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Verot

Combat: I've been spoiled by BDO

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I've been playing Overwatch as a way to pass the time, and while I like that style of combat for Overwatch, I would not want it in CF. 

 

While they are different game styles, pacing and 'skill caps' I certainly wouldn't mind some overlap in terms of design from Overwatch

 

e.g. the role of tanks, support and utility archetypes and some approaches to power design


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While they are different game styles, pacing and 'skill caps' I certainly wouldn't mind some overlap in terms of design from Overwatch

 

e.g. the role of tanks, support and utility archetypes and some approaches to power design

Yeah I agree.  For others that may have never played Shadowbane, we never really had "tanks" in SB.  Sure we had the fighter archetype and professions like, Barbarian, Fighter Ranger, Fighterlock, Templar etc. but they were never really "tanks" in the true sense that they helped keep damage off of other players (like we think of tanks in WoW or other raid based games).  They were just beefier dps characters, lower damage than true glass cannons; what they really brought to the fight was utility and cc.


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I will try most games, if they talk about any sort of siege mechanics, but eventually give them up once I find out they are gimmicks and not true siege mechanics. The biggest reason that I am here to support CF is due to the siege aspect of the game, and getting back into a game where territorial conquest is a large part of the game. I can't play WoW or FFXIV for this reason; but I'm just one person.

I'll ask you to make a stretch and say, which is more likely, that ACE makes a competent game with siege?, or a successful MMO introducing a satisfying siege?


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I'll ask you to make a stretch and say, which is more likely, that ACE makes a competent game with siege?, or a successful MMO introducing a satisfying siege?

I'm not sure where you are headed with the question, but I would say that ACE is more likely to make a competent game with siege aspects.  This is why I am supporting ACE/CF.  I loved Shadowbane, and while not a SB 2.0, CF is still far and above any of the other games I have played that claimed siege mechanics; Darkfall, Mortal Online, ArcheAge etc.  I want the ability to work with other people (i.e. a guild) to conquer territory  by using a system designed around POI capture or asset destruction, of player buildings, and have that system be permanent in nature (no battlegrounds etc.).  Pathfinder is a similar game that appeals to me, but the development behind PFO seems to have been slowed down quite drastically.

 

Going back and re-reading your original post I quoted, I realized that I may be quite different to today's newer generation of gamers in that I had the advantage to play SB, and know what good asset destruction can look like.  Most newer gamers today have no idea what a true PvP environment can look like, let alone one that has asset destruction.  The only other game to keep my interest for "years" was EvE, also because it had territorial conquest and asset destruction; system and player owned station wars.  I also don't get hyped about marketing, and I'm a hard sell on items just because they are there; if I want something, then I look for that item in order to have what I want, I typically don't just get sold on the latest thing.  So I understand that having good combat would be the best foot forward for CF, when it comes to the general public.

Edited by Teufel

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Hopefully the clean up they are currently doing with animations will help this out a lot. I've been really hesitant to hop in and play because I really don't want a bad taste in my mouth for the combat this early on. The reason I think would is exactly as the OP stated and so far every stream i've watched the combat looks very stop and go ish, very stationary, lack of fluidity. I think the problem simply lies in characters being rooted too much when using abilities.

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I'm not sure where you are headed with the question, but I would say that ACE is more likely to make a competent game with siege aspects. This is why I am supporting ACE/CF. I loved Shadowbane, and while not a SB 2.0, CF is still far and above any of the other games I have played that claimed siege mechanics; Darkfall, Mortal Online, ArcheAge etc. I want the ability to work with other people (i.e. a guild) to conquer territory by using a system designed around POI capture or asset destruction, of player buildings, and have that system be permanent in nature (no battlegrounds etc.). Pathfinder is a similar game that appeals to me, but the development behind PFO seems to have been slowed down quite drastically.

 

Going back and re-reading your original post I quoted, I realized that I may be quite different to today's newer generation of gamers in that I had the advantage to play SB, and know what good asset destruction can look like. Most newer gamers today have no idea what a true PvP environment can look like, let alone one that has asset destruction. The only other game to keep my interest for "years" was EvE, also because it had territorial conquest and asset destruction; system and player owned station wars. I also don't get hyped about marketing, and I'm a hard sell on items just because they are there; if I want something, then I look for that item in order to have what I want, I typically don't just get sold on the latest thing. So I understand that having good combat would be the best foot forward for CF, when it comes to the general public.

I'll just seal that in the time capsule and come back to it in 2018.

 

For now, I'd say that modern action MMOs have already developed engaging action mechanisms, it's the strategic depth that's lacking in combat, especially MMOs where it would work well.

 

Will ACE reach that layer? No. Putting that in the time capsule too.


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I'll just seal that in the time capsule and come back to it in 2018.

 

For now, I'd say that modern action MMOs have already developed engaging action mechanisms, it's the strategic depth that's lacking in combat, especially MMOs where it would work well.

 

Will ACE reach that layer? No. Putting that in the time capsule too.

Sometimes the strategic depth is already there but it occurs at a pace that is too rapid for some gamers, so some gamers want to pretend that slowing it down adds more depth. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Sometimes the strategic depth is already there but it occurs at a pace that is too rapid for some gamers, so some gamers want to pretend that slowing it down adds more depth.

We know you like that BDO VN, it's K

Edited by bahamutkaiser

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We know you like that BDO VN, it's K

I think bdo is a bit too slow to have a really decent skill-ceiling actually, but I do appreciate action combat for being action combat and I wish people would stop trying to slow it down to closer to turn-based combat. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I think bdo is a bit too slow to have a really decent skill-ceiling actually, but I do appreciate action combat for being action combat and I wish people would stop trying to slow it down to closer to turn-based combat.

Good story, not relevant to the discussion, but it's a super classy derail.


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Good story, not relevant to the discussion, but it's a super classy derail.

Well it seems relevant because you are trying to mask your distaste for certain types of combat behind the concept of tactical depth where it doesn't really apply accurately. 

 

I am just sharing my opinion on such concepts.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I think bdo is a bit too slow to have a really decent skill-ceiling actually, but I do appreciate action combat for being action combat and I wish people would stop trying to slow it down to closer to turn-based combat. 

By "people" I assume you mean Devs? Because for the most the people on these forums want CFs combat to be just a bit faster or more fluid or w/e. Its been clear since day one ACE prefers combat that isn't twitch based. Where on the spectrum they go and how its received by the players is certainly a work in progress.

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By "people" I assume you mean Devs? Because for the most the people on these forums want CFs combat to be just a bit faster or more fluid or w/e. Its been clear since day one ACE prefers combat that isn't twitch based. Where on the spectrum they go and how its received by the players is certainly a work in progress.

Well the devs have experimented with pacing that many think was too slow, but also some players don't want the combat to reach a speed that actually creates a higher skill-ceiling, as it stands now the combat pacing is far from where it needs to be.

 

Unfortunately, it is gamer nature to want a speed right exactly where people can excel but not too fast for themselves, and often times that is not fast enough for the better players.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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That's just your paranoid myopically chauvinistic bias attacking anything that scares you. I don't care what you think, it is known.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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That's just your paranoid myopically chauvinistic bias attacking anything that scares you. I don't care what you think, it is known.

I'm sorry that you have taken the conversation this direction.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I'm sorry that you have taken the conversation this direction.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, your so funny. Ppl actually think bigotry is still civil in 2016, and act indignit when they get dismissed. Such a victim, everyone knows this, poor victimized VN, totes dignified and does no wrong.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, your so funny. Ppl actually think bigotry is still civil in 2016, and act indignit when they get dismissed. Such a victim, everyone knows this, poor victimized VN, totes dignified and does no wrong.

Let's keep this about bdo and combat as it is relevant to crowfall, thanks friend.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Let's keep this about bdo and combat as it is relevant to crowfall, thanks friend.

Oh no!, sorry for interrupting YOU, MB VN, continue the conversation. Just wait, he's now going to introduce totally new and useful material :'D


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I'll just seal that in the time capsule and come back to it in 2018.

 

For now, I'd say that modern action MMOs have already developed engaging action mechanisms, it's the strategic depth that's lacking in combat, especially MMOs where it would work well.

 

Will ACE reach that layer? No. Putting that in the time capsule too.

I'm discussing combat mechanics only to the point that they are fun, but not THE fun.  I want siege mechanics, as in cities that players can build, territories that we can conquer, and mechanics to engage in meaningful takeovers.  How the 1 on 1 combat mechanics are handled are not the "fun" for me; I derive more fun from the asset destruction, and building before the destruction.

 

I'm not arguing that modern games don't have good action combat mechanics, I'm arguing that no games currently have fun siege mechanics.  I have enjoyed playing Overwatch, but Overwatch has no siege mechanics.  The reason I brought it up in the first place is that good personal combat gets boring after a while, no matter how "fun" the combat mechanics can be; what keeps me in a game long term is the empire building aspect that I have only found in Shadowbane and EvE.

 

So for me, I don't need the engaging action combat, I need the siege mechanics.  I want the aspects of an RPG; character building, exploration, persistence in the world.  Not everyone wants action combat in their RPGs, but that doesn't mean we don't like action combat; I just feel it has no place in RPGs, hence not in CF.  Whatever type of personal combat is chosen eventually, it will not cause me to leave or stay with the game; what will cause me to leave or stay is how they handle the world building (letting players build their EKs and kingdoms in CWs) and how they utilize asset destruction.


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