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Durin

Role-playing Campaign World

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Role-playing servers have existed (and have been popular) in MMORPGs for a long time.  I have often played on them, though I do not consider myself to be a "hardcore" role-player--I simply appreciate game lore, immersion and basic RP.  Because ACE has stated they could give campaign worlds a variety of individual settings, it seems obvious that this hallmark of the MMORGP should be considered.  I've listed my ideas below on how I think it might be best handled.     

 

1. RP CWs could exist on any band.  However, RP would have more freedom with rule sets similar to those found in the Shadows and Dregs.  That stated, vessel destruction/looting might have somewhat debatable value among RPers.  I would think something along all vs. all with no vessel destruction/looting might be most appropriate. 

 

2.  Low import and no export.  The low import exists for balance and to reduce some types of griefing.  The no export restriction helps to limit the population to those who want to participate in a RP CW, not primarily farm it for resources (in my mind, this is essential).  This will also reduce griefing/exploitation.  There should be full looting (with the exception of vessel looting).  Import might look something like this:

1 vessel (maybe 2, but it should be low)

Up to 5 pieces of green equipment

2 discipline runes of green quality (disciplines have a lot to do with character identity, so should definitely be an exception to any import restrictions). 

 

3.  Public/faction chat is disabled (if such a thing exists at all).  This solves a multitude of problems related to RP gaming environments at no extra resource cost.  

 

4.  Report function implemented.  This exists to remove players who have no interest in the RP CW, but go there to harass other players.  Normally, this is very easily picked out.

 

5. Naming Policy.  Without going into a lot of detail here, if your Crow name is DonaldTrump, xXLegolasXx, D34tHD34L3R, etc. you're probably not a RPer and wouldn't have fun in that CW anyway.  A basic report function would take care of this as well. 

 

I know nothing brings on the hate like a good RP rules discussion.  In fact, regardless of any consideration of the merits of this type of CW, some will rage against it and RPers kind of like Ogre from Revenge of the Nerds (though the irony is that if you play RPGs you're already a nerd, nerd).  However, they can't deny that RP environments, which are usually popular, have been created and maintained by devs in MMORPGs for sometime now.  With the availability of multiple settings for each CW, it seems academic that one would exist in CF.  Finally, I also know that someone would suggest that EKs will somehow be a sufficient substitute.  However, I don't think they will provide nearly the same experience as an actual CW.    

 

If this has already been suggested, well, I'm suggesting it again, nerd...

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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I'm not sure I like the no export rule because surely your reporting system for griefers can include people that would take advantage of the campaign, but other than that, I'm on board!


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I'm not sure I like the no export rule because surely your reporting system for griefers can include people that would take advantage of the campaign, but other than that, I'm on board!

 

I think that the only way to preserve this type of environment is to make it attractive to the target group whilst making it unattractive to those who either seek to grief or look for any perceived advantage.  For example, in Archeage there was a large, non-RP guild who selected the unofficial RP server because they believed they would have an advantage competitively there.  First, their assumption was that RPers were not serious PvPers.  Secondly, and more importantly, they did it to dodge other organized PvP guilds who had no interest in RP.  However, CF allows for a remedy due to limited, impermanent worlds and adjustable export rules.  If AA was structured similarly, what happened would most likely not have occurred.  

 

EDIT:

Part of the idea is to create an environment where people play for the unique joy found in RPGs, as opposed to primarily fat loots and internet bragging rights.  There is nothing really wrong with those things (in fact they are good up to a point), but CF allows for variety and I know there is a "market" for an RP CW.  This type of CW would foster a whole RP community in a way we haven't seen in MMO gaming for a very long time.  The potential here is extraordinary...      

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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I wonder if The Infected rule-band might not be better for Lore.  Basically, you have the influence of all 12 God's who can bring in different forms of lore.  You have lots of teams that could be "Lore" driven (ie. If you choose God Kane, you can only be these 3-4 archetypes, like SB charters).  And there is still 100% inventory loot (I'd be fine with this being done with full loot).


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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I also like the idea of the Infected for a RP driven CW. The war between the Gods seems to be the main theme of Crowfall's lore afterall. 

 

In the long run I also like the idea of more and more building/management tools being implemented in the EK, to the point where the players can create their own mini-campaigns with a lot more freedom as to how to structure it. Being able to turn on pvp, asset destruction, scripting tools for thralls, and other variables. 


 

 

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I also like the idea of the Infected for a RP driven CW. The war between the Gods seems to be the main theme of Crowfall's lore afterall. 

 

In the long run I also like the idea of more and more building/management tools being implemented in the EK, to the point where the players can create their own mini-campaigns with a lot more freedom as to how to structure it. Being able to turn on pvp, asset destruction, scripting tools for thralls, and other variables. 

 

Yes, but then you're at the mercy of the owner of the EK and it will probably never have the capacity to be as deep and varied as an actual CW. That being said, the things we will be able to do with EKs could be pretty creative and amazing--I look forward to it. 

 

 

I wonder if The Infected rule-band might not be better for Lore.  Basically, you have the influence of all 12 God's who can bring in different forms of lore.  You have lots of teams that could be "Lore" driven (ie. If you choose God Kane, you can only be these 3-4 archetypes, like SB charters).  And there is still 100% inventory loot (I'd be fine with this being done with full loot).

 

I think this is a good idea, and I like full inventory loot. However, destruction/looting of vessels/disciplines is potentially problematic because it effects the type of character you play (in the traditional sense).

 

I know I've already said this, but I think it is important that it is understood that this isn't some sort of weird request or strange gamble.  RP shards/servers have been around a long time and have been popular.  Some MMOs don't have them, ostensibly because they can't be bothered to police them.  However, with a population cap on the CW, a no export rule, and other CW options I think it will be less of an issue here--especially if report is made available only for harassment/behavior against the TOS (just like every other CW) and naming.

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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1. I don't think RP enforcement will be feasible for a team the size of ACE. "RP" is very subjective and would require a special set of rules, and I think they will be too busy dealing with the basic TOS/ROC. If players want to RP with a guarantee of no disruption, the EK serves this purpose well.

 

2. I do like the idea of an "official designation" for an RP-PvP Campaign World - with some special rules like no vessel looting and/or no vessel decay, even god lore or archetype restrictions. That's something ACE could easily test the popularity of without much extra time/resources involved. Just having a official label (even with no other special support) really helps the RP-PvP community gather on one server and reach enough critical mass to make it fun.


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Feel like a no export rule would cause a complete disconnect from the rest of the game. Any guild or group that decides to play in such a campaign world for an extended period of time would be putting themselves at a significant disadvantage in the future against other guilds that participate in the normal campaign worlds. Not only would they be unable to build up their EK but they could not import any materials to future campaign's they wish to participate in. I know there are quite a few players that enjoy competitive play on top of RP and in a game where there will be tournament servers (hopefully with a large import cap) I'm sure those groups will want their fair shot at victory.

 

That said Miraluna's idea of a community made coalition of guilds in a EK will probably fit the bill for RP since that is enforceable by the EK owner and would not require dev intervention Ωgj ( Spoken from a PvP perspective as i dont RP).

Edited by Uyathefox

Sugoi ! - Head of Disciplinary Committee


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Feel like a no export rule would cause a complete disconnect from the rest of the game. Any guild or group that decides to play in such a campaign world for an extended period of time would be putting themselves at a significant disadvantage in the future against other guilds that participate in the normal campaign worlds. Not only would they be unable to build up their EK but they could not import any materials to future campaign's they wish to participate in. I know there are quite a few players that enjoy competitive play on top of RP and in a game where there will be tournament servers (hopefully with a large import cap) I'm sure those groups will want their fair shot at victory.

 

That said Miraluna's idea of a community made coalition of guilds in a EK will probably fit the bill for RP since that is enforceable by the EK owner and would not require dev intervention Ωgj ( Spoken from a PvP perspective as i dont RP).

 

 

A no export could be potentially problematic for some players due to preference.  However, you are assuming a couple of things here.  First, import rules restrict the benefit you receive from previous CWs.  So, there is no disadvantage going from no export to no import.  Also, if you allow for very good loot to be crafted and used in the CW and a long enough cycle, then you'd get to have access to all/most the goodies--you just couldn't take them home.  Finally, the whole game is built upon competition, so there is no reason to believe that people wouldn't be competing on the RP CW--they simply would have to start from the same point (low import) and end with victory or defeat (just like every other CW).   

 

Basically, I imagine a RP CW to be about a 3 month game (for example) after which it would end and reset.  Those who like the world could requeue continuously, only missing out on goodies for their EK (by choice, thought they could make cash shop purchases).  If they want EK goodies or to work toward high import CWs, they could join other CWs more fitting their desires (and come back if they felt like it in the future).  In the RP CW, everything you need would be there (with some exception--that being the highest gear that is earmarked for guilds that have to move through several campaigns to achieve, if such a thing exists), making export, in some real ways, unnecessary. 

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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I see your reasoning and points about the no export rules for a possible RP campaign. However part of me feels that this feature would feel kind of artificial in a game like Crowfall. Spend all that time fighting in a campaign and at the end you really didn't win anything. It's not really about the reward itself, but more like creating an organic environment for RP. If the wars in that campaign are supposed to be meaningful and have value, then there should be some reward at the end other than just bragging rights. 

 

Another thing that would be really cool for a campaign like that would be a small event team organizing official events here and there to propel the story. Rivalry and politics between the gods and their avatars, etc. Imagine an avatar of Malekai appearing before the guilds fighting for that god and giving them a mission to accomplish (maybe sieging the castle of the alliance defending Hero for example, because they're getting too strong, or to steal an artifact that used to belong to Malekai there). I've always loved MMO's that did that, and it seems to be rare finding these official RP events anymore. 


 

 

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I see your reasoning and points about the no export rules for a possible RP campaign. However part of me feels that this feature would feel kind of artificial in a game like Crowfall. Spend all that time fighting in a campaign and at the end you really didn't win anything. It's not really about the reward itself, but more like creating an organic environment for RP. If the wars in that campaign are supposed to be meaningful and have value, then there should be some reward at the end other than just bragging rights. 

 

...

 

During the live stream I asked this question: "What can the MMORPGs of today learn from the MUDs of yesterday" (paraphrase).   Todd answered, "Everything..."

In a standard MUD "cycle", there was a character wipe usually after 1 year.  That's right--a WIPE.  This meant that everything you had and all the hours you put into the game for 12 months were GONE FOREVER.  You kept nothing in a bank, on an alt, in something like an EK, etc.  The one exception was the relationships you built in game (rarely talked about directly, but perhaps the most important aspect of a MUD/MMO).  You simply started again, perhaps with a different character.  Could you imagine the wailing and tears if such a thing made it into a MMORPG? 

 

Of course, Todd didn't suggest a character wipe.  However, you can see obvious echos of this system in CF (CWs etc.).  I bring this up to because I think ACE understands well enough that real fun in an MMORPG isn't primarily about the loot or rewards, but about the player driven experience.  A RP CW makes such a thing possible for a group of players that perhaps realizes and appreciate this more than other people.  What matters, we know, is the experience--the relationships, the conflict, the story that develops over the course of the campaign. 

 

However, we must always contend with logistics.  To make such a thing a reality, some compromises must inevitably be made.  ACE devs are smart, creative people and can think of solutions perhaps we cannot.  That being stated, unofficial RP servers (i.e., campaigns) or RP campaigns that are virtually the same as the "standard" ones never really work.  They are a type of compromise that makes no one happy.  So, to make no export work (which I currently think is essential based on what we know of the game), they could and should be creative. 

 

One example, if using the deity faction setting, could be a setting where the gods disprove of you for whatever reason and have sent you to prove your worth by recover something for them, or simply slaughtering the enemy.  I am sure there are a dozen or more ways to make this work in a way that does not feel artificial.  In doing so, the unique experience itself is the star of the show--and that is what will bring the players who understand its value.   


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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I am down for a lore based faction server where players can keep their vessels on said server even after destruction or perhaps keep the server perminant.


Hammers High !!  Master Brewer of the Dwarven Hold Mithril Warhammers

 

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