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Tinnis

The role of Keeps and Sieges in Campaigns?

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I raised this question in the more general 'goal of the game' thread and discussed it on Discord servers.
 
Not really seen this answered by ACE unless I've missed it.
 
Just trying to place SP into the framework of a campaign world (not talking EK)
 


  • What will the non combat roles of Keeps be in Campaigns? 
  • What will the benefits be for Sieging enemy keeps to you?

("beyond just - 'for fun' or 'to show that other guild' - which are valid reasons by themselves. I'm talking mechanical gameplay implications and uses)
 


  • Will guild keeps act as resource banks? trading / crafting stations?
  • What if you don't have a guild or are more of a freelancer / small unit? Will there not be more neutral say 'towns' for people to trade etc again NOT EK)
    • (so you store and can steal other keep resources when you win a siege?
      assuming they don't just run away / log out with resources if losing a siege..)
       
    • you move resources from points of interest to your keep to be used in the world
      or before a larger dangerous push to embargo?
       
    • when you win a siege....
      how long you got to repair all the walls you knocked down and before enemies can start a siege on you)
  • Will keeps contain important built crafting stations e.g. blacksmith etc
  • Will keeps contribute to win conditions in world (e.g. controlling % of the world in territory or gathering bloodstones etc) 
  • Will keeps act as spawning points for players in an area?
  • Will owning keep help control nearby points of interest?
  • Will relic bonuses be housed in campaign world keeps (or that EK)

ETC

 



 
What do you see keeps role being, or what do you want it to be? Edited by Tinnis

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I'm hoping that Keeps will server as storehouses that can be raided and I feel they  should be attached in some way to the overall win conditions depending on

the campaign.

 

I'm not a huge fan of porting to various keeps because mobile combat is the most fun in my opinion and setting ports to every  keep was just another

nail in  the DaoC coffin. Everything  consisted pretty much of keep hugging or bridge battles.

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I don't care what happens in the outer bands, but in the inner bands "neutral" towns for trading, if run by NPCs and therefore indestructible, will be a tragic failing of the game.   Any indestructible NPC town will automatically become the safe haven for bands of griefers who are too cowardly (or "smart" in their thinking) to have assets of their own that can be taken away.  They will then raid with impunity, causing indiscriminate damage, simply because they can.  The neutral town lets them repair, access vendors, and so on.

 

A game of thrones requires that all participants risk something.  If every vendor is player controlled in a player-run stronghold, then we can take action against cities that allow griefers to trade there.  They are forced to have additional accounts inserted into guilds with cities in order to fence their goods.  There will still be griefer gangs - there's no getting around it - but making them work to support their playstyle is far better than handing it to them on a platter with neutral indestructible cities.

 

I would like to see strongholds as spawn points.  If your guild owns a stronghold, you can spawn at it when you log in.  Otherwise, you appear at a random graveyard anywhere on the continent.  Same thing when you die.  No stronghold, random graveyard (or whatever the respawn mechanic is).  You wanna be homeless raiders?  Spend all your time running across the continent to meet up.

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    • (so you store and can steal other keep resources when you win a siege?

      assuming they don't just run away / log out with resources if losing a siege..

 

For that matter, I don't think they've addressed what happens to your vessel when you log off.  It's entirely possible that only your crow leaves the campaign, and your vessel and all your inventory remains behind in some sort of unprotected state.

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I think most if not all the bullet points are in play to be a part of the CWs. To varying degrees depending on the band and ruleset modules that are in place.

 

The "Neutral" town brings up an interesting point. So we don't want them to be PvP free safe zones, but then whats the incentive for crafters or a trade focused player to go there to trade where they can just be attacked and take their stuff for free. Will have to bring friends with obv for protection but seems like it would be cumbersome to only be able to do trade when you have your guild with you.

Edited by pang

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I think most if not all the bullet points are in play to be a part of the CWs. To varying degrees depending on the band and ruleset modules that are in place.

 

The "Neutral" town brings up an interesting point. So we don't want them to be PvP free safe zones, but then whats the incentive for crafters or a trade focused player to go there to trade where they can just be attacked and take their stuff for free. Will have to bring friends with obv for protection but seems like it would be cumbersome to only be able to do trade when you have your guild with you.

 

If a neutral town exists, I would assume it will be a POI and could be captured and held.  It would also be kind of cool if you could raze them, so that at no point your opponents could use their resources. 

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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by 'neutral' town i literally meant 'a place not protected by magic keep gates' where players can gather - whether they craft, trade or fight is up to them. certainly no npc guards.

 

(one would hope the 'local community' would stop any funny business out of mutual benefit)

Edited by Tinnis

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I raised this question in the more general 'goal of the game' thread and discussed it on Discord servers.

 

Not really seen this answered by ACE unless I've missed it.

 

Just trying to place SP into the framework of a campaign world (not talking EK)

 


  • What will the non combat roles of Keeps be in Campaigns? 

I can imagine players using their Strongholds as storefronts or as crafting factories

  • What will the benefits be for Sieging enemy keeps to you?

To gain their resorces. If Guild A runs around the continent stripping the land barren and hoards all their resources, then I can see Guilds B, C, and D joining together to siege Guild A and split Guild A's resources if they win the siege. Since there is limited backpack space, Guild A can't possibly log off with most of the resources in their inventory.

("beyond just - 'for fun' or 'to show that other guild' - which are valid reasons by themselves. I'm talking mechanical gameplay implications and uses)

 


  • Will guild keeps act as resource banks? trading / crafting stations?

I imagine they can act as banks, vendors and/or crafting stations

  • What if you don't have a guild or are more of a freelancer / small unit? Will there not be more neutral say 'towns' for people to trade etc again NOT EK) 

I imagine Freelancers trading with each other, as to how. I don't believe a Fort will be hard to secure. Neutral towns can be player run, and if you don't like how players run their town? Start your own or capture theirs

  • (so you store and can steal other keep resources when you win a siege?

    assuming they don't just run away / log out with resources if losing a siege..)

I do hope so.

 

  • you move resources from points of interest to your keep to be used in the world

    or before a larger dangerous push to embargo?

Yes, that certainly is a way to use your stronghold.

  • when you win a siege....

    how long you got to repair all the walls you knocked down and before enemies can start a siege on you)

Since ACE has said there will be specific times when you can siege, I imagine you will have until the next siege window to repair the walls.

 

  • Will keeps contain important built crafting stations e.g. blacksmith etc

I imagine players will place crafting stations in their strongholds themselves.

  • Will keeps contribute to win conditions in world (e.g. controlling % of the world in territory or gathering bloodstones etc) 

I guess this just depends on the rulesets of a campaign. 

  • Will keeps act as spawning points for players in an area?

I don't disagree with Strongholds acting as spawn points (when logging in), but I'm not entirely sure they should act as respawn points.

  • Will owning keep help control nearby points of interest?

Owning a Stronghold will certainly make transporting resources from nearby PoIs quicker and safer

  • Will relic bonuses be housed in campaign world keeps (or that EK)

Aren't relics more like trophys with benefits? I guess they can be housed in strongholds

ETC

 


 

What do you see keeps role being, or what do you want it to be?

 

I see Strongholds' roles being like safe havens for allies, crafting factories for guildies, vendors for merchants and/or pubs for mercenaries .

 

I can also see Strongholds having some stacking benefits, for example:

 

Forts: Spawn Point, Relic Houser 

Keeps: Spawn Point, Relic Houser, Storehouses

Castles: Spawn Point, Relic Houser, Storehouses, Thrall Vendors

Citadels: Spawn Point, Relic Houser, Storehouses, Thrall Vendors, Thrall Sentries

 

All in all, its up to the owners of the Stronghold to decide in what way they want to use it.


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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mmm

 

another thought from that.

 

when a keep is not under siege - will it be 'open' for anyone outside of the guild who own it to walk into to trade or by some sort of invite / alliance system (e.g. faction)

 

(also assuming in larger faction bands - are keeps owned by guilds or factions)


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Hey there I'll try to answer a few of these if I can.

 

  • What will the non combat roles of Keeps be in Campaigns? 

 
They will house crafting stations like blacksmith or alchemy shop along with useful buildings that add helpful features like stables and taverns.
 
 

What will the benefits be for Sieging enemy keeps to you?

 

 

Taking away the retaliative safety they can provide. They also store resources and help as control points for POI (resource nodes, graveyards, farmland, etc)

 

What if you don't have a guild or are more of a freelancer / small unit? Will there not be more neutral say 'towns' for people to trade etc again NOT EK)
(so you store and can steal other keep resources when you win a siege?
assuming they don't just run away / log out with resources if losing a siege..) 

 

There's no details on what happens when we logout but games that have lootable PCs tend to leave the characters in the world for a certain about a time making them vulnerable to attack.

 
 

you move resources from points of interest to your keep to be used in the world or before a larger dangerous push to embargo?

 

 

There is limited space in your embargo and we don't know if we can take things out once we put it in. But if so it might a viable strategy. However if it becomes a safe place aka a bank, then I can see some changes coming for it.

 

when you win a siege....
how long you got to repair all the walls you knocked down and before enemies can start a siege on you)

 

 

More than 30 seconds ;)

 

Will keeps contain important built crafting stations e.g. blacksmith etc

 

 

Yes. We will craft them from resources we gather. Crafters are an important part of the game!

 

Will owning keep help control nearby points of interest?

 

 

No. Each POI will be open to everyone. However, it will be easier to farm them and hunt enemies that come around.

 

_________

 

Hope this help :)

Edited by Keaggan

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Keeps are places to stay safe, heal, be fed by the collection of traders or crafters, and be protected from the harsh outdoors, especially going into winter.

 

Sieges can be used to weaken keeps before the actual battle. By siege, I mean attacking and guarding all points of entry until the final battle, either forcing the enemy to come out and weaken themselves to try and break the siege, or to wait it out and be starved or unequiped for the battle.

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  • Will keeps contribute to win conditions in world (e.g. controlling % of the world in territory or gathering bloodstones etc) 

 

I would need to watch that video again, but at least from what I remember, the way they explained the bloodstone campaign ruleset, bloodstones would spawn from the Tree of Life inside a keep at a specific time (around the same time the keep becomes vulnerable to being sieged). And then they'd need to be carried to a different location in order to be sacrificed for victory points. So that would make keeps very important to win campaigns with the bloodstone ruleset. And defenders would need to face certain strategic decisions in terms of defending the keep against attackers and having to sacrifice the bloodstones in a different location at the same time. 


 

 

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mmm

 

another thought from that.

 

when a keep is not under siege - will it be 'open' for anyone outside of the guild who own it to walk into to trade or by some sort of invite / alliance system (e.g. faction)

 

(also assuming in larger faction bands - are keeps owned by guilds or factions)

 

It would be great if guilds that hold keeps could decide whether to open or close their gates. Thus having to decide if the keep is just an outpost or if it's a trading keep. If it's a trading keep, used for trading resources and goods, then there's risk involved in letting everyone just walk into your keep. But a positive of it is that you might be able to put a tax on the items being sold through the vendors there. 

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I would need to watch that video again, but at least from what I remember, the way they explained the bloodstone campaign ruleset, bloodstones would spawn from the Tree of Life inside a keep at a specific time (around the same time the keep becomes vulnerable to being sieged). And then they'd need to be carried to a different location in order to be sacrificed for victory points. So that would make keeps very important to win campaigns with the bloodstone ruleset. And defenders would need to face certain strategic decisions in terms of defending the keep against attackers and having to sacrifice the bloodstones in a different location at the same time.

I was wondering if anyone was actually on this for a second.

 

It's fairly evident from the siege demo, I'd really like them to find a deeper control mechanism, but as it stands major POIs are intended to be fortified and challenged because of the tree and points.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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