Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Naur

"Skill" in Crowfall - what's important ?

  

47 members have voted

  1. 1. Skill equals =

    • Time Played
      2
    • Decision Making Speed
      17
    • Mechanical Skill
      7
    • Knowledge About Game
      15
    • Logistic Supply
      4
    • Social Skill
      2
  2. 2. Second most important =

    • Time Played
      1
    • Decision Making Speed
      15
    • Mechanical Skill
      6
    • Knowledge About Game
      16
    • Logistic Supply
      5
    • Social Skill
      4


Recommended Posts

I agree with this to a certain extent.The better players will gravitate to the better guilds. Everyone likes being on the winning side.

 

But using a sporting analogy. The English national football team consistently under performs even though they have the best talent and have one of the most competitive football leagues in Europe. The highly skilled players do not seem to be able to make that skill work in a team of equally skilled players. Whereas they shine at club level when they have a number of lesser skilled players supporting them. And at European national level it is the teams that demonstrate good team working rather than individual skill usually wins.

The deal here is that no matter how much skill you have in professional soccer, it is never so much greater than another great squad that they don't have a decent chance of winning. 

 

If you look towards the world cup you can see what happens when the skill disparity is too great.  A good example would be Germany vs Brazil in the last world cup.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Technically speaking, anything is a skill, but in a more practical sense, mechanical control and tactical deliberation are the crux of combat skill.

 

Things like effort contributed, studying and plans laid fall under preparation and education, they don't really dictate combat performance unless mechanical difficulty is trivialized, or strategic and tactical method is unreasonably complex.

 

The challenge of a good MMO is to include a balance part of as many types of skill as possible to create the greatest depth. Given that MMOs are intended to last indefinitely, you want it to be as complex as possible without becoming unengagable.

 

With priority resting on mechanical skill, at least for an action MMO, each feature should be developed enough to where it could be the deciding factor in a battle, that way engaging all those methods are worthwhile, even if they aren't primary.

 

Personally, I think tactics should take priority, but be simple enough for anyone to engage unless a player comes up with a truly ingenious trick, or if a skilled operater decides to be terribly stubborn and ignore tactics.

 

Operation, tactics and battle strategy are the things that are actively performed on the battlefield, if you over weigh progression, and preparation, than you have battles which are decided before they begin.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with this to a certain extent.The better players will gravitate to the better guilds. Everyone likes being on the winning side.

 

But using a sporting analogy. The English national football team consistently under performs even though they have the best talent and have one of the most competitive football leagues in Europe. The highly skilled players do not seem to be able to make that skill work in a team of equally skilled players. Whereas they shine at club level when they have a number of lesser skilled players supporting them. And at European national level it is the teams that demonstrate good team working rather than individual skill usually wins.

Same holds true for most pro sports and teams. Here in the states American football the NFL, the best teams usually are not the ones that simply blew through their budgets and buy up the best players. Nope, its the teams that have a few good to great players and they learn to work as a team and support each other.

 

So as it relates to Crowfall a team based video game, I think the best guilds and groups will be those who utilize members with various degrees and types of skills, not just those that are deemed the outright best in only one or two category's of skill.

Edited by pang

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, VN with his constant warnings that Crowfall is doomed if they don't do combat to his preference. This should be preserved as a running gag :'D


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same holds true for most pro sports and teams. Here in the states American football the NFL, the best teams usually are not the ones that simply blew through their budgets and buy up the best players. Nope, its the teams that have a few good to great players and they learn to work as a team and support each other.

 

So as it relates to Crowfall a team based video game, I think the best guilds and groups will be those who utilize members with various degrees and types of skills, not just those that are deemed the outright best in only one or two category's of skill.

American football has a salary cap so the amount of great players they can have is limited.  But you can always see the best teams have quite a few pro bowlers... so yea not the greatest analogy.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

American football has a salary cap so the amount of great players they can have is limited.  But you can always see the best teams have quite a few pro bowlers... so yea not the greatest analogy.

Teams still try and fail though was the point. Look at the Eagles a few years ago, the self proclaimed "Dream Team" they didn't even make the playoffs. The Washington Redskins tried buying up all the big name talent few years ago and they made the playoffs few times but 1st round loses.

 

The teams that have a combination of good and great players, as well as less skilled role players and great team chemistry are the ones that are consistently the "best". I mean look at the Patriots, besides Brady and Gronkowski the rest of the team is pretty much ok to average players and yet they are always in the discussion for championships and have won several already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

The teams that have a combination of good and great players, as well as less skilled role players and great team chemistry are the ones that are consistently the "best". I mean look at the Patriots, besides Brady and Gronkowski the rest of the team is pretty much ok to average players and yet they are always in the discussion for championships and have won several already.

 

Yeah, but they cheat.  Hey, wait a second... maybe this is a better analogy than I originally thought. ^_^


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, but they cheat.  Hey, wait a second... maybe this is a better analogy than I originally thought. ^_^

and they don't even need to cheat is the stupid thing lol.

 

But yeah NFL training camp started today so the football analogies were pretty much automatic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same holds true for most pro sports and teams. Here in the states American football the NFL, the best teams usually are not the ones that simply blew through their budgets and buy up the best players. Nope, its the teams that have a few good to great players and they learn to work as a team and support each other.

 

So as it relates to Crowfall a team based video game, I think the best guilds and groups will be those who utilize members with various degrees and types of skills, not just those that are deemed the outright best in only one or two category's of skill.

 

This is so  true.  The  best teams do  not have the best players at all positions,,  this is true of real sports and Esports. -- The best teams are ones that understand their  strengths and weakness ,  have good leadership to best use and avoid them,,  and also  the players that buy  into  the team first mentality. Even top  level pro-gaming teams constantly  shuffle lineups,  not solely  on  mechanical  skill but because that "it factor" of teamwork hasn't  gelled with the current roster.

 

When  it  comes to warfare in a game,  K/D/A does not determine who's better, because when sieging  a keep, sometime you  just gotta throw  bodies at people.

I've  played with many  people  who were not  mechanically  good at a  game and in  small  combat it's  quite apparent, but in  large battles, they  do just fine and are where they  are supposed to be. Some people will be fodder but it's like I always say" " I  dont care if my  friends are bad at fighting,  it's  still one less  guy hitting  me during  the brawl."

 

Even though  I  do  value mechanical  skill  very  much,  I  still  think  knowledge about the game is utmost,,  with  decision making (and planning)  second. Everything  else falls into  place when mechanical skill can  at least hold it's own at that point. (For this type of game)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is so  true.  The  best teams do  not have the best players at all positions,,  this is true of real sports and Esports. -- The best teams are ones that understand their  strengths and weakness ,  have good leadership to best use and avoid them,,  and also  the players that buy  into  the team first mentality. Even top  level pro-gaming teams constantly  shuffle lineups,  not solely  on  mechanical  skill but because that "it factor" of teamwork hasn't  gelled with the current roster.

 

They literally can't have the best players at all positions because of an imposed salary cap.  This also definitely isn't true of esports.  The best progaming teams actually rarely shuffle their lineup and guess what?  When they do it is usually to upgrade someone mechanically, not downgrade.  Sorry sports and esports aren't after school specials, they don't operate the way you seem to think they do.

 

When  it  comes to warfare in a game,  K/D/A does not determine who's better, because when sieging  a keep, sometime you  just gotta throw  bodies at people.

I've  played with many  people  who were not  mechanically  good at a  game and in  small  combat it's  quite apparent, but in  large battles, they  do just fine and are where they  are supposed to be. Some people will be fodder but it's like I always say" " I  dont care if my  friends are bad at fighting,  it's  still one less  guy hitting  me during  the brawl."

 

I just play with people that are good in all aspects of a game and we just dominate and that's that. 

 

Even though  I  do  value mechanical  skill  very  much,  I  still  think  knowledge about the game is utmost,,  with  decision making (and planning)  second. Everything  else falls into  place when mechanical skill can  at least hold it's own at that point. (For this type of game)

 

This simply does not hold true at the top level of play, where you must have very high mechanical skill by default to even compete. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Vikingnail

 

I agree with Orinturi.  Teamwork isn't a new concept in warfare, though the Internet is.

 

Assuming the game isn't structured to circumvent player action/decision/skill, Teamwork can in fact overcome numbers and superior (individual) mechanical skill, and/or shore up those with less mechanical skill to leverage what they have to offer.

 

The scenario / environment plays a pretty big role here of course.  "Top level of play . . ." would have to be evaluated on a case by case basis IMO, game to game, and how it's structured to work, and what environments/scenarios it is presenting to players.

 

Successful Teamwork is great, not the least of which is a great intro-training ground to newbs in a game.

Edited by Bramble

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO, decision making and knowledge about the game should be tightly put together. I think a good player is someone who can react quickly to any situation, because he knows the game and its mechanics.

 

The second most important should be the logistic side, as campaign rules will have a heavy weight in the balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

This is so  true.  The  best teams do  not have the best players at all positions,,  this is true of real sports and Esports. -- The best teams are ones that understand their  strengths and weakness ,  have good leadership to best use and avoid them,,  and also  the players that buy  into  the team first mentality. Even top  level pro-gaming teams constantly  shuffle lineups,  not solely  on  mechanical  skill but because that "it factor" of teamwork hasn't  gelled with the current roster.

 

They literally can't have the best players at all positions because of an imposed salary cap.  This also definitely isn't true of esports.  The best progaming teams actually rarely shuffle their lineup and guess what?  When they do it is usually to upgrade someone mechanically, not downgrade.  Sorry sports and esports aren't after school specials, they don't operate the way you seem to think they do.

 

When  it  comes to warfare in a game,  K/D/A does not determine who's better, because when sieging  a keep, sometime you  just gotta throw  bodies at people.

I've  played with many  people  who were not  mechanically  good at a  game and in  small  combat it's  quite apparent, but in  large battles, they  do just fine and are where they  are supposed to be. Some people will be fodder but it's like I always say" " I  dont care if my  friends are bad at fighting,  it's  still one less  guy hitting  me during  the brawl."

 

I just play with people that are good in all aspects of a game and we just dominate and that's that. 

 

Even though  I  do  value mechanical  skill  very  much,  I  still  think  knowledge about the game is utmost,,  with  decision making (and planning)  second. Everything  else falls into  place when mechanical skill can  at least hold it's own at that point. (For this type of game)

 

This simply does not hold true at the top level of play, where you must have very high mechanical skill by default to even compete. 

 

 

So i guess all the League players that jump from team to team were replaced by mechanically better players? I think it was Froggen who even said he tried to get the mechanically best players and it didn't work. Might have been Reggie but it was a video that Riot even posted.

 

There was a pre-salary cap era in football, unless you're not old enough to remember that, and you know what... the same teams didn't always win and teams that had much more talent then their opponent still lost.

 

And please,, do  you  have to  respond to every post stating how great you and  these invisible people you  play with are? Seriously,, if you were that great you  wouldn't need to say it. We'd know who you were by  gaming reputation alone. Not every thread needs to get hijacked with I'm VN.. I'm awesome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So i guess all the League players that jump from team to team were replaced by mechanically better players? I think it was Froggen who even said he tried to get the mechanically best players and it didn't work. Might have been Reggie but it was a video that Riot even posted.

 

Fun fact, neither froggen or reginald are mechanically ery good

 

There was a pre-salary cap era in football, unless you're not old enough to remember that, and you know what... the same teams didn't always win and teams that had much more talent then their opponent still lost.

 

Yea you are right I don't remember the dallas cowboys of the 90s :rolls eyes:  guess why they changed the rules? 

 

And please,, do  you  have to  respond to every post stating how great you and  these invisible people you  play with are? Seriously,, if you were that great you  wouldn't need to say it. We'd know who you were by  gaming reputation alone. Not every thread needs to get hijacked with I'm VN.. I'm awesome.

 

Small pond syndrome here. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Fun fact, neither froggen or reginald are mechanically ery good

 

I didn't say they were good,, i said they recruited the best mechanically good players and admitted it didn't work out for the team for championships.

 

Yea you are right I don't remember the dallas cowboys of the 90s :rolls eyes:  guess why they changed the rules? 

 

Yes I remember the Cowboys didn't win all their games and didn't win every Superbowl. The rules were changed so small-market cities could compete with the big cities.

1) The talent gap was that great for a "group" of cities-- difference between better talent and way better talent.

2) Small market cities didn't have the revenue to compete with the larger cities so they provided a cap

3)You also had owners for the Bucs who purposely put out bad rosters because he ran it to make a  profit by  drafting good players only to trade them away. So the NFL also instilled a floor to  the salary cap to prevent this.

 

Small Pond syndrome.

 

Maybe, but for all your bragging I am really interested now about your gaming history and would like to learn more. I'm not above giving respect to someone's accomplishments, and even deferring to their knowledge, IF I know they're real. So please, link me any news or send it in PM if you like. After-all, my true goal is to have fun in  this game and be good at it.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...