Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
GeistBaoh

whats the 1 thing ACE is doing to Crowfall that you hope they didn't or don't do?

Recommended Posts

I think design wise the order of which they approached some of the milestones. I don't think releasing archetypes one at a time is very effective for the long run seeing as every single class will likely need to be changed at the end to balance. I also don't like how they put so much time and effort into these "mini games" (Siege and Hunger Dome) opposed to a working model (like they are planning on doing now). 

Systems wise, I still don't know how I feel about vessels. That announcement seemed to be out of no where and almost like a "We're throwing crap on the wall and seeing what sticks". It is an interesting proposal, but in a game as complex and innovative as this is already, why add more stuff we aren't sure will work. We aren't sure the original proposal on kickstarter was going to be a success, to make a system where even the "characters" aren't permanent, seemed sketchy. Only plus I see is players getting to try different archetypes.

I'm just waiting for them to get to the "Game of Thrones" aspect. Right now its kinda like a glorified Minecraft Hunger Games opposed to an "intense season of Game of Thrones". I just want clever ways to die/kill other players. I want a red wedding scenario, or a wildfire explosion, or Battle of the Bastards ambush. Something that even if it's happening against me I can say, well, this is still pretty cool and I admire their strategy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So back in the old mmorpgs you made a character and you progressed it and invested a lot into learning the nuances of it and such.

 

People used to lock themselves into characters for an entire life of an mmo at times, let alone some 1-3month campaign.

Learning nuances of combat or classes is a basic part of almost any online game. Most of the time people locked into the first toon they maxed out just because of the time investment. The amount of times I wanted to roll something else but stuck it out with something less fun has turned me off to anything with arbitrary grinds. I'm not a fan of having someones need for attachment dictating what I get to play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Learning nuances of combat or classes is a basic part of almost any online game. Most of the time people locked into the first toon they maxed out just because of the time investment. The amount of times I wanted to roll something else but stuck it out with something less fun has turned me off to anything with arbitrary grinds. I'm not a fan of having someones need for attachment dictating what I get to play.

I'm not a fan of casual players making sure nothing takes any sort of effort or investment because they want all pools to be kiddy pools. 

 

I mean there are plenty of games for casuals. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 thing huh? There are to many essential things they're failing to do, if I were to narrow it down to one thing though, I wish they'd stop dishonoring the claims and offers they Kickstarted this game on.

 

Lots of strong accusations coming from you. What claims did they "dishonor" exactly? Things like FF were vaguely mentioned.

 

 

I understand that many people invested in this game with the expectation that they would discard features they didn't like, but as a consumer, when someone asks for money to build a certain something, I expect it to be built as described, not change whatever they feel like and call it what they said they'd offer.

 

 

You gave them money knowing that there really wasn't an actual "consumable" product developed. What they offered was almost purely conceptual. MMOs change A LOT during development so it shouldn't have been a surprise when features (that might be adversely BAD for the game, or simply not do-able with the budget) are pushed back or cut entirely.

 

Basically, you played yourself here.

 

 

Few ppl actually acknowledged many of the statements ACE made, like how the game was coined as a strategy more than an action title, or that their art was a reliable depiction of what we could expect.

 

 

They simply used "strategy" and "throne war simulator" (wtf this is) as buzz words. Developers do this all the time. I mean, you did watch the video where they were blatantly showing the combat as extremely "action-y", and read the FAQ that firmly mentioned what they were going with for combat. I suspect when they were talking about "strategy" it was largely used to encapsulate "emergent player diplomacy". There was a lot of alliance building and scheming going on in games like SB and DFO; it won't be any different in crowfall.

 

 

But than there's flat out changes like removing cross class promotions and persistent "characters". Or how certain they were about universal inclusion of friendly fire.

 

 

I don't remember them talking about cross class promotions. I'm kinda glad they didn't go with that, cause it sounds like a complete clustercustard. Disciplines will be the "cross class" promotions it appears. since they will borrow aspects from different archetypes (and in some cases expand on them). So it seems like they're delivering on this. There is still "persistence", except progression has been decoupled from your avatars. I'm not entirely a fan of it, but they also weren't extremely detailed on what they were going to do with progression and character building in general.

 

FF was also another "vague" thing. I honestly only remember it being mentioned maybe once in the FAQ. It could have easily been a situation where they wanted it initially but then tested it and it clashed with some of their other ideas on combat and what not, and then decided to either reduce it or scrap it all together. It's unfortunate, but poorly made socks happens.

 

 

They said whatever sounded good to get funding from us, but they don't respect us enough to deliver what they said.

If they were doing what they originally said, I'd be fine if it included things I didn't like, but their flatly not. And ppl cling to contradictory addendums like their servicable, but their worthless in comparison to the word given at the launch of their funding.

 

 

 

Their just dishonest, you can pass it off if you think it will slide, but they'll just take more for granted. Good luck with that.

 

 

I don't think they are dishonest at all. They're delivering on just about everything so far (excluding FF which we've established was already debatable), and in fact added things that I didn't think that would even have (like food/hunger system, WHICH WAS MENTIONED NOWHERE IN THE KICKSTARTER OR FAQ).

 

Are we going to get most if not all the archetypes before soft-launch? Yes. 

Are we going to get one or two campaign types (maybe more) before soft launch? Yes, and the campaign worlds might be HUGE.

Do we have a functional siege system in the game? We do.

 

Mounts, caravans and all that other poorly made socks? We'll get that too, if not at soft launch then perhaps a bit after. We'll eventually get everything that was "offered" in the original campaign, and perhaps even more.

Edited by helix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But guys its like Game of Thrones meets the Walking Dead in video game form.

 

Remember all those animation locks in the Battle of the Bastards? 

 

Remember that time when Ron shot Carl in the eye and it didn't hurt Carl?

 

I'm pumped. 


aka honeybear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a fan of casual players making sure nothing takes any sort of effort or investment because they want all pools to be kiddy pools. 

 

I mean there are plenty of games for casuals.

 

No one said anything about anything being easy. Not sure where you are even coming from here but it is the typical elitist tone you often take when you don't have a valid argument. Guess you only know if you sat at the table.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of strong accusations coming from you. What claims did they "dishonor" exactly? Things like FF were vaguely mentioned.

 

 

 

 

You gave them money knowing that there really wasn't an actual "consumable" product developed. What they offered was almost purely conceptual. MMOs change A LOT during development so it shouldn't have been a surprise when features (that might be adversely BAD for the game, or simply not do-able with the budget) are pushed back or cut entirely.

 

Basically, you played yourself here.

 

 

 

 

They simply used "strategy" and "throne war simulator" (wtf this is) as buzz words. Developers do this all the time. I mean, you did watch the video where they were blatantly showing the combat as extremely "action-y", and read the FAQ that firmly mentioned what they were going with for combat. I suspect when they were talking about "strategy" it was largely used to encapsulate "emergent player diplomacy". There was a lot of alliance building and scheming going on in games like SB and DFO; it won't be any different in crowfall.

 

 

 

 

I don't remember them talking about cross class promotions. I'm kinda glad they didn't go with that, cause it sounds like a complete clustercustard. Disciplines will be the "cross class" promotions it appears. since they will borrow aspects from different archetypes (and in some cases expand on them). So it seems like they're delivering on this. There is still "persistence", except progression has been decoupled from your avatars. I'm not entirely a fan of it, but they also weren't extremely detailed on what they were going to do with progression and character building in general.

 

FF was also another "vague" thing. I honestly only remember it being mentioned maybe once in the FAQ. It could have easily been a situation where they wanted it initially but then tested it and it clashed with some of their other ideas on combat and what not, and then decided to either reduce it or scrap it all together. It's unfortunate, but poorly made socks happens.

 

 

 

 

I don't think they are dishonest at all. They're delivering on just about everything so far (excluding FF which we've established was already debatable), and in fact added things that I didn't think that would even have (like food/hunger system, WHICH WAS MENTIONED NOWHERE IN THE KICKSTARTER OR FAQ).

 

Are we going to get most if not all the archetypes before soft-launch? Yes.

Are we going to get one or two campaign types (maybe more) before soft launch? Yes, and the campaign worlds might be HUGE.

Do we have a functional siege system in the game? We do.

 

Mounts, caravans and all that other poorly made socks? We'll get that too, if not at soft launch then perhaps a bit after. We'll eventually get everything that was "offered" in the original campaign, and perhaps even more.

What makes you think I'm going to compensate for your familiarity? You not being informed isn't my problem, especially since you've wilfully ignored evidence presented prior.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just going to raise a stink for no particular reason, claim outrage when there really isn't one, and cry over non-existent issues while proclaiming that the developers are dishonest and not delivering features which they are currently in the process of working on.

 

Oh okay. It's one thing to disagree with damage splitting being added to the game (which I agree, is pretty terrible), and another to literally be upset because the game isn't an exact duplicate of the one you concocted in your head.

Edited by helix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember all those animation locks in the Battle of the Bastards? 

 

Remember that time when Ron shot Carl in the eye and it didn't hurt Carl? 

Still more entertaining than watching someone play Slow Motion Counterstrike With Fantasy Weapons.

 

Sorry, Darkfall I mean. Easy mistake to make.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I despise the "vessel" system. I think you should be able to make multiple characters, but not this "your character is an item with different levels of quality" bs. MMOs, to me, are about persistence, about investing in a character and getting better, both as a player as well as fine tuning your character to be perfect for your playstyle. The whole vessel system is a huge let down.

 

But, I'm willing to give it a chance, it may not be bad. A similar-ish system was used in Eve for the longest time, but it was more of a nuisance; just update your clone after death and you wouldn't lose skillpoints. CF seems like it's a much more central feature, so that's disappointing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ACE plans on implementing an after-death revival system in addition to the regular re-spawn system (unsure on what it is) which was confirmed by Blair during the stream. Just sad about it because it's supposedly "A game where decisions matter." 

 

Did my decision to ambush an enemy guild really affect their decision to continue forth with their caravan if they have a buddy hiding around waiting to come up and revive them when the coast is clear?

 

Did my decision to sneak into an enemy camp moments before a battle to take out their most valuable player really affect the imminent battle if someone could just bring him back to life in an instant?

Did my guilds decision to use hit and run tactics on a larger, more formidable zerg force really have any affect on the final confrontation if they're just rezzing up their noobs after they drop?

 

Obviously these situations are all just hypothetical but they're still plausible scenarios.

 

I feel like them adding something like that to a game that already has all these additionally planned survival and strategical elements would just take the immersion of the game world and the consequences of death from "I really cannot afford to die right now." to "Eh it'll be alright, my buddy will be here in less than a minute to bring me back." I've personally been ecstatic over CrowFall and I've supported every idea with vigor and enthusiasm because of being able to see how the ideas would benefit the bigger picture of the game and make it more complex and enjoyable, but this idea honestly just made me sadden.

 

In a way it killed a big part of the fantasy/dream that I had for the game with all the unique and endless situations that could happen. Maybe they have plans for it to make it unique in a way that won't kill all the enjoyment of being a complete detriment to enemies and their plans. Maybe they'll utilize it in such a way that revival isn't as simple and non-costly as just pressing a button. In the LEAST I would hope that they would have the option of disabling that feature on non-casual, care-bear free CW's (or scrap it all together.)

 

tl;dr eagle no likey after death revival makes him a sad boy cries a lot boo hoo butt-hurt kills the game's vibe ctrl+alt+ f4 it delete delete delete

Edited by EagleArcherz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one said anything about anything being easy. Not sure where you are even coming from here but it is the typical elitist tone you often take when you don't have a valid argument. Guess you only know if you sat at the table.

What you don't realize is that your view is conditioned towards easiness.  You don't see it as easy mode, but people like me find it boring and easy.  And it's the type of thing that's been plaguing mmorpgs and games in general for a decade. 

 

You want convenience, you want to switch your ice cream flavor when you feel like it, that's not wrong, it's just easy and casual.

 

I want choices to matter, I want to make choices that I regret, and learn to adapt to an emergent world while making those decisions.  You'd rather just tap out and change your decision at will aka you want easy mode. 

 

It may come off elitist, I can see why it would, but it's also just a matter of fact. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you don't realize is that your view is conditioned towards easiness.  You don't see it as easy mode, but people like me find it boring and easy.  And it's the type of thing that's been plaguing mmorpgs and games in general for a decade. 

 

You want convenience, you want to switch your ice cream flavor when you feel like it, that's not wrong, it's just easy and casual.

 

I want choices to matter, I want to make choices that I regret, and learn to adapt to an emergent world while making those decisions.  You'd rather just tap out and change your decision at will aka you want easy mode. 

 

It may come off elitist, I can see why it would, but it's also just a matter of fact.

 

I never said changeing should be easy or without limit just that it not require a pointless entry grind. With time based training there is plenty of room for mistakes especially if nodes take months to train. Vessels being tied to crafting means people who play more than one archtype have a much higher upkeep cost. Considering how much they talk about how deep crafting is going to be there is potential for the need of several vessels per archtype you play. Make the disadvantage runes lock intothe vessel and make it so you can't clear it so you can ruin a super rare well rolled body with poor choice. The only thing it doesnt give is that sense of attachment everone seems to want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you don't realize is that your view is conditioned towards easiness.  You don't see it as easy mode, but people like me find it boring and easy.  And it's the type of thing that's been plaguing mmorpgs and games in general for a decade. 

 

You want convenience, you want to switch your ice cream flavor when you feel like it, that's not wrong, it's just easy and casual.

 

I want choices to matter, I want to make choices that I regret, and learn to adapt to an emergent world while making those decisions.  You'd rather just tap out and change your decision at will aka you want easy mode. 

 

It may come off elitist, I can see why it would, but it's also just a matter of fact. 

It's really not what has been plaguing MMO's for a decade. Casuals or Ez moders make up a majority of the gaming population. It may be what some gamers have disliked about MMO's for the past decade but those Casual/Ez moders have sustained the games we play. Like it or not they are an important cog in the MMO machine. Hard core is also subjective in many ways, the mode you play or look forward to playing may be harder ruleset but if you put in half the time they do, they could be considered more hard core with different likes/dislikes.

 

At the end of the day when it comes to a game like CF it's all really irrelevant. The CW's will have different rulesets so what someone else may like in the "ez mode" campaigns holds zero bearing on what you may like in the "Hard Core" Campaigns.

 

As far as other games go, smart business dictates that you cater to the larger audience, what has truly plagued MMO's has been the lack of diversity/rulesets to cater to more than one type of gamer and/or changing those other ruleset to cater to one type of player.

 

imo of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many of you have a (relatively) limited perspective of experiences based on MMOs you've played.. New things make people feel uncomfortable.. Understandable.

 

The Vessel system allows for an incredible amount of versatility. Tired of playing the same class? Would you like some of the similar development you've already worked on in a new character?

 

We got that. Awesome.

 

The amount of creativity and flexibility in this system is nuts. You want to play the same archetype and guy? You want him to develop? You WANT to feel attached to the character you've made? That's fine. Keep rolling the same body. Have the same features..

 

Does it REALLY bug you that much to think of the body as a clone of the previous one? Is it the idea of permanence that frightens you? I don't get it. Is it that you can have a better quality body then lose that one and have to play with a lower quality one? What's the big deal?

 

It feels to me like people feel uneasy about the complexity and love the sense of comfort they get from identifying and playing with their same avatar.

 

THIS GAME IS BIGGER THAN THAT. IT ALOWS YOU TO BE BIGGER. THAT'S EXCITING A F.

 

I for one don't want the same droll limited color within the lines crap. I'm really dismayed and confused by people saying they hate the vessel system..

 

 

 

 

The only thing that I am the slightest bit worried about is the affect that the EKs will have on the social system.. I personally would like a place to hang out and socialize.. The effect Garrisons had on the community in WOW stagnated a lot of the sociability.. I am very curious how it will me implemented in Crowfall and hope that there are systems in place that will streamline motivations to want to hang out in the different social spaces. I hope that they are genuinely customizeable.. A bar in my EK with minigames where people will take a load off and wear cosmetic items and just chill and BS.. Jump in place..

 

Dancers/entertainers like in SWG were so very interesting.. I never had played a style of game play where I was chilling with these other people talking and being sociable almost on a competitive level to earn tips from adventurers.. I got to know the musicians around me and the dancers too.. It was an absolute blast.. I was so used to main tanking raids/higher level EQ stuff and it was stressful to the point where it was rewarding but still could become a chore at times.. Switching to that style of play felt very refreshing.

 

In "The Sims Online" (a game Gordon was at one time involved in) you could learn to play guitar better.. You hung around with like 2-3 other people all playing guitar and the best person emoted the coolest music.. There was a sense of hierarchy and common ground with the people involved and how well they could play.. It was a lot of fun and I enjoyed it.

 

I would like to see those experiences in Crowfall at some point.

 

Personally though I am really not worried. I forsee Todd and Gordon and Blair having all kinds of good ideas and experiences to pull from... Can you imagine working at a company and seeing the potential in a given project and watching some board meeting go down making some decision to bastardize the game that you work on day in and day out and having no ability to stop it? The investors, the business side dictates blah blah blah SWG turns into classes and the game tanks.

 

These guys have all been involved with projects like that. They're in charge... They get to make the decisions.. So far given the time involved they've already produced some great stuff. Once the building blocks are in place things will come together and smooth out.


“There is a savage beast in every man, and when you hand that man a sword or spear and send him forth to war, the beast stirs.” -Jorah Mormont of Bear Island

George R.R. Martin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many of you have a (relatively) limited perspective of experiences based on MMOs you've played.. New things make people feel uncomfortable.. Understandable.

 

The Vessel system allows for an incredible amount of versatility. Tired of playing the same class? Would you like some of the similar development you've already worked on in a new character?

 

We got that. Awesome.

 

The amount of creativity and flexibility in this system is nuts. You want to play the same archetype and guy? You want him to develop? You WANT to feel attached to the character you've made? That's fine. Keep rolling the same body. Have the same features..

 

Does it REALLY bug you that much to think of the body as a clone of the previous one? Is it the idea of permanence that frightens you? I don't get it. Is it that you can have a better quality body then lose that one and have to play with a lower quality one? What's the big deal?

 

It feels to me like people feel uneasy about the complexity and love the sense of comfort they get from identifying and playing with their same avatar.

 

THIS GAME IS BIGGER THAN THAT. IT ALOWS YOU TO BE BIGGER. THAT'S EXCITING A F.

 

I for one don't want the same droll limited color within the lines crap. I'm really dismayed and confused by people saying they hate the vessel system..

 

...

 

First off, don't worry... it isn't going to change.  Second, multiple reasons have been given here and in other threads (see The Big Reveal) on why some dislike the vessel system.  I agree with most of those sentiments.  However, if ACE decides to make vessel swapping within a campaign an essential part of strategy (ie, necessary to win--much like Overwatch) then I will move on.  If it is highly restricted within a campaign, so that it cannot be easily done, then I will tolerate it because there are many other excellent things about this game.  Of course, they could have both within the different campaign rulesets, which would be fine.  I would simply completely avoid any CW that allowed for easy swapping.     


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like vessel system to have limits.

 

Finding better / other / whatever body of SAME class. All fun.

Collecting other vessels for next campagin ? I am game.

Having 156 bodies for all archetypes according to situation ?.... What ?

 

Just please make like 1 limitation : You can only becomes one of 3 ? archetypes PER CAMPAIGN BASIS

Example : You enter a campaign as Ranger.... (1 of 3 of your chosen archetypes) then siege comes and you need to change to a healer ( druid = 2 of 3 archetypes) and in the end you want melee option so you go Templar (3 of 3). Now you can switch between those roles for THIS campaign.

 

It's still a lot of diversity. ( you get to choose 3 options you want + it's strategic deccission and not metter of "Need this" or "best body for ranger so I go ranger"

Still provides a way to check out all classes, dosnt cut from Vessel System idea at all.

 

Tl ; dr  READ IT.

 

PS : I just wish they put in more effort and detail to the system, and not just go : Pick what u want, when u want.

Edited by Naur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never said changeing should be easy or without limit just that it not require a pointless entry grind. With time based training there is plenty of room for mistakes especially if nodes take months to train. Vessels being tied to crafting means people who play more than one archtype have a much higher upkeep cost. Considering how much they talk about how deep crafting is going to be there is potential for the need of several vessels per archtype you play. Make the disadvantage runes lock intothe vessel and make it so you can't clear it so you can ruin a super rare well rolled body with poor choice. The only thing it doesnt give is that sense of attachment everone seems to want.

It gives you pretty much no persistent representation of your decisions.  The only real persistence is an account level talent tree screen.

 

It's really not what has been plaguing MMO's for a decade. Casuals or Ez moders make up a majority of the gaming population. It may be what some gamers have disliked about MMO's for the past decade but those Casual/Ez moders have sustained the games we play. Like it or not they are an important cog in the MMO machine. Hard core is also subjective in many ways, the mode you play or look forward to playing may be harder ruleset but if you put in half the time they do, they could be considered more hard core with different likes/dislikes.

 

This isn't a game that casuals and ez moders are supposed to sustain.  This is supposed to be a pvp mmo for the more dedicated gamer.  Hardcore is only subjective for those who aren't the most hardcore, because they don't want to admit they aren't hardcore. 

 

At the end of the day when it comes to a game like CF it's all really irrelevant. The CW's will have different rulesets so what someone else may like in the "ez mode" campaigns holds zero bearing on what you may like in the "Hard Core" Campaigns.

 

Sure but vessels are not something they are going to turn off, but I'll be glad to see them prove me wrong. 

 

As far as other games go, smart business dictates that you cater to the larger audience, what has truly plagued MMO's has been the lack of diversity/rulesets to cater to more than one type of gamer and/or changing those other ruleset to cater to one type of player.

 

This game is supposed to be smart business within reason... if they make the game too casual it is like dozens of other games on the market, it's not really smart business to make another clone...

 

imo of course.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So back in the old mmorpgs you made a character and you progressed it and invested a lot into learning the nuances of it and such.

 

People used to lock themselves into characters for an entire life of an mmo at times, let alone some 1-3month campaign.

So I guess we have to go to older oldshcool MMO to find that wasn't the case. Example: I firstly grinded to full fledge warrior. Then dropped some skills to become a mage/knight. After that I moved to 100% mage. Transitioning to Mage/Bard and finally ending with Mage/Bard/Tamer. All this with the same character.

 

Pretty damn cool. Did this make it hardcore? No. Did it give a deep sense of personal ownership with my avatar? Yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I guess we have to go to older oldshcool MMO to find that wasn't the case. Example: I firstly grinded to full fledge warrior. Then dropped some skills to become a mage/knight. After that I moved to 100% mage. Transitioning to Mage/Bard and finally ending with Mage/Bard/Tamer. All this with the same character.

 

Pretty damn cool. Did this make it hardcore? No. Did it give a deep sense of personal ownership with my avatar? Yes.

Yea some people get attached to LoL champions as well. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...