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What about the story about the All Father and the Hunger? The Dragon Throne? The eternal War of the Gods and their chosen Immortal Crows? The struggle between Order, Balance, and Chaos? Is that not story?

Not really, it's background lore. A story in the context of his original point was asking if there was a narrative we follow, in which case, no. The god lore and us being a "champion" for them is just setup to explain the rules of the world. Our goal is to kill people in the god's name if you want to call that a story, but it's not in the traditional way. The argument of us "making up our own story" is more accurate. That being said, we have the option to not make a story either. It could be treated as a casual game where you kill people, try to win. Like I said Crowfall is just as much a simulator as it is a game. They gave us the tools to build castles, have sieges, create an economy, delegate land, etc. but what we as a community do with those tools is completely up to us.

 

If the game was full of morons who want to tank the economy and ruin the game, there's nothing we could do from the game failing. Luckily the community seems pretty devoted to a certain vision, but just like we are relying on J Todd Coleman and the team to make a game that is good, they are relying on us as a community to make the game good.

 

If you want the truth I think the overarching story is outside the game entirely. Could a game that doesn't follow the traditional rules of an mmo work without developer interference?

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Get this friendo...you and your buddies are writing Crowfall's story with your daily actions. You're going to be participating in events that people remember for YEARS to come. A campaign isn't some scripted, on rails, raid experience which everyone experiences in exactly the same way, it's a battle for supremacy where anything could happen.

 

Remember in that one fantasy series everyone likes, where a particular King is betrayed by some of his bannermen because of his haughty, arrogant attitude? I've seen that play out in Shadowbane before, and the same possibilities abound in Crowfall. Hell, someone will act as a "chronicler", aggregating all the weekly events in a campaign like some sort of news service.

 

Try to look at the bigger picture.

Like I said to Jah, this could happen, or it might not. I have faith in the community where it will happen but this game could easily tank if enough people weren't devoted. It's like D&D, the only way the game works and is fun is if everyone is devoted to a certain goal. If only 10% of the Crowfall players cared about making it Game of Thrones and the other 90% just cared about killing noobs, then the game will fail, and there's nothing that can change that. I believe in the vision but no, there isn't a story and that makes this game the wild west "friendo". This isn't shadowbane (which failed so I'm not sure why everyone cites it as evidence of this working). Crowfall will be new and will only work if we as players make it work. We can write our own stories but they need to be good enough that people actively want to help forge them.

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My point still stands. I mention illiteracy and comprehension, and you start talking about grammar.

 

Thanks for feeding me. Good value add.

 

You said that comprehension was an epidemic. What you should have said was that a "lack of comprehension" was an epidemic. You would have known that, if your comprehension was stronger. 0/2 big guy.

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This topic raises more questions in fact for me and your thoughts about them would be appreciated:

 

1)      Is there enough demand for a PvP game only?

2)      Is this game for hardcore players only and will there be enough of them to make this game viable for a good number of years?

3)      Isn’t there a risk to end up with low population if it is PvP only like many others before?

4)      What RPGPVP only game can we refer to that has been a real success (financially and for players) for five years or more to draw from?   

5)      Haven’t the most successful games drawn from a larger audience that is not only PvP oriented?

6)      How is Crowfall going to allow for non-hardcore players to have fun and not be at a disadvantage against hardcore guilds that may end up controlling the content?

7)      Typically players that like Crafting are less into PvP and vice and versa; how will this game not produce a discouraging conflict for these players?

Nevertheless I’m excited; enthusiastic about Crowfall's prospects and wish ArtCraft all the best of success. I’m like, many others, thirst for an epic and long lasting adventure!


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This topic raises more questions in fact for me and your thoughts about them would be appreciated:

 

1)      Is there enough demand for a PvP game only?

2)      Is this game for hardcore players only and will there be enough of them to make this game viable for a good number of years?

3)      Isn’t there a risk to end up with low population if it is PvP only like many others before?

4)      What RPGPVP only game can we refer to that has been a real success (financially and for players) for five years or more to draw from?   

5)      Haven’t the most successful games drawn from a larger audience that is not only PvP oriented?

6)      How is Crowfall going to allow for non-hardcore players to have fun and not be at a disadvantage against hardcore guilds that may end up controlling the content?

7)      Typically players that like Crafting are less into PvP and vice and versa; how will this game not produce a discouraging conflict for these players?

Nevertheless I’m excited; enthusiastic about Crowfall's prospects and wish ArtCraft all the best of success. I’m like, many others, thirst for an epic and long lasting adventure!

 

IMO, there are enough fans of competitive, strategy, PVP oriented games across various genres to provide CF with a sustainable player base. However, how many try and enjoy it is on the dev's shoulders. Just because a game is all about PVP, doesn't mean PVP fans will like it. Just like how the majority of AAA PVE focused mmos have had minimal success in comparison to WoW over the years.

 

PVP focused games are the most popular over all. MOBA, RTS, FPS, CCG, Survival, etc. So clearly people enjoy competing with one another.

 

Where past "PVP only" games have fallen short is the Uncle Bob situation along with whatever reasons people have. CF allowing for multiple rulesets and ways to play, opens up the doors to a wider variety of folks and not just the "hardcore."

 

DAoC, Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Darkfall, EVE, etc might have PVE as a means to an end, but the end is PVP and I assume most played such games to battle one another, not smack mindless mobs. CF won't be void of such creatures itself.

 

For those that don't want to PVP or have any conflict whatsoever, CF might not be for them and this is clearly stated. The EKs and varying rulesets should allow for ways to avoid PVP to some degree, but obviously come with limited play options.

 

Albion Online seems to be having an internal struggle trying to cater to non-PVP focused players and doesn't have the multi-rulset option to work with. However, there still appears to be a variety of players.

 

At this point, it is all unknown. CF could be a total flop or huge success. Highly dependent on the game's quality and ability to not only pull in players, but retain them. Adding more PVE or whatever feature simply to cater to another crowd in hopes to save a dying game is likely to drive off just as many if not more than it brings in.

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Yes. I would love them add more. But that's because I'm greedy and want everything always.

 

Like all games though I have to pick my battles and ask myself, "will this have enough in it for me to enjoy?" If the answer is yes then I buy it.

 

And Crowfall "has enough" for me to put money down on it.

By put money down on it, do you mean take other people's in game assets for an EK spot which will have little to no affect on the actual game?

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This topic raises more questions in fact for me and your thoughts about them would be appreciated:

 

1)      Is there enough demand for a PvP game only?

2)      Is this game for hardcore players only and will there be enough of them to make this game viable for a good number of years?

3)      Isn’t there a risk to end up with low population if it is PvP only like many others before?

4)      What RPGPVP only game can we refer to that has been a real success (financially and for players) for five years or more to draw from?   

5)      Haven’t the most successful games drawn from a larger audience that is not only PvP oriented?

6)      How is Crowfall going to allow for non-hardcore players to have fun and not be at a disadvantage against hardcore guilds that may end up controlling the content?

7)      Typically players that like Crafting are less into PvP and vice and versa; how will this game not produce a discouraging conflict for these players?

Nevertheless I’m excited; enthusiastic about Crowfall's prospects and wish ArtCraft all the best of success. I’m like, many others, thirst for an epic and long lasting adventure!

 

1) There is literally more people that play player vs player or team vs team games then any other. We generally dont call something like overwatch pvp but its actually what it is. Competition, historically, has always been the core to 'games'. Either directly like PVP or indirectly like PVE. There should be no question for the demand.

 

2) I would consider the Dreggs for hardcore players, EK's for PVE and casual players. All the people who fit somewhere in the middle will find their place along the rings in between.

 

3) Its not pvp only. 

 

4) Darkfall could be argued as a success, for what it is. Shadowbane another. Each had their time frame of success. But ultimately had the same issues. Crowfall creators are trying to take the successful parts of those games and put it in an entirely different framework. Working toward eliminating the character progression grind and combining that with the ability to offer a new game play experience every few weeks. That will likely be the key to success, successfully giving players a new world with new restrictions, new objectives, new difficulties, constantly. And doing so in a way that requires either little or no increased dev costs for them.

 

5) People take WoW as a perfect example of MMORPG. The reason why is they were able to be successful, was they started with fun new content never truely done before, pull enough people that as other products came out trying to emulate them but with some unique features, they had the capital to integrate the new unique features in to their game. So instead of leaving WoW for that unique feature, you stay in WoW and enjoy how the unique feature can be experienced in WoW itself. So its became this monster of such depth and scale of content, you cannot beat it with in the confines of classic MMORPG, its to much bang for its buck. So you have to break the classic MMORPG framework, create something WoW cannot reproduce with out demoing their own framework. 

 

6) Honestly, the pvp central people more than likely, wont have the biggest EK's. This will be driven for the fact those resources that would create these EK's would be diverted to the vast amount of resources used in pvp in these playset rings. In this respect, a skilled pvper is worth less to a guild then a person who can create maps that shows resources, a person who is willing to spend the time to make the perfect items, the person who knows how economy works and can manipulate it to make much more resources then a person grinding away on a pvp campaign. Short answer: Player Economy and EK's.

 

7) The conflict will exist between harvesters and PVPers, not crafters. Guildies will snatch up crafters to bring to the campaigns and worship them, feed them, groom them, flatter them, etc. 

Edited by Vectious

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IMO, there are enough fans of competitive, strategy, PVP oriented games across various genres to provide CF with a sustainable player base. However, how many try and enjoy it is on the dev's shoulders. Just because a game is all about PVP, doesn't mean PVP fans will like it. Just like how the majority of AAA PVE focused mmos have had minimal success in comparison to WoW over the years.

 

PVP focused games are the most popular over all. MOBA, RTS, FPS, CCG, Survival, etc. So clearly people enjoy competing with one another.

 

Where past "PVP only" games have fallen short is the Uncle Bob situation along with whatever reasons people have. CF allowing for multiple rulesets and ways to play, opens up the doors to a wider variety of folks and not just the "hardcore."

 

DAoC, Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Darkfall, EVE, etc might have PVE as a means to an end, but the end is PVP and I assume most played such games to battle one another, not smack mindless mobs. CF won't be void of such creatures itself.

 

For those that don't want to PVP or have any conflict whatsoever, CF might not be for them and this is clearly stated. The EKs and varying rulesets should allow for ways to avoid PVP to some degree, but obviously come with limited play options.

 

Albion Online seems to be having an internal struggle trying to cater to non-PVP focused players and doesn't have the multi-rulset option to work with. However, there still appears to be a variety of players.

 

At this point, it is all unknown. CF could be a total flop or huge success. Highly dependent on the game's quality and ability to not only pull in players, but retain them. Adding more PVE or whatever feature simply to cater to another crowd in hopes to save a dying game is likely to drive off just as many if not more than it brings in.

 

Thank you for your response and the time you took to formulate it. I appreciate the input!    


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Thank you for your response and the time you took to formulate it. I appreciate the input!    

Edited by Baston

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2 hours ago, Caino said:

Any new info on the "PVE" aspect of crowfall - given all the changes in direction recently?

What changes in direction?

They split archetypes into races and classes aka more cosmetic/stat variation per role.

"PVE" is still not necessary nor part of the design outside of environmental danger.

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On 7/13/2016 at 1:32 PM, Caino said:

First of all, I know this game is meant to be focused on PVP, which I love, and am fully on board with.

I'm curious if there will, however, be any sort of central story arc in PVE, or groupable content outside of the PVP scenarios.

So far in alpha it seems that the PVE is just to kill mobs on your way to engage PVP players. It would be great if there were PVE situations that can be done outside of PVP as well as inside.

 

Thoughts?

 

All pve is crafting and gathering 

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Environmental danger. There was a big swamp with heavy fog in the graphics video and it made me think of how the world might also be our adversary, not just the creatures and people in it.

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2 hours ago, baerin said:

Environmental danger. There was a big swamp with heavy fog in the graphics video and it made me think of how the world might also be our adversary, not just the creatures and people in it.

While they could end up doing various things with the flexible rule system, my assumption is the "environment" will make game play more difficult as time progresses. Not sure all of which they've stated or alluded to, but at least creatures will change and become more difficult over time. Resources are supposed to become more scarce and as we've already experienced, the "world" itself could be harmful such as the Hunger Dome decreasing size mechanic. 

Would be interesting to see ares of land become less habitable and passable be it in general or as time passes to organically drive players to one another instead of different groups hanging out in their respective corners until "ready." This could create chokes and important navigation choices that don't follow the typical, mountain/wall/gate insert one way only system. Groups could choose to pass through a poisonous swamp for example and take damage or some other negative status and surprise attack an enemy.

To me, this is all potential "PVE" but not likely what some would put under that label. Agree would be good potential question.

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