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Grimulf

Autorun hotkey

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I think you're smart enough to get the point I'm making.

Yea and it's a very weak point.  It's really simple, if you want a game to emphasize the relevance of the game world, you do not design it so people can travel while afk. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I like having a run toggle for things like, taking a drink, answering the phone, alt tabbing and doing something quick etc. There is no real reason to not have this convenience feature. Hopefully it comes with an improved, more complete, custom hotkey system.

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I see no reason to not have an auto run key. If someone wants to afk run while in-game it's another example of risk versus reward. You run the risk of being ganked while taking a piss with your reward being you got to run in a straight line for a little while. Fair trade, imo.


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I also am strongly requesting an Autorun feature. Holding W for combat and a little bit of local running around is fine and expected. But for long distance travel, it isn't nearly as feasible. And the bigger the worlds get in this game, the bigger an issue this will become.

 

I find it much harder to "get into" games that lack Autorun, especially long term. I like to explore and travel to far away places, but if it feels like I have to endure the travel mechanics more than enjoy them, I'm not likely to do as much of it, and then I end up losing interest.

 

If somebody feels holding W for half an hour makes them a better player, then by all means feel free to do that. But don't force me to as well. It does not make me a better player. In fact it makes me worse. I've already got enough aches and pains with my hands.

 

Having to religiously hold down some button for long periods of time only makes me mentally zone out trying to ignore the discomfort / boredom. Then when it's time to move on (or fight), I'm less refreshed, less engaged ready to spring to action. Same goes for gathering by holding F. The act if holding a button does not add anything good to the experience. It only detracts from it.

 

I really hope ACE will give this more consideration and feedback.

 

 

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I completely agree. I'd love an auto-run key. As someone else said...not an auto-path. I work on my computer all day long, and have previously suffered from RSI. I don't want to be triggering the sharp pains in my hands because I'd love to run to a far off spot on the map.

 

This isn't a detrimental to the experience feature, it's about common sense and preserving my hands. I've never AFK'ed with auto run in any game...there's rarely a straight path to where you want to go, you have to turn.

 

Please yes to autorun!

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This is a terrible argument.  I could just say, "If you want a handholding experience go make your own game." 

 

This is one of those situations where you can see the difference in gaming backgrounds showing.  The most competitive pvpers usually want a game to be as skill-reliant as possible, they want as little automation as possible as automation caters to the lowest common denominator. 

 

People that are conditioned to convenience are so dangerous for game development because they want things like autorun, and fast travel, and auto aim, and easy ways to exit campaigns, etc etc.  Such a detrimental mentality that competitive pvpers have to deal with. 

 

I'm sorry but in any pvp game that wants to take itself seriously, "Don't have the attention span" is not a valid reason for convenience. 

 

"Convenience" isn't necessarily synonymous with "just wanting it easier" (catering to lazy).  Depending on the view point or situation it might relate to an efficiency issue.  As example, a well designed UI is vastly more convenient to use than a crappy one due to intuitive and clean (efficient) design.

 

Auto-Run isn't really a large scale issue that colors a game to the extent you are promoting.

 

I'll be fine with using Auto-run if they implement it.  I'll be fine playing the game if they don't implement it.

Edited by Bramble

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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Convenience is not synonymous with laziness or inability. For the same reason you use a microwave or a stove instead of chopping firewood and cooking your meals over an open fire, people enjoy the use of innovative technology because it increases quality of life. Certain items in games that increase quality of life should be considered mandatory. Crowfall has a graphical user interface instead of text base input which is a mandatory convenience in a modern MMO. Auto-run is a standard and easy to add feature that benefits everybody and only hinders a small minority such as Vikingnail. It is not a feature that has to be considered in the search of what is fun. As I stated above, it won't effect me because I will find a way around it but, for most people, leaving out such an essential base feature in an open world mmo is practically unheard of. Even in UO you could macro automatic directional movement.

 

I'm sorry but, not including some sort of auto-move command would just be a major complaint for ACE until it was added. I'm for putting it in the game.

Really?  Because someone literally just made the argument about not having the attention span to handle actively pressing forward in the game all of the time. 

 

Does that sound like the type of gamer you want to make a grizzled pvp game for?  Or do you want to make it for the person that wants to make deliberate and active and tactical decisions with their characters and not require the automation because of not having the attention span?  There are plenty of games out there created for the people who don't want to truly focus on their decisions and actions while gaming.  Crowfall doesn't need to copy those games, because it will fail if it just becomes another watered down pvp experience because such experiences are dime a dozen out there.

 

Convenience features hinder everyone, because when you cater to them you end up with games like WoW, which make the industry stale. 

VN if you don't like convenience then program your own game in binary and play it by inserting punch cards into a computer the size of your room.

This is a terrible argument.  I could just say, "If you want a handholding experience go make your own game." 

So...VIKINGNAIL. You claim that his argument is terrible because you could counter it with a completely unrelated argument that doesn't address anything he said.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...

 

Irony.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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Why are people arguing over Auto Run.

It's Auto RUN, we can't fly so we can't just float over everything and our characters won't AI around trees so I don't see an issue...

It's a quality of life improvement, people. Saves me the effort of remapping my arrow keys and using a rock.

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So...VIKINGNAIL. You claim that his argument is terrible because you could counter it with a completely unrelated argument that doesn't address anything he said.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...

 

Irony.

I actually completely countered it, just because some people don't understand the merits of what I am saying doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

People are just trying to justify their desire for an automated convenience feature, it's boring, and caters to the lowest common denominator in gaming. 

 

Autorun cheapens the value of the persistent world, just like other automated traveling features. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I actually completely countered it, just because some people don't understand the merits of what I am saying doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

People are just trying to justify their desire for an automated convenience feature, it's boring, and caters to the lowest common denominator in gaming. 

 

Autorun cheapens the value of the persistent world, just like other automated traveling features. 

No, you countered someone else's argument. I could make the case that you didn't even do that, but it would be irrelevant - nothing you said addressed IdeaMatrix's argument that "convenience" is not the same as "laziness." Nothing you said addressed the assertion that an autorun button is not "automation."

 

Your replies were all completely unrelated to the comment you were replying to.

 

Edit: for the sake of clarity, let me give you an example of how your argument doesn't make sense.

 

You claim that autorun cheapens the value of the persistent world, just like other automated traveling features.

 

Just like what other automated traveling features? Are you referring to teleportation? Because not only is teleportation not implemented, but autorun is in absolutely no way comparable to teleportation.

 

Teleportation gets you from point A to point B faster than running by holding down W.

 

Autorun gets you from point A to point B at the exact same speed as running by holding down W.

 

But this is moot because teleportation isn't going to be implemented. So how about a different comparison instead. Maybe you meant that autorun cheapens the value of the persistent world, just like mounts with higher movement speeds do.

 

How would you defend that assertion? By your argument, does jumping on a horse not cheapen the value of a persistent world by making movement across it easier? What's that? Riding on a horse isn't the same thing as a button that you can press once instead of holding down W forever? What a good point. Those two things ARE completely different and unrelated in every way.

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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I actually completely countered it, just because some people don't understand the merits of what I am saying doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

People are just trying to justify their desire for an automated convenience feature, it's boring, and caters to the lowest common denominator in gaming. 

 

Autorun cheapens the value of the persistent world, just like other automated traveling features. 

Actually, you know what? I agree. But if we're going to apply this logic, we should take it all the way.

 

I am offended by the degree of automation in crafting. I should have to hold down the W key until every individual component of my weapon finishes crafting. Anything less, and the game is catering to all those troglodytes who want their game fully automated so they never have to do anything.

 

At least they got it right with harvesting - you have to hold down F until that rock breaks. And as we all know, there are absolutely no dissenting opinions about how THAT system works, because it is so obviously the ONLY way to do it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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Actually, you know what? I agree. But if we're going to apply this logic, we should take it all the way.

 

I am offended by the degree of automation in crafting. I should have to hold down the W key until every individual component of my weapon finishes crafting. Anything less, and the game is catering to all those troglodytes who want their game fully automated so they never have to do anything.

 

At least they got it right with harvesting - you have to hold down F until that rock breaks. And as we all know, there are absolutely no dissenting opinions about how THAT system works, because it is so obviously the ONLY way to do it.

Sure, but the reality of it is right now people are conditioned to want things way too easy, we can't make everything hard, but we have to pick just how easy we are going to make it. 

 

There must be balance, and right now the balance is out of whack and skews towards easy-mode for most games, and most gamers are conditioned towards that.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Arguing with VN is not like arguing with a person.

 

You're arguing with a caricature.

 

If people want autorun (and they DO), I think the devs would be silly not to incorporate it. 

A lot of people want a lot of convenience features, ACE shouldn't just cater to them.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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we can't make everything hard, but we have to pick just how easy we are going to make it. 

 

Who is this "we" and how are they doing anything?

 

A lot of people want a lot of convenience features, ACE shouldn't just cater to them.

 

While I can agree with the negative results that can come of convenience, there is a point when "a lot of people" are keeping a game a live and not catering to them is poor choice.

 

I'm sure we could list out a lot of "convenience" or "hardcore" features that could be added with pros/cons each. ACE will need to figure out which fit their vision the best along with catering to enough of us to keep their lights on and fridges full.

 

It can be a slippery slope, but some options are expected by the masses these days, be it the "masses" are a niche or not.

 

I'd much rather they cater to "A lot of people" instead of you or me specifically. My preferences are less important than a game existing that I would enjoy.

 

They aren't making your dream game, sorry.

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I think in a previous 'autorun' thread I argued against an autorun hotkey and after testing in the Big World I haven't changed my mind. Its not that it's a convenience it is because I don't think I would use it much. 

 

If the Devs put it in OK not a problem but I think their time is better spent elsewhere.


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