell could only have a certain amount of points put into it. It would just feel very generic, since the modules would have most of the elements predefined to ensure the spell actually worked when you pressed the button. (There are tons of variables in your average spell)

 

Then there's the social aspect where the quality of your spells will be judged by group mates who are letting you into a group and expect you to fulfill a specific role. The types of spells that are "the best" will circulate and while you might appreciate the spell you created, others will not. Your spell has a cool particle effect and AoE module instead of a single target damage with a 2 target cleave module. This does not fit what everyone knows to be best! You are berated and maybe kicked from the group.

 

Again, could be done, it just fails the should be done check. This system would be much better for a game more similar to Minecraft where the player is a very generic character, and not trying to fill a specific role, not going to be judged by peers. I have a doc ready to go if I ever work on a project where this system would fit though!


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MMORPG character classes are typically built from a very "top-down" perspective. Ie fire mages typically have fire spells that fit a very specific role (pure ranged damage). If the fire mage were allowed to cast a fireball that also rooted the target, then he is infringing on the role of the crowd control role. You don't have to build your classes like this, but designers like to.

 

 

It's a bit different but Professions in SWG allowed the player to "Craft" their builds and with such their skill bar. Instead of unique spell crafting as a pre-cast concept crafting could really be a result of build decisions. 

In a case like Fire Mage vs. Control Mage I'd expect they each have an initial buy-in that makes it more difficult to cross those builds but it would be possible. That brings in a lot of theory craft. It's not great for trying to find balance but it's pretty darn good at engaging that chunk of the player base that lives to find the various ways they can play their class and really get into build smithing.

Transistor actually has a pretty decent version of spell crafting that would match up with this idea.

Edited by Django

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I've always preferred SWG's system to any other I've experienced. Darkfall was the only one recently who got close to it, but they didn't have a cap and a jack-of-all-trades ensued.


Cannibal Man - Future serial killer

I can't even.  You win, I am done with this part of the discussion.

 

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CC spells you cant dispel/break somehow

 

absolutely hate those

 

Lol hate those.I once played a game where there was a class that had a hypnotize spell that stuns the enemy player for 40 sec....and it wouldnt break unless they recive dmg.This was a ridiculous way to get enemy healers out of comision for the entire duration of the fight.

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Again, could be done, it just fails the should be done check. This system would be much better for a game more similar to Minecraft where the player is a very generic character, and not trying to fill a specific role, not going to be judged by peers. I have a doc ready to go if I ever work on a project where this system would fit though!

I don't know. I don't see this being too bad. After posting it, I got to thinking about an elemental approach to it, where the elements either expand or detract the overall effect. A Fire spell as a base could be modded with Air or Earth, but not Water. Air spells modded by Fire or Water, but not Earth, etc.... Think MTG and Avatar elemental bending. A fifth 'element' like Astral or Void could be more utilitarian and offer some other unique bits and pieces.

 

As for Best In Slot crap... will the fact that a spell built with XYZ have an extra 3% damage, or a .082 second longer stun really matter in a game that apparently is going to be mostly PvP? There aren't rotation here (it's not tab-targetting, is it?). And the balance would be built right in. Adding more damage to a spell might boost the mana cost, or lengthen the cooldown on all magic use, or root the player for a extra couple seconds. That fire spell from before, using lava, might also light the ground where the mage is standing on fire, making him sink a few inches into the ground, taking damage and getting snared. The radius of this effect would grow along with the AOE power I pump into it (determined beforehand), making it harder for me to get out of the area (and possibly damaging friendlies).

 

If the system is robust enough, it would be harder to find BiS formula's. And since players have to go out and learn about this stuff.... every element, every mod, every permutation.... PLUS get the components to craft them spells, it would provide a cool amount of variety. Heck, use the MTG system where picking how (or if) to mix or match elements you learn is part of your overall character strategy.

Edited by Toxophile

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I've wanted to do something like this forever but the stars really would need to align to make it work and I'll hit on some of the major hurdles:

MMORPG character classes are typically built from a very "top-down" perspective. Ie fire mages typically have fire spells that fit a very specific role (pure ranged damage). If the fire mage were allowed to cast a fireball that also rooted the target, then he is infringing on the role of the crowd control role. You don't have to build your classes like this, but designers like to.

 

Zarithas hit on the Balance and technical problems on the head. Ultimately you could make a very modular system where each module is point balanced and a spell could only have a certain amount of points put into it. It would just feel very generic, since the modules would have most of the elements predefined to ensure the spell actually worked when you pressed the button. (There are tons of variables in your average spell)

 

Then there's the social aspect where the quality of your spells will be judged by group mates who are letting you into a group and expect you to fulfill a specific role. The types of spells that are "the best" will circulate and while you might appreciate the spell you created, others will not. Your spell has a cool particle effect and AoE module instead of a single target damage with a 2 target cleave module. This does not fit what everyone knows to be best! You are berated and maybe kicked from the group.

 

Again, could be done, it just fails the should be done check. This system would be much better for a game more similar to Minecraft where the player is a very generic character, and not trying to fill a specific role, not going to be judged by peers. I have a doc ready to go if I ever work on a project where this system would fit though!

if I get to a game, and I want to be a mystic, but the mystic ends up being just a healing class, when I want to be a combat mystic, and theres no way for me to be a combat mystic. I quit that game.


#CrowFallBata


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if I get to a game, and I want to be a mystic, but the mystic ends up being just a healing class, when I want to be a combat mystic, and theres no way for me to be a combat mystic. I quit that game.

 

Hopefully this is where Promotion Classes come in to play.

 

Nowadays people consider Clerics to be strictly healers, but they actually have a long of history of being played as Battle Clerics in various RPGs (both digital and pen & paper).

Edited by Teekey

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