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Ziz

Who likes the combat, why?

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Disregarding performance that should be fixed by launch (if not the game is sol anyway) and bugs that will get fixed.

 

Who likes combat in CF compared to other games and why? I'd like to see some positive opinions to see things from a better perspective.

Edited by Ziz

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I can only say I don't dislike it. I like the speed of combat, because a lot of games with action combat and mass pvp are infected by fast and flashy animations hiding their simple mechanics, leading to big GvGs being a clustercustard of effects (and if you turn effects off, a clustercustard of weird character movement).

 

I think the core combat mechanics are decent, but obviously still far away from being polished. If the game was released with the combat how it is right now (disregarding performance/bugs/balance), I would be disappointed - maybe not right away since it always takes some time to get past the "oh this is so new and fun" part.

I like that they are doing a lot of combat testing,but It would also be interesting to know how ACE feels about the testers' feedback and their combat right now and what they want to change in the future.

Edited by Koerpermilch

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My opinion? Currently, it's near (but not total) ass. Mostly due to how root motion & combos are implemented. Combat feels lackluster. It doesn't try to innovate and that's fine, but what it does, it does poorly. Crowfall has the advantage of being possibly the only pure bred siege based pvp mmo on the market come release, but that advantage is quickly disappearing with CU and Bless both aiming to enter beta Q3 this year.

Edited by helix

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Honest as I can be, when the soul-crushing lag goes on vacation and the fun-hating bugs don't have me spawning dead or something, I enjoy the combat even in this antiseptic environment. It does feel pretty reactionary to me.

 

What isn't fun is the realization that your _____ is just like everyone else's ______ and the 2-4 powers worth using on your _____ are the same 2-4 powers the _____ next to you will be using, exclusively.

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This is where I call out Sugoi members xD

 

I am interested in seeing their opinions based on their attendance in essentially every test.

I normally wouldn't respond to this type of thread because its for people who "like combat" all i can say is ehh?

 

it's very average, pretty slow, and imbalanced. I'd really like a sit down and talk with the dev's about some of the major issues that are going down in the game but I doubt I'll get one unless I'm some kinda of big Youtuber or blog writer, or I throw 500 more dollars at the game. Combat is a huge issue to us and I'd love to contribute some more but it seems like their priorities are elsewhere at the moment. Though even if combat is slow and clunky months later for soft launch, the good players will still stand out from the bad. Yes the current iteration of combat isn't good but if you cant play a super slow game then you sure as hell can't match up in a fast game.


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I like the split-body animations, I like the various cc abilities and the dynamic they bring to the battle. The dodging and interrupts all make for good reactionary-type play where your situational awareness and not blowing cooldowns too early can make for really fun, intense, and protracted battles. I like the collision detection so it's possible to trap players unless they use one of their physics abilities to escape. At first I didn't like the archetypes because I don't like pigeon-holing myself to a specific role with a cookie-cutter character, but from what I'm seeing (hoping?) is that between starting and discipline runes and skill training you can have a mace-wielding confessor or a bow-plucking legionnaire. I think that kind of creative freedom with character customization will make for a very rich combat system in terms of how particular group/toon comps work against others. I know that last part doesn't address the "feel" of combat but it adds a depth to it we can't outright disregard.

 

Up until the recent root-motion animations added to the Legio melee combo I really liked combat and had a lot of fun testing Crowfall, a tad slow for my tastes but I could see where the pieces were falling together. It's not that I don't still enjoy testing, I don't like the direction root-motion has taken it thus far. That's not to say they won't improve upon it but as it stands I feel it's a step backwards. I don't like losing control of my character at any point and the root-motion makes me do just that. I wouldn't mind it so much if I could control the animation as it was happening to supplement and augment the move according to the dynamic battle situation. As it stands I have to hope that if an opponent flees while I'm activating the combo, they flee in the direction I was aiming when I started that particular link in the combo chain. 

 

I mentioned combat being a tad slow. I can handle slower combat if it feels responsive and if combat as a whole requires presence-of-mind in terms of awareness, reactionary play and knowledge of your opponents as a precursor to successful play. This is in opposition to running in and button-mashing. I feel Crowfall has that so I'm willing to look past the relatively slow combat.  

 

All in all I "like" Crowfall combat but I don't "love" it: I wouldn't play it if I didn't enjoy it. I am willing to look past its current form because I see a bigger picture where all the kinks are smoothed out and it becomes something many people will come to love. 


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I like it. It still has a long ways to go though.

 

I like the speed of combat. I like that it is very group coordination heavy. I like that good positioning is strong. I like that poor positioning can get you killed. I like the idea of the combo system, though the implementation currently is kinda weak. I like the physics to a degree.

 

While it's not perfect, it's enjoyable to me. I would like to see where they take it and hopefully it will only get better from here on out.


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It's so slow I cannot even stand to test it and tell everyone who asks about the game that the combat is like playing in super slow motion and not to bother. I do like how many/certain skills work though, just not the falling asleep during the cast, waking up, going to work, coming home, and it's about finished casting.


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I normally wouldn't respond to this type of thread because its for people who "like combat" all i can say is ehh?

 

Mostly in agreement with cuddles if your asking for good thinks to say about combat I have very few words even after reading other members post, most of the aforementioned stuff can be found done better in a different game. Still a big fan of the low skill entry high skill cap curve concept but both of those are currently fairly low, as long as ACE understands combat must be fun first and then balanced I'm sure they'll at least get it partially right but as of right now it's neither for me.  

Edited by Uyathefox

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It's hard to comment since I have very little testing experience but, what I have is a lot of spectator experience, lots of mmo experience and second hand knowledge of the game. In the current timeframe that ACE has given itself, based on the progression curve that the game has been following, I think combat will be about 60-75% ready by soft launch. This will mean a few things for the game:

 

1)They will need to cut some of the archetypes out of the game completely until post launch. The balancing of the current archetypes is going through so many iterations that they're basically redesigning the game every month or two. Although this will make the game amazing eventually, it's taking a lot of development time away from the rest of the game. I'd rather see simple, generic kits with sterilized numbers and wait until the game feels playable to rebalance.

 

2)Combat is the only core feature of the game that has been fleshed out. They're starting to touch on physics, voxels, parcels and crafting but, I'd say they're all being hindered by game performance problems and waiting on new tech to be developed. ACE has an amazing team of developers but, I think they're stretched too thin to get all of these things working 100% before the end of the year. I'd suggest putting voxels and wall physics on the back burner until post launch. Taking these features out of the game will boost performance across the board and free up people to work on other features.

 

3) The timeline needs to be pushed back. I think it's a risky to soft release a game to appease impatient players. Kickstarters who have already paid into the game know what the issues are but, new players (who are your main source of new revenue) do not. I'm sure ACE knows what happens when a game has a failed release. Calling it a "soft release" is a poor PR move. Keep the game in beta, or just CALL it beta. I think this will soften the blow.

 

4)VIP needs to be re-tuned to be more enticing to new players. Turn the VIP Tokens into a currency for the online store. An example would be instead of spending $150 with your credit card you purchase it with 10 VIP tokens. These would be non-refundable to prevent scams. Tokens would only be redeemable for in-game items such as castle kits or parcels. This will create a currency standard and give tokens a tangible value other than getting more training. It will also allow players to trade for store items when they can't afford to pay and open the market to a wider demographic.

 

These are just a few observations and ideas. Also, woo Crowfall.

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Ok, so you're asking for positive opinions. Let's see... 

 

I guess I'm closer to Chodie's opinion on this. I think Crowfall's combat is alright for an MMO. When trying to imagine a more polished, bug free and lag free version of it, I feel like it'd fit its purpose. Considering all the other game elements that would combine with combat to create an unique experience. It's still considerably better than anything tab target combat can offer. The only reason I could ever imagine myself playing CU is if Crowfall totally screws up in the performance department and CU completely nails it. And even then, the sub based model would still make me hesitate.  

 

I would never play Crowfally solely or mainly for its combat though. What will make it worthwhile IMO is the complete experience of an economy based, open world siege warfare for the control of resources. No game with good combat offers anything even closely resembling that at the moment. And companies that have hundreds of millions to invest in a game and make an AAA combat system won't make a game like this anytime in the near future. 


 

 

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I would prefer split body animations, so that I'm free to move as I like, while swinging towards the reticle.  The root motion and directionality just added to LMB make the game feel very awkward.  I don't like constantly sliding past the person I'm attacking, especially on the first move of a combo, because it frequently wastes the follow-up move(s).

 

What I do like about the combat is that it rewards teamwork, and skilled players can clearly stand out from the crowd, even with the combat being as simple as it is right now.  I've gotten used to the pace of combat, and I find that the telegraphs are generally easy to recognize and react to, although the reaction is too simple (as a knight, no matter what is coming, block just before it lands).  So their concept is working, but the implementation needs work.

 

I have issues with the power packages - all the knight powers are useful, but weak, and the ranger has two great melee powers, and the rest don't get used, for example.  But there's a lot of iterating and adjusting ACE can do between now and launch with powers.   It's how they deal with the absolute basic core mechanics of melee combat that will make the game combat really enjoyable or not.  Right now, it's less enjoyable than it was two weeks ago.

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I like the combat simply because it will show me what ACE's priorities are.  It's a pretty weak combat system right now, but at least they have plenty of opportunity to improve it.


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I've only played about 7-8 test sessions and only a few archetypes so I don't have a complete overview of the combat system. However, from what I have played the combat style is playable but it is let down by poor performance (very low frame rate). The combo system and minimal hot key bar I like although there should be more options in the combo tree.

 

I also like how the non tabbed action combat works but as a mainly ranged DPS player I feel sometimes the range of the attacks are too short. The hit box is about right but again with the poor performance it's difficult to judge.


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Good things about combat.... 

it works ? you can kill enemies with it ?

 

/sarcasm off

 

It seems most of ablitlies are interesting in concept. They just need tweaking so there is no obvious ''best in every situation'' moves.

 

Other then that it's...

too slow(animation roots are in way too many places and too long)

too clunky ( mostly due to latency / optimization and poor character interaction coupled with very weak hit feedback )

too static ( ranged classes should be renamed to FlameTurret and ArcherTower )

and 101 other problems.

Edited by Naur

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I like combat with physics effects and manual aiming of powers (despite the teething issues at the moment).

 

e.g. puts me in mind of something along the lines of Mass Effect (<3 lift, push, black holes combinations)

 

i like the movement powers (wheee!) and contextual powers like rear kick (when it works...been awhile. need more things like this).

Edited by Tinnis

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Kind of a loaded question no? I mean obviously its not finished and no where near good enough as stated by both players and ACE.

 

I'll just say I like the potential this combat system has to be really good action combat once they get past some of the major issues and continue tweaking it.

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I like the pace of combat. BDO has great action mechanics but it's also a spamfest of movement abilities. This combat feels more in  line with  old mmo's where assist trains can mow down targets and not one person just spamming a combo.

 

That being said,, I still dont like the zoomed in look of the camera. I don't need to see the freckles of my enemy, i need to see a decent portion of the battlefied. Maybe i just haven't adjusted my  camera settings  properly. Guild wars2 had a nice scaling and semi-panoramic view.

 

I  dont like the pop-up notifications for combos. Clutters the screen, hopefully  UI  customization can fix or erase them.

 

I'm not a fan of going to stun someone on my  knight,  and have me dash through them,  nor a fan of the chain pull targetting.. way  too unforgiving.

 

Not being able to blast someone down 1v1 is also nice. Draws skirmishes out more and a nice lengthy fight is much  more enjoyable than a steamroll (on either side)

 

Overall it needs work, but the sky  isn't falling and this is pre-alpha. The complete transparency of  the developers attracted me to this game, and the continuing openess will keep me here supporting it,  even through the muddiness of the design process. All games go through it.

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