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Deloria

Shadowbane... please explain it to me like I'm 5.

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I would hope that the players that played Shadowbane do not exist in a vacuum and continue to both play and enjoy games up until 2016.

 

I also agree that their was a toxic element to Shadowbane that should not be overlooked.

 

With that being said, the people that I see in this thread that disagree with you are responding as clarification of opinion rather than just blanket statements that should be accepted as proof. People can like both peanut butter and jelly, they do not have to pick just one.

 

As with most types of internet interaction, it is hard to convey emotion in text.

Most shadowbane players moved on to other games... the ones that didn't basically identify themselves as primarily shadowbane players and usually perpetuate a certain rhetoric.  It's the ones perpetuating that rhetoric that I generally refer to with skepticism about their experience.  Not just any person that ever played shadowbane ever, because like I said, most players that played shadowbane moved on to bigger things, they've got the modern experience.

 

I don't mind responding with clarification of opinion, but I personally don't think calling people stupid just because they have a different opinion, or insinuating that the OP might be coming from an inferior place because they can converse with someone like me really contributes anything meaningful to the thread. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Most shadowbane players moved on to other games... the ones that didn't basically identify themselves as primarily shadowbane players and usually perpetuate a certain rhetoric.  It's the ones perpetuating that rhetoric that I generally refer to with skepticism about their experience.  Not just any person that ever played shadowbane ever, because like I said, most players that played shadowbane moved on to bigger things, they've got the modern experience.

 

I don't mind responding with clarification of opinion, but I personally don't think calling people stupid just because they have a different opinion, or insinuating that the OP might be coming from an inferior place because they can converse with someone like me really contributes anything meaningful to the thread. 

Isn't that what you have been doing to the SB players? Lol...

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Isn't that what you have been doing to the SB players? Lol...

It's not really the same thing.  In the example I was sharing, a user was holding the OPs ability to converse with me in an intelligent manner against the OP.  Kind of like a high-schooler might hate another high-schooler for hanging out with someone they don't like.

 

In regards to SB players, it's all case by case, but there are certain correlations you can observe.  Generally people who are sheltered from modern games don't really understand the modern gaming landscape.  Generally those that are unable to move on from a small pond would rather try to make other ponds like their own, instead of trying to adapt to a bigger pond.  These are pretty obvious concepts.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I think that VN is right that combat is important but..... I also think that it is ok for anybody that stuck through the bugginess of Shadowbane and were able to get enjoyment out of it.

 

At the end of the day video games are a form of entertainment and if you are able to enjoy the games you choose to play then good for you.

I'm fairly sure VN's point isn't that "combat is important."  That's actually the point or concession everyone else in the thread has clearly made many times.

 

VN's "point" is that the single vital feature this game can't live without, under any circumstances, is ... drumroll ... not combat, but action combat. Not just "action combat," but amazing "action combat." God knows what he even means by that, but it certainly isn't any form of Tab targeting  nor what we have now, so I guess he'll leave after launch just like he did with SB when he couldn't hack it.

 

And you're right that what we have now is probably close to what he's going to get if he decides to stick around, whether he likes it or not.  And he's going to get it in a game that does its best to copy SB's important systems and improve (hopefully) on them.

Edited by coolwaters

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I'm fairly sure VN's point isn't that "combat is important."  That's actually the point or concession everyone else in the thread has clearly made many times.

 

VN's "point" is that the single vital feature this game can't live without, under any circumstances, is ... drumroll ... not combat, but action combat. Not just "action combat," but amazing "action combat." God knows what he even means by that, but it certainly isn't any form of Tab targeting  nor what we have now, so I guess he'll leave after launch just like he did with SB when he couldn't hack it.

 

And you're right that what we have now is probably close to what he's going to get if he decides to stick around, whether he likes it or not.  And he's going to get it in a game that does its best to copy SB's important systems and improve (hopefully) on them.

See general77, you can use this poster as a good example of what I am talking about. 

 

This user misrepresents my point of view from the getgo, and then also tries to dilute the point of contention.  It is not only that combat is important, it is literally the most important feature as stated by ACE themselves.  By wording it the way he does he is claiming that he is willing to accept that combat is important, but he will not admit that ACE views it as the MOST important. 

 

I'd also like to clarify that when he tries to claim I couldn't "hack it" in shadowbane that is just a negative narrative not based in reality at all that he convinces himself of to discredit me in his own mind.  (I was actually undefeated in shadowbane up until the point where over 50% of the release population left a few months into the game because people were tired of playing a game that crashed every 10 minutes and even more frequently than that in big battles)...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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See general77, you can use this poster as a good example of what I am talking about. 

 

This user misrepresents my point of view from the getgo, and then also tries to dilute the point of contention.  It is not only that combat is important, it is literally the most important feature as stated by ACE themselves.  By wording it the way he does he is claiming that he is willing to accept that combat is important, but he will not admit that ACE views it as the MOST important. 

 

I'd also like to clarify that when he tries to claim I couldn't "hack it" in shadowbane that is just a negative narrative not based in reality at all that he convinces himself of to discredit me in his own mind.  (I was actually undefeated in shadowbane up until the point where over 50% of the release population left a few months into the game because people were tired of playing a game that crashed every 10 minutes and even more frequently than that in big battles).

 

 

Trolololololol

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VN's "point" is that the single vital feature this game can't live without, under any circumstances, is ... drumroll ... not combat, but action combat. Not just "action combat," but amazing "action combat." God knows what he even means by that, but it certainly isn't any form of Tab targeting  nor what we have now, so I guess he'll leave after launch just like he did with SB when he couldn't hack it.

 

Nailed it!

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See general77, you can use this poster as a good example of what I am talking about. 

 

This user misrepresents my point of view from the getgo, 

 

Ya? This was my "misrepresentation" of your "point:"

 

 

VN's "point" is that the single vital feature this game can't live without, under any circumstances, is ... drumroll ... not combat, but action combat. Not just "action combat," but amazing "action combat."

 

And this was your actual "point:"

 

 

 

It's not my vision, it's JTCs...

 

And his vision is a game that has action combat at the heart of it, as the most important feature. 

You can imagine whatever you want, but the vision is still the vision and your imagination is still your imagination.

 

My bad?

 

Na. I was pretty spot on, wasn't I?

Edited by coolwaters

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Ya? This was my "misrepresentation" of your "point:"

 

 

And this was your actual "point:"

 

 

My bad?

 

Na. I was pretty spot on, wasn't I?

Nope... My point was that according to ACE action combat is the most important feature of the game.  This is because they have stated combat is the most important feature of the game, and they have chosen action combat to represent combat, which is what they view as the most important feature of the game.

 

You can either accept that or you can't.

 

It's kind of weird how you quote yourself and then you quote me, and yet you somehow think both quotes say the same thing, when they clearly do not. 

 

Your quote is indicative of me thinking the game needs good action combat to survive.  The second quote is indicative of conveying that people need to accept ACE's view on how important combat is to them and has nothing to do with my own views personally.

 

Not really the same points at all. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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VN actually believes that this game could ship as soon as the combat is finished. He thinks that ACE could offer some sort of matched based gameplay (like the Hunger Dome and Siege Perilous) and players will be fine with that. He thinks that people aren't really attracted to Crowfall because of the strategic or sandbox elements, and that its really just the combat alone that attracts most people.

 

The reality is that combat is a necessary, but not sufficient condition for Crowfall's vision. You can either accept that or you can't.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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VN actually believes that this game could ship as soon as the combat is finished. He thinks that ACE could offer some sort of matched based gameplay (like the Hunger Dome and Siege Perilous) and players will be fine with that. He thinks that people aren't really attracted to Crowfall because of the strategic or sandbox elements, and that its really just the combat alone that attracts most people.

 

The reality is that combat is a necessary, but not sufficient condition for Crowfall's vision. You can either accept that or you can't.

This actually isn't at all what I believe, but it's nice seeing another player from a certain background game completely conjuring up nonsensical beliefs for me. 

 

But hey if you'd like to back that claim up with any quotes from me where I ever said the game could ship with some sort of matchbased gameplay like hunger dome or siege perilous, go ahead and prove me wrong.  Too bad such a quote has never come close to existing.  It's actually humorous because I constantly make it a point that the game should avoid instanced pvp at all costs and should go back to the old school emphasis on open world pvp.

 

What I've actually said is that without good combat this game will fail.  It doesn't really matter how the other proposed features hold up, if the combat sucks it will not be considered a good pvp game and will not attract most modern pvpers.  And that's pretty much a no brainer.

 

Combat is literally the most important feature in the game, and I am glad ACE seems to believe that as well.  You can accept my actual beliefs, or you can just make up imaginary ones some more.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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The way that I interpret the exchange is:

 

Viking is right that combat should be both important and executed well

 

Coolwaters is right that the reprecussions of said battle and how it effects the world also be executed well.

 

Both will need to work to make the game unique and keep the different playerbases interested

 

Battle without meaning eventually loses flavor but long term consequences could be remembered for years

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This actually isn't at all what I believe, but it's nice seeing another player from a certain background game completely conjuring up nonsensical beliefs for me. 

 

But hey if you'd like to back that claim up with any quotes from me where I ever said the game could ship with some sort of matchbased gameplay like hunger dome or siege perilous, go ahead and prove me wrong.  Too bad such a quote has never come close to existing.  It's actually humorous because I constantly make it a point that the game should avoid instanced pvp at all costs and should go back to the old school emphasis on open world pvp.

 

What I've actually said is that without good combat this game will fail.  It doesn't really matter how the other proposed features hold up, if the combat sucks it will not be considered a good pvp game and will not attract most modern pvpers.  And that's pretty much a no brainer.

 

Combat is literally the most important feature in the game, and I am glad ACE seems to believe that as well.  You can accept my actual beliefs, or you can just make up imaginary ones some more.

 

Re-read the thread bud, you're implying exactly what I said your position is. Hell, you're even implying it in your post.

 

It's also laughable to me that you're complaining about being misrepresented when that's exactly what you've done to others in this thread. Whenever someone says something you disagree with, you ignore their points and restate your premise like some sort of pre-programmed bot. You also need to put what ACE has says regarding the importance of combat in context with all the other things they've said about the game, as well as their general vision for the game. You're willfully engaging in context denial, while misrepresenting what everyone else has said as part of some SB player plot against action combat.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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Re-read the thread bud, you're implying exactly what I said your position is. Hell, you're even implying it in your post.

 

It's also laughable to me that you're complaining about being misrepresented when that's exactly what you've done to others in this thread. Whenever someone says something you disagree with, you ignore their points and restate your premise like some sort of pre-programmed bot. You also need to put what ACE has says regarding the importance of combat in context with all the other things they've said about the game, as well as their general vision for the game. You're willfully engaging in context denial, while misrepresenting what everyone else has said as part of some SB player plot against action combat.

You can look at this page alone to see certain people from certain backgrounds misrepresenting things...

 

Go ahead and quote me implying what you claim my position is.  You simply would not be able to come up with proper quotes.  Sorry...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I really do not know what undefeated in Shadowbane means VN? You could claim to have not been killed while scouting or solo ganking players distracted by grinding mobs, kudos, sort of... Or you were underfeated in taking down enemy cities while not losting your own? I chuckled cuz I thought you claimed thnat you never got pk'd... Must not have played the same shadowbane I played because everybody got ganked at one point or another and THAT is what drove the most entertaining drama on the SB boards.

 

Great combat is super important, sure, but not without an emotional stake in the fight. Nobody here wants arena style combat with ranking being the motivation, we want STUFF to fight over. Would you not admit that the stuff we fight over, how we acquire it and how far we have to move it and what gear we need to protect it and what mix of skills we need to optimize our resource runs and what intel we can glean about other guilds plans and how we are going to best gear out our peeps is equaly paramount? or rather how the game system lets us accomplish these things and how the user interface facilitates a hell of a lot more than buttons to mash?

 

OK, I get you can be a great asset on the front lines, but Crowfall, like Shadowbane or my more recent experiences in Archeage requires a guild with a diverse set of skills, combat skill above all, but tactics and strategic advantage, logistics and leadership, tinkering with crafting. Twitch and smash key to glory VN, and revel in your leetness, the rest of us have a game to support that will have all of this because of the experience we share with ACE, some of which was in Shadowbane.

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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