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Tinnis

Concerns and thoughts about multiple accounts?

  

155 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you own multiple accounts?

  2. 2. Concerned about the implications?

  3. 3. Should ACE *try* and stop it? (bans or system changes to discourage)



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I still don't believe they should support it within the same Campaign, it's irrelevant if they can prevent it, by giving it the thumbs up they have turned off myself and a few people I have discussed this with. 

 

How many of you are going to be happy when others bring multiple accounts into a Campaign which means the majority of those second, third, fourth, god knows how many alt accounts will be more or less AFK bot's because it's not possible to play effectively without a secondary program and then proceed to reap the rewards you earned for their AFK bots? Or you end up losing a Campaign due to an over abundance of Alt accounts that are contributing very little if anything.

 

There's no point in disputing it, as has been pointed out, it can't be prevented. I'm just a little but disgusted that ACE actually endorsed it, I'm pretty sure no one at ACE weighed the pro's vs cons before slapping and approved sticker on it or they might have noticed the incredible imbalance between the Pro's and Con's.

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I still don't believe they should support it within the same Campaign, it's irrelevant if they can prevent it, by giving it the thumbs up they have turned off myself and a few people I have discussed this with. 

 

How many of you are going to be happy when others bring multiple accounts into a Campaign which means the majority of those second, third, fourth, god knows how many alt accounts will be more or less AFK bot's because it's not possible to play effectively without a secondary program and then proceed to reap the rewards you earned for their AFK bots? Or you end up losing a Campaign due to an over abundance of Alt accounts that are contributing very little if anything.

 

There's no point in disputing it, as has been pointed out, it can't be prevented. I'm just a little but disgusted that ACE actually endorsed it, I'm pretty sure no one at ACE weighed the pro's vs cons before slapping and approved sticker on it or they might have noticed the incredible imbalance between the Pro's and Con's.

Well sometimes ACE does things that make you go, "Aha they truly have that veteran game experience and know what was lost with the WoW clones" and then sometimes they do things that make you go "Aha they realize the reality of the situation and know that things just can't be perfect" and then sometimes they do things that make you go. "I don't think they understood some of the core things that made the old mmorpgs great"...

 

They need to make it so that for an account to be useful in a campaign it has to be actively played and not just be camped out waiting to defend against a siege or whatever.

 

Also their passive skill training was far too lenient, yes people have gotten older and don't have time to play 6 hours a day anymore, but still, if you want to progress in a game you should be required to play the damn game. 

 

How the passive training should work is that you should have to actively level a skill to 50 or whatever, and then the system should be like "ok you've swung your sword enough times actively, we will help you out now and let you passively train sword swinging so you can go on and add more variety by doing other things."

 

I shouldn't just be able to buy an account, never touch it, and still have the most powerful character training wise if I just make sure to keep all the passive training up. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I still don't believe they should support it within the same Campaign, it's irrelevant if they can prevent it, by giving it the thumbs up they have turned off myself and a few people I have discussed this with. 

 

How many of you are going to be happy when others bring multiple accounts into a Campaign which means the majority of those second, third, fourth, god knows how many alt accounts will be more or less AFK bot's because it's not possible to play effectively without a secondary program and then proceed to reap the rewards you earned for their AFK bots? Or you end up losing a Campaign due to an over abundance of Alt accounts that are contributing very little if anything.

 

There's no point in disputing it, as has been pointed out, it can't be prevented. I'm just a little but disgusted that ACE actually endorsed it, I'm pretty sure no one at ACE weighed the pro's vs cons before slapping and approved sticker on it or they might have noticed the incredible imbalance between the Pro's and Con's.

 

Same Campaign: People in the same household will want to be able to play together. Boyfriends/Girlfriends, Husbands/Wives, siblingss and friends etc.. If you restrict one internet connection per campaign that will have an implication on a lot more people than players with a crafter account.

 

 

On your second point about people in the same campaign that are just alt accounts: This is a vast minority of the population that are going to do this. It probably won't have the impact you think it will have.

 

Your last point: Disgusted? Seems a little harsh doesn't it? Don't these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt? Do they not deserve respect for their amount of experience making games and for their mission statement of making it about the players?

 

"I'm just a little but disgusted that ACE actually endorsed it, I'm pretty sure no one at ACE weighed the pro's vs cons before slapping and approved sticker on it or they might have noticed the incredible imbalance between the Pro's and Con's."

 

That's a terrible attitude and to be honest.. I won't say Im disgusted by how entitled and petulant you sound but give me a break man.

 

Let's have some open ended constructive criticism. This type of mentality is infectious among the ignorant and doesn't help but sour the forums etc. It's not helping anything.

 

I don't know what to tell you.. These guys could easily sell out and probably make a fortune doing it.. But that's not what they've set out to do.

 

They didn't invest their own money and agonize over every detail to let this game go to poorly made socks.

 

This is a trivial issue. It won't impact things. If it does then it will be temporary at best. It will get fixed/controlled.

 

The sky isn't falling, trust their experience over you lack of experience and let's support our design team.


“There is a savage beast in every man, and when you hand that man a sword or spear and send him forth to war, the beast stirs.” -Jorah Mormont of Bear Island

George R.R. Martin

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Same Campaign: People in the same household will want to be able to play together. Boyfriends/Girlfriends, Husbands/Wives, siblingss and friends etc.. If you restrict one internet connection per campaign that will have an implication on a lot more people than players with a crafter account.

 

 

On your second point about people in the same campaign that are just alt accounts: This is a vast minority of the population that are going to do this. It probably won't have the impact you think it will have.

 

Your last point: Disgusted? Seems a little harsh doesn't it? Don't these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt? Do they not deserve respect for their amount of experience making games and for their mission statement of making it about the players?

 

"I'm just a little but disgusted that ACE actually endorsed it, I'm pretty sure no one at ACE weighed the pro's vs cons before slapping and approved sticker on it or they might have noticed the incredible imbalance between the Pro's and Con's."

 

That's a terrible attitude and to be honest.. I won't say Im disgusted by how entitled and petulant you sound but give me a break man.

 

Let's have some open ended constructive criticism. This type of mentality is infectious among the ignorant and doesn't help but sour the forums etc. It's not helping anything.

 

I don't know what to tell you.. These guys could easily sell out and probably make a fortune doing it.. But that's not what they've set out to do.

 

They didn't invest their own money and agonize over every detail to let this game go to poorly made socks.

 

This is a trivial issue. It won't impact things. If it does then it will be temporary at best. It will get fixed/controlled.

 

The sky isn't falling, trust their experience over you lack of experience and let's support our design team.

Not at all, re-read, I've conceded that there is no way to prevent it without harming multiple gamers in house. And yes I am disgusted, do you really think everyone will see everything and feel the same way you do? Don't tell me how or what I should feel towards ACE. They have my respect in many regards but not with this decision. 

 

That horse you rode in on must be pretty high, maybe you should come down here and visit us smaller folks, you might realize we all have different opinions. I'm sure you have never been disgusted by anything in life that someone else feels is perfectly fine.

 

You want to disagree with me? That's fine, but don't come in here lecturing people on their opinions because you do not share the same opinion.

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Also I think Jah had the practical response on page one. You can't limit connections by IP and even if you did IPs can be masked.

 

 

Don't most companies have more information better than your IP address? Many install programs on your computer that will pick up various unique IDs on your machine that don't change, and are required to be installed in order to log in. Can't they just track using this info how many accounts log in per computer that way? I mean the idea of limiting users to one account certainly isn't a new one. Games have been doing it for years.

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I feel like it would be interesting if VIP status gave you the option between:

A: Training 1 general skill, and 3 archetype skills (from 3 different archetypes).

B: Training 2 general skills (from 2 different trees) and 1 archetype skill.

 

This goes against their original intention of making it so no character could become severely overpowered over other players, but by forcing it to only be 2 of the general trees at a time you are making it so people can be more "jack of all trades" and not just double train combat skills. I feel like this would make people happier with a single account where the can craft and fight, and not feel like they need 2 accounts to do those things. While limiting them to having to choose just 1 archetype they enjoy.

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The problem comes down to not really being able to enforce this.. But I have faith that they will figure it out one way or another. I don't think we'll have gold farmers logging on multiple accounts to spell out their .com address in stormwind in male human bodies.

 

I can appreciate different opinions.

 

Bad attitudes - not so much.

 

That said I said my piece. I think you're making a mountain of a molehill.

 

I'll just look for you on the battlefield. :P


“There is a savage beast in every man, and when you hand that man a sword or spear and send him forth to war, the beast stirs.” -Jorah Mormont of Bear Island

George R.R. Martin

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Well sometimes ACE does things that make you go, "Aha they truly have that veteran game experience and know what was lost with the WoW clones" and then sometimes they do things that make you go "Aha they realize the reality of the situation and know that things just can't be perfect" and then sometimes they do things that make you go. "I don't think they understood some of the core things that made the old mmorpgs great"...

 

They need to make it so that for an account to be useful in a campaign it has to be actively played and not just be camped out waiting to defend against a siege or whatever.

 

Also their passive skill training was far too lenient, yes people have gotten older and don't have time to play 6 hours a day anymore, but still, if you want to progress in a game you should be required to play the damn game. 

 

How the passive training should work is that you should have to actively level a skill to 50 or whatever, and then the system should be like "ok you've swung your sword enough times actively, we will help you out now and let you passively train sword swinging so you can go on and add more variety by doing other things."

 

I shouldn't just be able to buy an account, never touch it, and still have the most powerful character training wise if I just make sure to keep all the passive training up. 

You are cherry picking the way you supposedly "progress" in the game. Your character progresses through other aspects of the game outside of your skill training. You can be offline all the time only to get on and train your skills, but does that mean you will be equal to a player that plays almost daily? I seriously doubt it because that player will have better gear, and probably possess more skill at playing their character. I think they are making it a point that you don't have to play 18 hours a day to be able to participate in a "hardcore pvp" game. I think they've been pretty adamant about that from the outset, so its not like they did a bait and switch on you.


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Not at all, re-read, I've conceded that there is no way to prevent it without harming multiple gamers in house. And yes I am disgusted, do you really think everyone will see everything and feel the same way you do? Don't tell me how or what I should feel towards ACE. They have my respect in many regards but not with this decision. 

 

That horse you rode in on must be pretty high, maybe you should come down here and visit us smaller folks, you might realize we all have different opinions. I'm sure you have never been disgusted by anything in life that someone else feels is perfectly fine.

 

You want to disagree with me? That's fine, but don't come in here lecturing people on their opinions because you do not share the same opinion.

You keep telling everybody to re-read what you say. You should re-read what you say. I've made counter points to you and your position and you may address 1 out of the 5 and left the rest hanging because you know they are good points and you don't have a rebuttal. Please dont mistake this as a "no true scotsman" fallacy, but your forum badge says 2016, and these issues were address before 2016. You are entitled to your opinion, but what you are asking is not feasible and would take too many resources to even police it poorly.


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Man multiple threads on this topic. All of the people concerned about multiple accounts really need to man up. Please cite an example of a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online roleplaying game that prevents you from alt-tabbing between multiple instances of their game on the same computer. It doesn't happen. And yes, before someone cites some irrelevant example, I'm speaking of MMORPGs in the traditional sense... not what your "opinion" of a game is. The answer is no. No sane developer would actively go out of their way to prevent you from purchasing, subscribing and playing their game, period.

 

If deep down inside you are super scared of "spies" or people scouting you out.... dear lord do you realize what type of game you are playing? This is a hardcore PvP universe where people do anything possible to win by killing you and taking your stuff (and doing it all over again 10 seconds later if they missed something the first time). You really think their resources are best spent trying to prevent your irrational fear of someone trying to play two accounts simultaneously? You are in for such a rough time in this game, I don't even think you realize. 

 

EVE Online has survived a decade now with multi-boxing. So too has World of Warcraft. No matter what area of play you spend your time in, PvP or PvE the two most successful games in the genre have managed to find a way to make it work. So too will Crowfall.

 

I plan on running at least 3 accounts simultaneously at any given point. I didn't buy three monitors for nothing. You think you can stop me? Good luck with that.

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We could debate this all day, I have addressed the points you brought up, you pointed out you might want to run multiple campaigns and work on your EK as an argument which was not my argument at all. The point you made about spying was a fair point, I don't have an argument for it I thought I was pretty clear about that. He rehashed how it would affect multiple gamers in one house, I already stated there was no fair way of addressing that issue. I also haven't "asked" for anything I have brought up what I don't agree with followed by the reasons. Please enlighten me, which points have you brought up that I have not answered? Or are we just playing the "I need to have the last word" game now?

 

I've already said, we are not going to agree, to each there own. I really do hope my concerns are wrong, I hope they don't have an impact on the game but I refuse to put on blinders and ignore the issues that it could create. At the very least maybe ACE will take something out of this debate and find a solution to make everyone happy.

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I do agree about preventing AFK botters, but those are typically making use of a script/bot type application which is clearly against the rules. That's got nothing to do with someone like myself legitimately planning on playing 2-3 accounts simultaneously within the same campaign I'm in. 

 

Seriously, Apok, I understand how scary something like this might be. If I scout out your city with one of my alts, I promise to give you fair warning I saw you and I'm coming for you on my main.

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I do agree about preventing AFK botters, but those are typically making use of a script/bot type application which is clearly against the rules. That's got nothing to do with someone like myself legitimately planning on playing 2-3 accounts simultaneously within the same campaign I'm in. 

 

Seriously, Apok, I understand how scary something like this might be. If I scout out your city with one of my alts, I promise to give you fair warning I saw you and I'm coming for you on my main.

Thnx appreciate it! 

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I'm not trying to agree, I'm trying to point out the flaws in your argument and show you what you were wanting isn't feasible. People also keeep talking about scripting and botting and those are mutually exclusive to what we are talking about here. You stated...

 

  1. Taking up a spot within that campaign that another active player could be playing (you won't be able to play 2 accounts as well as playing 1) so basically u may as well just afk and annoy everyone.
  2. If both accounts are at a battle scene and one dies it's a non issue because you just switch to the one that's not dead, now you are not punished with death in the same manner as 1 account.
  3. There are players that want to solely craft, by allowing people to have multiple accounts and use one as a crafter within that campaign you are actually hurting the dedicated crafters experience.

1. You dont really know that its taking another spot of an active player. We dont know what the caps will be, and if the cap will actually be hit. You are speculating.
 

2. You aren't going to have another character in the middle of battle following your main character because the opposing team would easily kill the secondary character. But I'll even let you keep this argument and say so what? Its not a big issue and wont swing the tide of battle.
 

3. Again, you are speculating. You dont actually know this to be true.


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Both sides of the coin are speculation. 

1. You don't know what the cap will be either, it could very well matter, and of course it may not matter.

2. I'll give you as well, it's a bit far fetched.

3. This one is a pretty reasonable assumption, if I wanted to come into a campaign as a crafter (I don't, this is an argument a friend made) and half the people have an alt account doing their own crafting it will affect my gameplay because numerous people no longer rely on my services. 

 

I can see what you are saying, some of your points are good such as the spying which hadn't even crossed my mind until you pointed it out. I just don't agree with them all, when a good point is made I'm not going to argue it. Most people here want to see this game not only succeed but to be great for years to come, if I see something that I can relate to problematic flaws I'm going to point it out. Maybe ACE listens or notices something they hadn't thought of and puts measures in place, or, maybe I turn out to be completely wrong and had nothing to be concerned about to begin with. It's never a bad thing to question something you are skeptical about.

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Man multiple threads on this topic. All of the people concerned about multiple accounts really need to man up. Please cite an example of a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online roleplaying game that prevents you from alt-tabbing between multiple instances of their game on the same computer. It doesn't happen. 

 

Uh most recently a famous WoW multi-boxer had all of his BDO accounts banned (you are unable to multibox on the same computer in BDO so this guy was using third party software to multibox on multiple computers which is also against the rules). TERA also limits the number of accounts you can log in with per day in NA to something like 5 currently (still way too high, but the point stands they try to monitor it) and limits you to one account in EU, people are often locked out of accounts or outright banned for going over these limits. But these are only games I've played and am aware of. I haven't bothered to figure out what other games do but I know it's never been a common thing in other games I've played, to the point where it wasn't even a topic of discussion in those games.

 

I plan on running at least 3 accounts simultaneously at any given point. I didn't buy three monitors for nothing. You think you can stop me? Good luck with that.

 

 

They can prevent multi-boxing if they want to - that's not really the point of discussion here. It's owning multiple accounts for a variety of other reasons but not necessarily playing them all at the same time or even being logged in at the same time.

Edited by Leiloni

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On your second point about people in the same campaign that are just alt accounts: This is a vast minority of the population that are going to do this. It probably won't have the impact you think it will have.

 

 

I think you're underestimating a.) the lengths some people will go to get an edge up, especially if that method has been openly approved by the game company, and b.) the effect a large minority can have on the economy and overall gameplay. Multi accounting done smartly can earn small groups of players large amounts of money, power, or both, which can lead that group to single handedly changing the outcome of a campaign and how it's played, and depending on what they can keep from the campaign, how the game is played going forward.

Edited by Leiloni

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I am concerned about some unintended consequences that multiple accounts might bring, such as invincible scouts, bank mules, import/export restriction avoidance, plus more we haven't thought of yet.

 

What I'm not worried about is people wanting to have one crafter account and one combat account.

 

You can passively train up the crafting skill on your alt account but you can't actually craft anything without resources. Somehow, somewhere, someone has to get the resources - that will take active play. Should be up to each guild if they want their crafted gear/supplies to come from an alt or a main crafter player. 

 

If someone wants to try be 100% self sufficient in CF with alts for every gathering, every crafting, and combat skills - good luck to them  :wacko:

 

Maybe, but in theory it would be pretty easily done for a single crafting type at least.  If you join two accounts to the same CW, you simply log out and in at appropriate times.  For example, I might start the campaign with my crafter, running around gathering resources and making armor (or perhaps just a resource gathering alt).  Then, as the enemy shows up, I switch to my fighting account (and so on and so forth).  The problem with this is, as has been said, it ruins interdependence which will hurt the economy and the value of crafting. 

 

I can't think that being 100% self sufficient, insofar as items are concerned, in CF could possibly be a good thing. Personally, I am too lazy to do this.  What I would do, however, is make a crafting account and trade for resources with spoils I've earned with my main account, and then have that account build the stuff I want.  Of course, there are other potentially even more troubling exploits, as you point out.

 

That said, ACE presumably could address this in multiple ways and I am sure they will.    


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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However, there are some potential problems when it comes to crafting--specifically, an strong advantage when it comes to a crafting account. 

 

However, if a crafter alt is anywhere near as effective as, say, IdeaMatrix's main (who has dedicated himself to crafting from the very beginning) then there would be something very wrong with the game.

 

I have every intention of having a crafting alt if it provides an advantage to myself or my guild. Unless ACE makes crafting very inefficient to do on an alt account, I suspect the folks that want to be full time/focused crafters are going to be very disappointed.

 

There is still the active training bit. I didn't see that feature mentioned anywhere yet, although I could have overlooked it in the 3 pages so far. If you actively play an account you get the advantage of active training. We can discuss how much you gain from that; if it is enough to make a difference and if it makes the dedicated crafters stand out enough, but the gain is there for those who actively craft and who have an alt account I think. 

 

Edited by Caenth

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