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Deloria

Shadowbane... please explain it to me like I'm 5.

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...cos I actually was 5 when Shadowbane was released. I have no relationship to it. No interest in reliving it (obviously) and really apart from what I read on Wikipedia I have no idea why so many people are keyed up about making Crowfall a "child of Shadowbane"  - but there's a lot of heat on the forums about comparing features and all that.

 

Can somebody explain why so many people want this game to be like an old game from 2003?  I ask only to learn.

 

 

For context I'm a bit nervous of old folks and their nostalgia rants. I panic-quit Shroud of the Avatar cos so many old crusty people were complaining in a forum that it wasn't the Ultima PvP experience they had been 'promised'.

 

<----- Looking for reassurance.

Edited by Deloria

www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

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did I get i right, you quit shroud of the avatar  because somebody complained on the forums they did not like thе game ?

No I quit because there was a small clique of very powerful players ( who had invested many tens of thousands of dollars) getting to actually dictate a lot of game development and trying to relive some sentimental notion of what online gaming used to be like when they were in short pants.

 

The forums basically became shouting matches over such things as which features were betraying the Ultima legacy etc etc.. often weighted heavily towards those players who had invested fortunes and so had the developers ear. For a lot of players it wasn't about developing a new game, but investing in the reanimation of an old one... If that makes sense?


www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

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...cos I actually was 5 when Shadowbane was released. I have no relationship to it. No interest in reliving it (obviously) and really apart from what I read on Wikipedia I have no idea why so many people are keyed up about making Crowfall a "child of Shadowbane"  - but there's a lot of heat on the forums about comparing features and all that.

 

Can somebody explain why so many people want this game to be like an old game from 2003?  I ask only to learn.

 

 

For context I'm a bit nervous of old folks and their nostalgia rants. I panic-quit Shroud of the Avatar cos so many old crusty people were complaining in a forum that it wasn't the Ultima PvP experience they had been 'promised'.

 

<----- Looking for reassurance.

 

Nostalgia power.

Since Shadowbane is Todd child, people naturally are inclined to think that Crowfall is Shadowbane Remastred.

Why they want this ? No idea, for me Shadowbane wasn't even mediocre game, was down there on lower shelfs.

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...cos I actually was 5 when Shadowbane was released. I have no relationship to it. No interest in reliving it (obviously) and really apart from what I read on Wikipedia I have no idea why so many people are keyed up about making Crowfall a "child of Shadowbane"  - but there's a lot of heat on the forums about comparing features and all that.

 

Can somebody explain why so many people want this game to be like an old game from 2003?  I ask only to learn.

 

 

For context I'm a bit nervous of old folks and their nostalgia rants. I panic-quit Shroud of the Avatar cos so many old crusty people were complaining in a forum that it wasn't the Ultima PvP experience they had been 'promised'.

 

<----- Looking for reassurance.

It isn't that so many people want it to be like that game, it is only that the ones that do want it are extremely vocal.  When crowfall was first announced they marketed to the shadowbane/wizard101 crowd because JTC had a following from those games...  That helped build initial interest and hype for crowfall.

 

The nostalgia rants are a valid concern, generally people who consider themselves primarily shadowbane players, are stuck in the past.

 

The reality of it is shadowbane is a game that launched and then very quickly died out.  The game literally crashed every 10mins while playing and even while not crashing it was very poorly optimized.  Like it was probably less stable than crowfall has ever been in pre-alpha, and that was at release.

 

Some people liked the game so much though, for whatever reason, maybe the features just really resonated with what they wanted, maybe it is because they were unable to adapt to more challenging games (shadowbane had a very low skill-ceiling) maybe it was some of both. 

 

Either way those players really hope this is shadowbane 2.0, but I think most of the people here just hope it is its own game that can actually run without crashing every 10 seconds. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Shadowbane gave players and guilds the ability to forge the game world with freedom, repercussions for behavior, reasons to fight, and a sense of purpose with self owned cities that could be sacked. There was true loss, great character building, and resources worth dying over. The history of nation / guild warfare, per server, all player made would have made a good book or movie.


Hammers High !!  Master Brewer of the Dwarven Hold Mithril Warhammers

 

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...... a small clique of very powerful ......... ( who had invested many ....... of dollars) getting to actually dictate a lot .................. like when they were in short pants.

 

This is life, get used to it.

 

I do not think anybody here wants an exact replica of Shadowbane, what most people probably want is a new better game that would follow the same principles that made Shadowbane and Ultima online great and different from the mainstream titles of today. Free pvp, politics, emphasis on crafting over raiding etc.

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Nostalgia power.

Since Shadowbane is Todd child, people naturally are inclined to think that Crowfall is Shadowbane Remastred.

 

That, and Todd himself has made the fact fairly clear before KS.

 

And its the only game to ever pull these systems together. In short, it was an amazing and long term war / siege experience with many levels of strategy and political depth. Its a hard thing to explain if you didn't get to experience it. There are a million threads here you can pull up though if this is a serious question that answer the question. I';ll see if I can find a few.

 

As for "nostalgia," we played a lot of games. Turns out not all nostalgia is created equal. SB ruined all other games for me and for a lot of people. I see that quote or a flavor of it constantly when the game comes up. It made every other game just seem meaningless to me. They all feel as if they are rail shooters with no real and meaningful player decisions, if you're honest. Believe me, you don't want this game without those SB features.

 

edit: I backed this game because Todd made it clear this it will carry the spiritual torch of SB so that I can (hopefully) recreate and relive epic stories like these:

 

http://winterblades.net/history/

Edited by coolwaters

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Nostalgia power.

Since Shadowbane is Todd child, people naturally are inclined to think that Crowfall is Shadowbane Remastred.

Why they want this ? No idea, for me Shadowbane wasn't even mediocre game, was down there on lower shelfs.

Yeah honestly I think some people get the vision confused with the game. Todd and ACE are trying to recapture the vision that inspired them to make Shadowbane and not really the actual game itself. ACE isn't trying to make a successor here, they are trying to realize the vision they've had all along. Sounds like just semantics sure but still I feel like some peoples judgments get clouded when they go too far to one side of that spectrum.

Edited by pang

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It was very much like Crowfall will be. No questing. It was a game of conquest, city building, territory control, politics, alliances, subterfuge and betrayal. I've attended a twelve hour siege. I've seen over 400 people on the field trying to attack/defend a castle (think siege perilous on a grand scale... only with poorly made socksty server performance). I've been locked in server wars that lasted months, siege after siege, hour after hour. Never in a game I had played before could you so thoroughly destroy an opponent, to make them pay, to demoralize them for things as small as perceived slights either in game or on the official political forums.  It was glorious! It was all about group spec make up and coordination over VOIP. Those that organized and communicated and played the political game well thrived. Those that didn't.... not so much. Much of that will be true here.

 

The problem with SB is it was buggy as hell out of the gate, it was rushed to market. The beta guilds had a large advantage. For a game to survive there must be sheep. A Guild/Nation could  thoroughly destroy something another Guild/Nation had spent months building in a matter of hours, days, weeks or months if one counts server wars. Simply put, the game cannibalized itself. There were no more sheep, there was nowhere for the weaker nation to go if their enemy was determined enough. People simply quit. There was no reset mechanic. There was no campaign cycle. There was no Eternal Kingdom. It was a permanent, harsh sandbox.

 

What they have done here is loosely model the game after SB, lend permanence with the EK and set a mechanic for reset. Everyone will have a chance to "reset the board". 

 

It will be fun times indeed.


.

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Can somebody explain why so many people want this game to be like an old game from 2003?  I ask only to learn.

 

For context I'm a bit nervous of old folks and their nostalgia rants. I panic-quit Shroud of the Avatar cos so many old crusty people were complaining in a forum that it wasn't the Ultima PvP experience they had been 'promised'.

A lot of the posts have given you theory or background to player state, but not game state.  So I will try and let you in on why I enjoyed Shadowbane, and then relate that to what others have already posted.

 

It first started with the races at character creation.  There were 12 different playable races that had their own strengths and weaknesses.  These were not just bland re-skins, but actual differences.  A Half-Giant Templar was played slightly different than a Human Templar; humans were smarter and better casters, while HGs were stronger and better with a 2H sword.

 

After choosing a race, you then chose an archetype; fighter, rogue, mage, healer.  From those archetypes you chose a profession, and there were 22 professions you could choose, and some professions were allowed across 2 archetypes.  A mage assassin played differently than a rogue assassin, and a fighter ranger played differently than a rogue ranger.

 

That was base character creation, and once past a certain level you were able to apply discipline runes, that differentiated your character even more.

 

Next I want to mention city building.  A huge part of the game was the meta-gaming of guild warfare, and cities were a large part of that.  The "big" PvP events were banes (sieges) against enemy cities.  The cities though were player made, and had different physical layouts and purposes.  Age of Conan in contrast had instanced guild housing.  In Shadowbane the cities were built wherever you wanted to lay down your Tree of Life.  Your city was a "safe" place, and the place your trained your high-end skills.

 

To me cities and banes were the thing that made SB unique and why I love asset destruction.

 

Yes there was the famous SB.exe, and there were lots of other bugs/dupes.  But all in all the game allowed the players to be in charge, instead of being on tracks.  If I had to sum up why I like SB it would be because of the character customization (skill set not avatar look) and asset destruction.

 

Underlined below are a few more reasons that others posted, that I also found attractive about SB.

I do not think anybody here wants an exact replica of Shadowbane, what most people probably want is a new better game that would follow the same principles that made Shadowbane and Ultima online great and different from the mainstream titles of today. Free pvp, politics, emphasis on crafting over raiding etc.

 

 

Shadowbane gave players and guilds the ability to forge the game world with freedom, repercussions for behavior, reasons to fight, and a sense of purpose with self owned cities that could be sacked. There was true loss, great character building, and resources worth dying over. The history of nation / guild warfare, per server, all player made would have made a good book or movie.

 

In a way I envy you Deloria, because you never knew about or played SB.  SB was not my first game; I had played UO and EQ1 before that.  But it was SB that captured my gaming heart and has tainted all other MMORPGs since.


lUvvzPy.png

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If you want to understand what Shadowbane wanted to create look to EvE Online's largest and most famous war, The Fountain war. Player driven emergent gameplay on this scale has never been seen in gaming before. Unfortunately much of Shadowbane has not been well documented nor did it have the time to evolve mechanically as EvE has. Anyway, here is a good summary.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZQ4ejFq7BY

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...

 

The reality of it is shadowbane is a game that launched and then very quickly died out.  The game literally crashed every 10mins while playing and even while not crashing it was very poorly optimized.  Like it was probably less stable than crowfall has ever been in pre-alpha, and that was at release.

 

...

 

Either way those players really hope this is shadowbane 2.0, but I think most of the people here just hope it is its own game that can actually run without crashing every 10 seconds. 

 

I honestly can't tell if you are being facetious or you are just stupid. Nobody wants a Shadowbane 2.0 (however one might define that) so that we can experience a buggy, laggy, rushed mess like Shadowbane was on launch (a lot of that stuff was fixed later, though not nearly to the degree it should have been). Wanting Crowfall to follow in Shadowbanes footsteps and wanting smooth bug free game play are not mutually exclusive. In fact they have literally nothing at all to do with each other. Your attempt to link the two is mind boggling.

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I honestly can't tell if you are being facetious or you are just stupid. Nobody wants a Shadowbane 2.0 (however one might define that) so that we can experience a buggy, laggy, rushed mess like Shadowbane was on launch (a lot of that stuff was fixed later, though not nearly to the degree it should have been). Wanting Crowfall to follow in Shadowbanes footsteps and wanting smooth bug free game play are not mutually exclusive. In fact they have literally nothing at all to do with each other. Your attempt to link the two is mind boggling.

Lots of people want shadowbane 2.0... The point about it being buggy is that people remember the game with rose-tinted goggles in general.  Sorry you failed to miss that point, buddy. 

 

The game was an unplayable mess with some ok ideas... those ideas were not exclusive to that game either.  The people begging for shadowbane 2.0 are the people that played after the game pretty much shriveled up and died... They want to recreate their nostalgia, not learn from things and evolve.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Lots of people want shadowbane 2.0... The point about it being buggy is that people remember the game with rose-tinted goggles in general.  Sorry you failed to miss that point, buddy. 

 

The game was an unplayable mess with some ok ideas... those ideas were not exclusive to that game either.  The people begging for shadowbane 2.0 are the people that played after the game pretty much shriveled up and died... They want to recreate their nostalgia, not learn from things and evolve.

 

Okay I figured it out, you're just stupid.

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That's a mighty fine point you're making, I reckon. 

 

It's not a point, it's an observation on your ability to form rational and intelligent arguments, and my way of saying I no longer care to continue this discussion with you.

Edited by syiss

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It's not a point, it's an observation on your ability to form rational and intelligent arguments, and my way of saying I no longer care to continue this discussion with you.

Come down off of that pedestal, I don't even know what possibly could have made you think you belong up there.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I'm not allowed to say what VN is doing, but I recommend that you ignore it rather then letting him provoke you into a response that will get you in trouble.

All I am doing is sharing a sentiment that JTC himself shared about shadowbane.

 

The game hemorrhaged players... it was not some magical narnia greatest mmo ever like some people make it out to be. 

 

It was a buggy mess, unplayable by industry standards, and nostalgia can often cloud reality.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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