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Deloria

Shadowbane... please explain it to me like I'm 5.

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Well.. I don't know if you noticed - but this community right now is tiny. Like.. incredibly small.

 

Go through the list of community fan sites and most have lock up shop. The current crow count is 132,000 including those spread across multi accounts..

 

Basically you guys ARE my community. I am yours. We are it. 

Every time that a player leaves, or drops out because they're disenchanted in either the community or the game.. that loses faith in any of us... That's a devastating loss.

 

Maybe when the game runs to open beta things will get bigger - more players will wake up. But right now we're kind of holding the wall together. Outnumbered but sticking with it. 

 

There's only one real community - and we should be focused on making it better - you pack of vicious dogs you!

I like your posts, you seem to have a good perspective of the overall gaming scene whereas some people are often very sheltered and assume whatever singular game they play represents how things are on a large scale.

 

Very early in development gordon walton talked about needing sheep for a game.  In regards to that we should be trying to let everyone explore whether crowfall (the actual crowfall with the actual vision the devs intend) is a game that suits them.  Instead of them being greeted by toxic players at the gate who are looking to misrepresent the game as some throwback to their favorite game that it isn't. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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This community will be unpleasant people to each other as soon as the game launches. You can hide it all you want on the forums, but it will visible in game and it should not be hidden in game...

 

Yeah but that's smacktalk..totally natural. All part of the spirit. I love watching forum wars personally - but I would leave Crowfall in a heartbeat if I thought the community was actually turning sour.

 

I think there's a big difference between smack talk for the sake of game rivalry and the sort of  insecure unpleasantness that tips over into community rancor. The vast majority of gamers know the difference and will walk away from a site or a game pretty quick if it happens.

 

When the community is only a few hundred regular posters - as we are now - the danger will always be that even a few rotten posters can have an over-proportionate and  devastating impact.

 

Bring on the smack talk tho!

 

/signed yo momma so fat I'm sittin' inside her as I type this.


www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

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I like your posts, you seem to have a good perspective of the overall gaming scene whereas some people are often very sheltered and assume whatever singular game they play represents how things are on a large scale.

 

Very early in development gordon walton talked about needing sheep for a game.  In regards to that we should be trying to let everyone explore whether crowfall (the actual crowfall with the actual vision the devs intend) is a game that suits them.  Instead of them being greeted by toxic players at the gate who are looking to misrepresent the game as some throwback to their favorite game that it isn't. 

 

 

Aww shucks :wub: 

 

 

I think.. if I'm toootally honest theres a generational thing going on here.

 

Like decades ago I don't think players had many sites to go - many games to play. There was probably one or two places they would hang. One big game they would subscribe to for ages...

 

Nowadays we get everything everywhere.. so many games - so many social mediums. Half the time I'm online gaming I still have skype on or I'm texting friends or doing something.. I have 80 games in myt steam closet..most of which I never played. There's not enough time to do everything I want to do and there are maybe 10 or 15 games I'm curious about right now... Just CF is tickling my fancy at this particular moment.

Its gotta stay worth the effort or I move on.. something else will overtake it. I think I'm probably pretty representative of the "great unwashed" audience of gamers... rather than some hardcore PvPer or anything.

 

Point is: I think thats my generation. I think younger (late-millennials?) players will go to the place that's MOST interesting, rather than the *cough* more mature crowd who will go to the *only* place that's interesting... So many players seem to say "OMG Crowfall is like my last chance in mmos" or "OMG Shadowbane was the only game for me" or.. well you know..like serious?

As if there weren't 4 million other different ways to find fun online or a nice social community.

 

And that last part: Community.. that trumps everything. Even if a game turns into same-old same-old. Even if it struggle at the edge of ruin. Even if it never reaches its full potential...  if the community is awesome you can stick it for years.


www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

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Yeah but that's smacktalk..totally natural. All part of the spirit. I love watching forum wars personally - but I would leave Crowfall in a heartbeat if I thought the community was actually turning sour.

 

I think there's a big difference between smack talk for the sake of game rivalry and the sort of  insecure unpleasantness that tips over into community rancor. The vast majority of gamers know the difference and will walk away from a site or a game pretty quick if it happens.

 

When the community is only a few hundred regular posters - as we are now - the danger will always be that even a few rotten posters can have an over-proportionate and  devastating impact.

 

Bring on the smack talk tho!

 

/signed yo momma so fat I'm sittin' inside her as I type this.

 

I don't disagree with you, though I'd ask you to remember that in Crowfall (like in Shadowbane) player actions have impact on the world and can have dramatic consequences for other players. The resentment that builds up between rival guilds or conflicting personalities can spill over into forums and can be quite vicious at times. Both sides feel justified, of course, citing some slight or loss to justify their behavior. The communities I've been do their best to stay away from that kind of useless posturing, but many others probably won't be able to restrain themselves. 

 

It's all part of the game. 


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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Aww shucks :wub:

 

 

I think.. if I'm toootally honest theres a generational thing going on here.

 

Yes and no....

 

Like decades ago I don't think players had many sites to go - many games to play. There was probably one or two places they would hang. One big game they would subscribe to for ages...

 

While this is true, ever since about 2001 game news has been pretty easy to find on the internet, if you simply looked.  So while there are people that were very loyal to one or two games or places and never explored elsewhere, which is totally fine, they should do what they enjoy, they still should not assume their singular point of view is representative of the bigger picture.  I love games, I think at top competitive levels they test the human mind in ways most other activities couldn't dream of, so I myself have always wanted to understand what was going on in the industry, what games were out there, etc, and I think it's always important to understand the context of one's hobbies. 

 

Nowadays we get everything everywhere.. so many games - so many social mediums. Half the time I'm online gaming I still have skype on or I'm texting friends or doing something.. I have 80 games in myt steam closet..most of which I never played. There's not enough time to do everything I want to do and there are maybe 10 or 15 games I'm curious about right now... Just CF is tickling my fancy at this particular moment.

Its gotta stay worth the effort or I move on.. something else will overtake it. I think I'm probably pretty representative of the "great unwashed" audience of gamers... rather than some hardcore PvPer or anything.

 

To be honest most gamers that kind of have the approach you have as far as their general activities will find games like crowfall closer to when it launches or when it launches, they'll find it through something like twitch.tv and if it looks good or some popular streamer streams it they might get involved.  What constitutes a hardcore pvper always fluctuates, but often times people that think they are hardcore (for example really toxic veteran gamers) are really just super bitter outdated players who couldn't adapt to modern games with higher skill-ceilings.  I myself am an older gamer, it's always fascinated me the progression that games have taken, and it's always fun to see if you can keep up with the younger crowd.  I personally don't see how any competitive pvper could shy away from such challenges and go hide in tiny games and pretend they are somehow hardcore pvpers. 

 

Point is: I think thats my generation. I think younger (late-millennials?) players will go to the place that's MOST interesting, rather than the *cough* more mature crowd who will go to the *only* place that's interesting... So many players seem to say "OMG Crowfall is like my last chance in mmos" or "OMG Shadowbane was the only game for me" or.. well you know..like serious?

As if there weren't 4 million other different ways to find fun online or a nice social community.

 

Some of this is small pond syndrome... people find a setting or game they can survive in and to them they want another game that is just like that so they can find success.  They don't want to adapt to a more competitive setting where they won't find as much success.  As a competitive pvper watching people behave this way is not true pvp spirit to me so it always kinda seems silly to me when those same people try to shape the game to always be like whatever old game they played. 

 

And that last part: Community.. that trumps everything. Even if a game turns into same-old same-old. Even if it struggle at the edge of ruin. Even if it never reaches its full potential...  if the community is awesome you can stick it for years.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Nowadays we get everything everywhere.. so many games - so many social mediums. Half the time I'm online gaming I still have skype on or I'm texting friends or doing something.. I have 80 games in myt steam closet..most of which I never played. There's not enough time to do everything I want to do and there are maybe 10 or 15 games I'm curious about right now... Just CF is tickling my fancy at this particular moment.

Its gotta stay worth the effort or I move on.. something else will overtake it. I think I'm probably pretty representative of the "great unwashed" audience of gamers... rather than some hardcore PvPer or anything.

 

Point is: I think thats my generation. I think younger (late-millennials?) players will go to the place that's MOST interesting, rather than the *cough* more mature crowd who will go to the *only* place that's interesting... So many players seem to say "OMG Crowfall is like my last chance in mmos" or "OMG Shadowbane was the only game for me" or.. well you know..like serious?

As if there weren't 4 million other different ways to find fun online or a nice social community.

 

 

 

Your posting style reminds me of Doc Gonzo! :D

 

To your point, I can only speak for my own experience. I've played almost every major MMO which has come out in the last ten years, and most of them were so similar to each other that I felt as though I was engaging in the same repetitive experience over and over again. There's only so many times a raid encounter or a battleground can be fun for me before it becomes another job. The spontaneity and uncertainty of Crowfall is, in my mind, it's most promising feature. Instead of spawning into the same few battlegrounds or arenas over and over again, you're venturing out into a large open world where you don't know if an enemy group could be waiting over the next hill. Even as you move to engage the enemy, another force could waiting in the trees hoping to wipe both of you out when you're weakened. 


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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Point is: I think thats my generation. I think younger (late-millennials?) players will go to the place that's MOST interesting, rather than the *cough* more mature crowd who will go to the *only* place that's interesting... So many players seem to say "OMG Crowfall is like my last chance in mmos" or "OMG Shadowbane was the only game for me" or.. well you know..like serious?

As if there weren't 4 million other different ways to find fun online or a nice social community.

I don't think there's much truth to this idea, really. In fact, to me it appears to essentially be a thinly veiled ad hominem aimed at players over the age of puberty.

 

Everyone wants to play the *cough* MOST interesting game. Young players aren't special snowflakes. Neither are older players.

 

And with regard to Shadowbane, I get you don't understand it. That was the point of your thread. Judgemental aspersions cast at a game you never played (or those who played it, more specifically) are more likely a sign of your lack of experience than the merits of that game or those posters.

 

That's my .02.

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Your posting style reminds me of Doc Gonzo! :D

 

To your point, I can only speak for my own experience. I've played almost every major MMO which has come out in the last ten years, and most of them were so similar to each other that I felt as though I was engaging in the same repetitive experience over and over again. There's only so many times a raid encounter or a battleground can be fun for me before it becomes another job. The spontaneity and uncertainty of Crowfall is, in my mind, it's most promising feature. Instead of spawning into the same few battlegrounds or arenas over and over again, you're venturing out into a large open world where you don't know if an enemy group could be waiting over the next hill. Even as you move to engage the enemy, another force could waiting in the trees hoping to wipe both of you out when you're weakened. 

That's one of the many fundamental failures of VN's constant nonsense.

 

Where does this guy get the idea SB players didn't play many, many games after SB? I'd be shocked if he's played as many games as you have or as I have, for example. That, having played all of those games ,we find them lacking and empty after experiencing a game with the features we are looking to in CF certainly isn't a sign of a myopic view of the gaming options available.

 

edit: short answer ... what if the SB players are right? I say we are.

 

Try CF at launch and you may agree. You may not. Regardless, we're getting the things we want here. This isn't some mysterious issue. The basic SB systems are being done here, and hopefully better in many respects.

Edited by coolwaters

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I don't think any of the posts in this forum have been 'toxic'. There's people being passionate about their viewpoint on what CF could be or should not be.This is natural and should be encouraged.

 

I've never played SB so I can't comment. But like many other backers I was attracted to this game by the many possibilities it could offer in guild v guild conflict.  Not just on the battlefield and campaigns with the combat system but also in the area of guild politics and economics, as well as the awesome changes that players can make to the world.

 

I keep mentioning Travian, and although this is a simple browser game the main guild v guild interactions are actually outside of the game; in the forums and via Skype. There is a whole meta game outside the browser. CF has the potential for making this interaction even better within the game context.

 

So it begins .....


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That's one of the many fundamental failures of VN's constant nonsense.

 

Where does this guy get the idea SB players didn't play many, many games after SB? I'd be shocked if he's played as many games as you have or as I have, for example. That, having played all of those games ,we find them lacking and empty after experiencing a game with the features we are looking to in CF certainly isn't a sign of a myopic view of the gaming options available.

It's evident by the views and input being shared by many of the SB loyalists that they have very little experience and success with modern games.  It is evident when they try to criticize games and they make all these assertions about the games that simply do not match up with the games.  If they had had success in modern games their views would be significantly different.

 

Too many small pond gamers just want to claim every game they can't do well in suck and just go hide in the pond forever.  Gaming has evolved, it takes much more skill now and is much more populated with competition, if you actually go play populated games.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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It's evident by the views and input being shared by many of the SB loyalists that they have very little experience and success with modern games.  It is evident when they try to criticize games and they make all these assertions about the games that simply do not match up with the games.  If they had had success in modern games their views would be significantly different.

 

Too many small pond gamers just want to claim every game they can't do well in suck and just go hide in the pond forever.  Gaming has evolved, it takes much more skill now and is much more populated with competition, if you actually go play populated games.

What exactly do you define as "Success"? Back in my Warhammer online days, I got recognized by the top guild on my server. They asked many times if I would run with them.  I would define that as success. Your success is not my success. You haven't made any money off any of your gaming days, if you had you would be bragging and post about it. Don't try and say you wouldn't. Your posts are nothing, but about your ego. Success to me is different than success to you.  

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I don't think there's much truth to this idea, really. In fact, to me it appears to essentially be a thinly veiled ad hominem aimed at players over the age of puberty.

 

Everyone wants to play the *cough* MOST interesting game. Young players aren't special snowflakes. Neither are older players.

 

And with regard to Shadowbane, I get you don't understand it. That was the point of your thread. Judgemental aspersions cast at a game you never played (or those who played it, more specifically) are more likely a sign of your lack of experience than the merits of that game or those posters.

 

That's my .02.

 And I think you're a Mr Grumpy Gills

 

We should totally duel. See?

 

You're absolutely right that towards a lot of prior history Im totally in the dark... and really I didn't m,ean to be dismissive of older players.. My dad is totally one of them :P I sat on his lap and played world of warcraft with him when I was like 8. I didnt understand crap but - I loved it and its the reason I'm a gamer today. I don't need to understand stuff to love it :P

 

And also I love mature gamers.. players who have been everywhere and seen everything. I'm totally happy to follow an experienced player or group of players  around like a puppy on a leash and learn what they love about a game. Sometimes we learn to love things through other peoples enthusiasm. I find older gamers don't jump around so much from thing to thing.. That can be really great.

 

The reason I asked about Shadowbane was because of my experiences in Shroud of the Avatar - where there was so much drama over whether it was going to be the next Ultima. And no - of course it wasn't and could never be. But the level of noise about it was alarming - and I admit it has been a bit scary to see the same kind of thing repeated here with Shadowbane. 

 

But I get from this thread that although people are passionate they're not mental - so I'm not worried so much now. I'm still keeping an eye out for the symptoms though - if you know what I mean?

 

I don't have any puppies in the dog fight though - so I'm sorry if it seemed like I had ulterior motives.

I'm just here to cheerlead the community honestly.

 

Edit: I want to add - my thing is Roleplay. That should be really obvious. I'm here to do RP as much as I can and find friends to do it with. The PvP thing is just a bonus. 

Edited by Deloria

www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

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What exactly do you define as "Success"? Back in my Warhammer online days, I got recognized by the top guild on my server. They asked many times if I would run with them.  I would define that as success. Your success is not my success. You haven't made any money off any of your gaming days, if you had you would be bragging and post about it. Don't try and say you wouldn't. Your posts are nothing, but about your ego. Success to me is different than success to you.  

I've actually made quite a bit of money off of my gaming but thanks for your silly assumptions.

 

Sorry but to gamers like me finding success on some server in warhammer online means very little as far as accolades go.  Try finding success in games where millions compete across all servers.  Then you've done something noteworthy.  Warhammer like shadowbane, was a flop.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I've actually made quite a bit of money off of my gaming but thanks for your silly assumptions.

 

Sorry but to gamers like me finding success on some server in warhammer online means very little as far as accolades go.  Try finding success in games where millions compete across all servers.  Then you've done something noteworthy.  Warhammer like shadowbane, was a flop.

So, my success has to be in line with you how you see success? You do realize, that is not quite how that works... Warhammer succeeded in many things. Those things, you see in many modern mmos now. That sure sounds like success too. 

 

I should have known better to call you out on your shenangians as you never want to provide proof to back up any of your claims.

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So, my success has to be in line with you how you see success? You do realize, that is not quite how that works... Warhammer succeeded in many things. Those things, you see in many modern mmos now. That sure sounds like success too. 

 

I should have known better to call you out on your shenangians as you never want to provide proof to back up any of your claims.

It doesn't have to be in line with my success.  It's just that my definition of success is based on what competitive gaming has evolved to, not small pond games with small competitive communities.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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 And I think you're a Mr Grumpy Gills

 

We should totally duel. See?

 

You're absolutely right that towards a lot of prior history Im totally in the dark... and really I didn't m,ean to be dismissive of older players.. My dad is totally one of them :P I sat on his lap and played world of warcraft with him when I was like 8. I didnt understand crap but - I loved it and its the reason I'm a gamer today. I don't need to understand stuff to love it :P

 

And also I love mature gamers.. players who have been everywhere and seen everything. I'm totally happy to follow an experienced player or group of players  around like a puppy on a leash and learn what they love about a game. Sometimes we learn to love things through other peoples enthusiasm. I find older gamers don't jump around so much from thing to thing.. That can be really great.

 

The reason I asked about Shadowbane was because of my experiences in Shroud of the Avatar - where there was so much drama over whether it was going to be the next Ultima. And no - of course it wasn't and could never be. But the level of noise about it was alarming - and I admit it has been a bit scary to see the same kind of thing repeated here with Shadowbane. 

 

But I get from this thread that although people are passionate they're not mental - so I'm not worried so much now. I'm still keeping an eye out for the symptoms though - if you know what I mean?

 

I don't have any puppies in the dog fight though - so I'm sorry if it seemed like I had ulterior motives.

I'm just here to cheerlead the community honestly.

 

Edit: I want to add - my thing is Roleplay. That should be really obvious. I'm here to do RP as much as I can and find friends to do it with. The PvP thing is just a bonus. 

I don't mean anything rude towards you, at all.

 

That said, portions of your posts in this thread come off to me as insulting towards those you direct the thread to. That's how I read it. No hard feelings at all. I'm sure you're a great guy. In fact, if you like RP I suspect you'd have loved a few of the SB servers back in the day.

 

The fact that VN has attempted to adopt you doesn't help my view I'm sure. :P

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I don't mean anything rude towards you, at all.

 

That said, portions of your posts in this thread come off to me as insulting towards those you direct the thread to. That's how I read it. No hard feelings at all. I'm sure you're a great guy. In fact, if you like RP I suspect you'd have loved a few of the SB servers back in the day.

 

The fact that VN has attempted to adopt you doesn't help my view I'm sure. :P

Omg sally can't like cindy because sally's friend jenny is mad at cindy.  It's like so what if I can have an intelligent conversation with deloria because they make intelligent posts.  That doesn't automatically mean your opinions towards deloria should be colored by that.  That's some high-school mentality mindset.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I LIKE PIE!

 

With real, authentic, Vanilla Bean Ice Cream.  

 

And maybe a small dash of Brandy.

 

With a Cherry.

 

No whipped cream though.

 

:D


“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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All I am doing is sharing a sentiment that JTC himself shared about shadowbane.

 

The game hemorrhaged players... it was not some magical narnia greatest mmo ever like some people make it out to be. 

 

It was a buggy mess, unplayable by industry standards, and nostalgia can often cloud reality.

 

 

This is true.

 

But you missed all the fun.


The best skill at cards is knowing when to discard.
 

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