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He's got lots of those.

I think the issue is more that shadowbane players aren't exposed to a lot of mmorpgs so they kind of don't understand the lay of the land. 

 

If you really want to understand the connotation of certain nomenclature you really have to look at the standards of the industry, which means you are basically looking at things following the lineage of EQ ===> WoW ===> WoW clones... doing so will easily make you understand how "instancing" is used. 

 

Hell, even WoW has garrisons and such now to change their own definition of instancing which they helped popularize.

 

I think jah realizes he kind of can't argue about the definition of instancing here because of things like player housing and such in mmorpgs. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Really guys, must there be PvP everywhere? For my part I thought: nice, pvp toggle is possible, so we can hold tournaments! thats lovely, I can see the events rolling in. We might even get EKs specia

I was thinking it might make sense to have reduced upkeep for PvP enabled EKs. This creates an incentive, but not a particularly powerful one. Scummy EKs might have better prices, but they will also h

If PvP control is at the parcel level (like in that prototype screenshot) you could have a friendly high-class EK, with just one really bad neighborhood 

I think jah realizes he kind of can't argue about the definition of instancing here because of things like player housing and such in mmorpgs. 

 

No, I realized that replying to you just encourages you to fill the thread with more of your personal definitions, gut intuitions, chest thumping, and baseless assumptions that everyone else is a neophyte.

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No, I realized that replying to you just encourages you to fill the thread with more of your personal definitions, gut intuitions, chest thumping, and baseless assumptions that everyone else is a neophyte.

I just wanted to make sure you understood that EKs were instances, you seem very resilient to that fact though but it is ok, you will see when the game comes out. 

 

I mean unless you want to call my EK which I will never touch or put anything into a "server"....

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I see it working a lot like Second Life. Each parcel of land you can establish permission rights. Build, modify, PvP, guild entry, open, private etc.

 

To tie these permission rights to upkeep costs I'm not sure would work well.

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I think it would be interesting if there were some reward associated with allowing PvP in your EK. Perhaps a slight bonus to crafting, or some other variable. This might encourage more PvP-allowing EKs. Thoughts?

 

I like the general idea of beeing able to allow/not allow pvp & destruction in the ek's. However i don't think that rewards given by the game will be necessary. We already get rewards. If we use a pvp parcel as training ground, we will gain fighting experience. If we use them for tournaments, we will get prestige (or the favour to know our rightful place now). If we use them for RP reasons (yes, you can find the warrior guild in that castle over there, but, uhm, well, good luck) we will get flair. That should be enough (at least for me it is) and i don't see why ACE should try to get more people into the EK's. We start in the EK's anyway. It might be more important the other way around -- trying to get more people into the campaigns.

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The PvP option in EKs allows players to create their own BGs, Arenas and even mini-MMORGP worlds.  It is about customization and choice, and players will have their own reasons for valuing PvP on their EKs (it doesn't need any external bonuses beyond what the players themselves provide). 

 

That being said, some EKs may be excellently crafted in time and may be nearly as much fun to play in as the CWs (players are creative, after all).  We may find ourselves heading to Ragnar's EK for a fun fight on a Friday night...

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For those questioning why anyone would want their entire EK to be full PvP, and whether this entails risk and should involve some reward, you should keep in mind that some guilds and players have been waging war across multiple MMORPG.s for a decade and a half if not more. The prospect of being able to set up your own world, be it for yourself or your guild alone, and to engage in conflict with that of your enemy, eliminating all manner of variables, excuses and outside interference, is significantly appealing to some.

 

As for negatives to EK's competing with CW's, I consider this a non-issue. The two are entirely different, and I fully expect they will both be healthily taken advantage of.

 

Regarding the question, does PvP need to be everywhere? No, it doesn't, hence it being entirely optional in CF. :)

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lol ... isnt that point of a noble's land and title to show their dignity and prestige?  If you are a PvPer you want your EK to reflect that.  If you are a roleplayer you want the same.  The more players become invested in their relative EKs the more they sign on.  The more people on, the moar tears to harvest.  Circle of Life.

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I just wanted to make sure you understood that EKs were instances, you seem very resilient to that fact though but it is ok, you will see when the game comes out. 

 

I mean unless you want to call my EK which I will never touch or put anything into a "server"....

Well if we wanna be technical then a fullblown open world, would also be an "instance".

 

And really, do you have any evidence, that a EK can't with time and resources be as big as a CW in the end?

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Well if we wanna be technical then a fullblown open world, would also be an "instance".

 

And really, do you have any evidence, that a EK can't with time and resources be as big as a CW in the end?

Well they literally said EKs wont be as big as CWs... I mean if we are going to pretend that developer intent is gospel then it goes both ways.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Well they literally said EKs wont be as big as CWs... I mean if we are going to pretend that developer intent is gospel then it goes both ways.

They also literally said EKs are full blown servers not just instances. Sorry can't just pick and chose what's gospel and what's not to suit your own needs.

 

Jah already posted the quote but here it is again:

"The other major difference between a kingdom and a housing instance is the concurrent player population. These are full MMO servers, so we expect them to support hundreds (if not a thousand+) concurrent players."

 

Anyways, semantics and definition arguments are stupid, and off topic currently.

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They also literally said EKs are full blown servers not just instances. Sorry can't just pick and chose what's gospel and what's not to suit your own needs.

 

Jah already posted the quote but here it is again:

"The other major difference between a kingdom and a housing instance is the concurrent player population. These are full MMO servers, so we expect them to support hundreds (if not a thousand+) concurrent players."

 

Anyways, semantics and definition arguments are stupid, and off topic currently.

Uh I think you clearly didn't read my post and should reread it. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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You can look at every game with instancing to understand what instancing is.  Some games use it for housing, some use it for dungeons, some for both...

 

This is like mmo basic stuff.  An instance is an area separate from the persistent world where smaller amounts of players go in for a specific instanced feature, whether that be 1 person and their cozy little home, or 40 players and their raid. 

 

The only argument you MIGHT have is that ACE markets EKs as being capable of being huge, but we already know EKs will not be even remotely close to the size of an actual server. 

What is an actual server?  Now days it takes multiple servers to run 1 game world.  You have servers for the chat, servers for the game world, and servers for the crafting.  Then you have multiple servers that actually handle the game world.  It is possible that 1 EK will take up multiple hardware servers, because the current population in that EK is near max; more probable is that multiple EKs will be put on 1 server because they are solo EKs.  But the spectrum will be wide.

 

The way that ACE is setting it up, EKs will be 100% permanent for players, if they desire that, while the CWs will eventually end, and that world will be closed down.  The tech being talked about and being put in place would allow for multiple EKs to be put together, and in theory all EKs could be put together for a super mega world larger than any CW.

 

There are control measures in place that ACE is using.  It looks like EK owners are going to be able to deny groups of people from ever entering their EK.  Due to that mechanic we may have non-accessible EKs, but they will never be "instances" like housing in Wildstar.  If anything ACE seems to want to provide the tools so the community can create "non-instanced" EKs for social interaction.

 

Specifically talking Unity and Instancing, an instance would be an exact copy of something that already exists.  In typical housing schemes, the base land/parcel is an instance and then each instance can be decorated to fit the owner.  In Crowfall this will not be the case for either EKs or CWs.  EKs will have a max value attribute for how large an EK can spread, but each EK will be unique because of the parcel tiles and configuration.  The storage of those digital pixels will have to be stored as unique, and really means each EK is not an instance of another.  I'm guessing that CWs will actually use "instanced" land parcels for their creation, but they will be randomly placed; so we could say that CWs are using instances.

 

In my gaming history the worst use of instancing I've come across were the "guild" plots in Age of Conan.  Those were true instances; everything was the same, and you had dozens of copies of the same exact place.  Or as others have said, WoW uses instancing for it's raids.  Exact copies that are no different for each person that enters that specific dungeon.

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What is an actual server?  Now days it takes multiple servers to run 1 game world.  You have servers for the chat, servers for the game world, and servers for the crafting.  Then you have multiple servers that actually handle the game world.  It is possible that 1 EK will take up multiple hardware servers, because the current population in that EK is near max; more probable is that multiple EKs will be put on 1 server because they are solo EKs.  But the spectrum will be wide.

 

The way that ACE is setting it up, EKs will be 100% permanent for players, if they desire that, while the CWs will eventually end, and that world will be closed down.  The tech being talked about and being put in place would allow for multiple EKs to be put together, and in theory all EKs could be put together for a super mega world larger than any CW.

 

There are control measures in place that ACE is using.  It looks like EK owners are going to be able to deny groups of people from ever entering their EK.  Due to that mechanic we may have non-accessible EKs, but they will never be "instances" like housing in Wildstar.  If anything ACE seems to want to provide the tools so the community can create "non-instanced" EKs for social interaction.

 

Specifically talking Unity and Instancing, an instance would be an exact copy of something that already exists.  In typical housing schemes, the base land/parcel is an instance and then each instance can be decorated to fit the owner.  In Crowfall this will not be the case for either EKs or CWs.  EKs will have a max value attribute for how large an EK can spread, but each EK will be unique because of the parcel tiles and configuration.  The storage of those digital pixels will have to be stored as unique, and really means each EK is not an instance of another.  I'm guessing that CWs will actually use "instanced" land parcels for their creation, but they will be randomly placed; so we could say that CWs are using instances.

 

In my gaming history the worst use of instancing I've come across were the "guild" plots in Age of Conan.  Those were true instances; everything was the same, and you had dozens of copies of the same exact place.  Or as others have said, WoW uses instancing for it's raids.  Exact copies that are no different for each person that enters that specific dungeon.

Server/shard/instance it all varies I just go by the size of the instance relative to the game.  CWs are servers to me, EKs are instances because they are a lot smaller than CWs...

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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and in theory all EKs could be put together for a super mega world larger than any CW.

 

 

That would be freaking epic if that somehow ended up happening xD

 

Server/shard/instance it all varies I just go by the size of the instance relative to the game.  CWs are servers to me, EKs are instances because they are a lot smaller than CWs...

 

So what you saying is you basically make up your own definitions and try to argue from that?... That is not how the world works, neither the real one or the digital...

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