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Personalization of Crafted Items and Sets


Eggbert
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Based on my experience with other crafting systems I have a couple of questions: 

  1. Will the materials used in the construction of an item dictate the color of the item. In UO for instance if you create copper armor it was a different color then armor created with gold ore. In Dark Age of Camelot you had to enamel armor to change the color.
  2. Will you be able to change the color of armor once it has been crafted.
  3. Will the "Makers Mark" be stamped on all items or only those of certain quality, or will it be at the crafters choice to stamp it once it has been crafted?
  4. In the Crafting and Economy FAQ http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/4488-crafting-economy-f-a-q/  it gives examples of Crafting a plate helm and there being only a single recepi for that helm where the use of different materials cause the item to have different stats and attributes. Do they also change the appearance?
  5. Are there going to be different item styles. For instance Roman Plate Armor would look different Hessian Plate Armor.
  6. The most frustrating thing for me in WOW crafting was that you could never craft a full set of armor for a specific level of play. you had to be lv 10 for the legs, lvl 11 for the helm and gloves, lvl 12 for the chest piece. So by the time you got the full set, parts of the set were useless to the level you were playing. In UO really spoiled me on crafting and I have yet to find any game that really meets that standard. You crafted a full set of armor and you can just use it. It was the wearers skill level that determined how effective the armor was. Same thing for weapons. Any one can pick up a sword and try to smack someone with it. Its the skill level that makes determines how effective you are. I am hoping that the crafted items will not be tied to level but that anyone can use anything and that it will be their skill level that determines the effectiveness of that use.
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I'm also interested in numbers 1 to 3.

 

I would hope that "appearance" (within reason) is something that we can change to fit our personal styles.  If I build a plate chest piece, then let me choose the appearance style, as long as it can be recognized as plate.  They may also have appearance items for sale in the store, as vanity items.  What would be better yet, would be place vanity item BPs in the store (if they sell vanity items) and also make players acquire the resources in game in order to create the item from the BP.

 

On number 6, the thing I would like to bring up; I really hope they allow us to use different weapons for all archetypes.  Please don't limit us to only a staff for a druid, or bows for stalkers; allow us to use different weapons, and then have general weapon powers based on those weapons.  It probably won't happen because of the generic way they are building the combat trays, but it was so nice to be able to choose your weapon (again within reason) in Shadowbane.

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1. Yes. Material color will affect appearance.

2. Not sure about this one, but I hope so :)

3. Not quite sure about this one, but if I recall correctly there was a dicussion about flavor text vs. visual mark, and if we could leave a mark not only 'by player xy' but instead 'by guild xy'. Or did I dream that one? Would be too nice xD

4. check again qustion 1. Sure they do.

5. I'd say that, similar to different building styles, we WILL see it - some time later. Hopefully.

 

6. I think someone already said that there will be different weapons for the archetypes, Druids can wield books as well, and the other way round for confessors with staff. But I don't think they'll make different skills for the different weapons.

In my mind it makes absolutly no sense to divide armor sets for levels....in a game that has no levels. So, rest assured ;) Might be that there's a passive skill, armor training, giving you access to higher grade armor. But than it's general, not per armor part. That's indeed stupid.

 

Hope that helps a bit, even with the guessing and still lacking knowledge!

Edited by Akineko

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When they start to reveal more of the crafting mechanics there will be lots discussion and comparison with other MMOs. I just hope there is flexibility, customisation and complexity for the craters to get their teeth into. 

Looking for a casual guild ...

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would not expect a massive variety of the same class of armor (plate/mail/leather/cloth). Yes I think it is safe to assume that you will get different colors based on the different metals/alloys used to craft it, but I would not expect 6 different versions of plate that look completely different. The devs have hinted at this in various posts/videos (I'm too lazy to find them), because of the amount of artwork that would be involved.

 

Remember that each archetype has its own artwork for a given type of armor, so if you have 6 different types of plate for 13 different archetypes you are talking about  78 different armor designs which then need to be modified for each color possible. You can see how this might get out of hand when factoring in the different types of armor. I would expect plate to always look the same (except for color) on a knight but would look different than if it was on a champion. 

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Remember that each archetype has its own artwork for a given type of armor, so if you have 6 different types of plate for 13 different archetypes you are talking about  78 different armor designs which then need to be modified for each color possible. You can see how this might get out of hand when factoring in the different types of armor. I would expect plate to always look the same (except for color) on a knight but would look different than if it was on a champion. 

That's the type of system I don't want to see; I don't want to see archetype specific armor.  Give me x sets of heavy, y sets of medium and z sets of light.  The direction of giving the druid different armor than say the ranger, is in my opinion the wrong direction.  Give us nature armor with lightning/dex stats and let us choose if we want to use that on our ranger or druid or champion etc.

 

Then when we get crafting it's easier for the artists to work on armor, and not have to worry about 78 different armor sets.

 

With player looting, I don't want to loot a cool set of armor from say a knight, only to have it look like a dress when I place it on my druid.  I want the knight concept that I looted.

 

Mandalorian armor in SWG didn't cease to be Mandalorian armor because it was worn by different classes.  Archetypes should not be determining the look of our armor (and I also wish we were allowed to choose race before choosing archetype like in SB); where racial differences may exist, but only because of things like furry feet or horns coming out of the head.

 

If we are able to dye our armor after creation, then sheen should be used to determine the base resource used to create that armor.  Iron ore creates a very dull sheen, while gold glistens, even when dyed.  Maybe Copper is very rough, while tin is very smooth.  There are ways to distinguish armor using Substances and maintain a single texture group for an armor set.  Or maybe the base color can be changed, but specific points on the armor are kept gold/silver/tin/iron etc. so we know the type of material that was used.

Edited by Teufel

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That's the type of system I don't want to see; I don't want to see archetype specific armor.  Give me x sets of heavy, y sets of medium and z sets of light.  The direction of giving the druid different armor than say the ranger, is in my opinion the wrong direction.  Give us nature armor with lightning/dex stats and let us choose if we want to use that on our ranger or druid or champion etc.

 

Then when we get crafting it's easier for the artists to work on armor, and not have to worry about 78 different armor sets.

 

With player looting, I don't want to loot a cool set of armor from say a knight, only to have it look like a dress when I place it on my druid.  I want the knight concept that I looted.

 

Mandalorian armor in SWG didn't cease to be Mandalorian armor because it was worn by different classes.  Archetypes should not be determining the look of our armor (and I also wish we were allowed to choose race before choosing archetype like in SB); where racial differences may exist, but only because of things like furry feet or horns coming out of the head.

 

If we are able to dye our armor after creation, then sheen should be used to determine the base resource used to create that armor.  Iron ore creates a very dull sheen, while gold glistens, even when dyed.  Maybe Copper is very rough, while tin is very smooth.  There are ways to distinguish armor using Substances and maintain a single texture group for an armor set.  Or maybe the base color can be changed, but specific points on the armor are kept gold/silver/tin/iron etc. so we know the type of material that was used.

 

The devs have already addressed this. They will not be offering race choice for archetypes because of the animation complexities. If they allowed this, then they would need to figure out how a centaur looks when casting every spell which they could based on race/class combinations. Its one thing when all "races" are essentially humanoid and are roughly the same size. 

 

The armor that you will pick up from a fallen foe, will be generic and not locked to a specific class. However the nature armor that you alluded to will still be usable on a different class but will look different. The armor that will be crafted will be very generic as discussed by the devs.

 

http://crowfall.com/en/faq/economy/ 

 

10. HOW ARE CROWFALL RECIPES DIFFERENT THAN OTHER GAMES?

Most crafting systems recipes are very specific. 3 iron ingots and 2 wool cloth will craft an Iron Plate Helm. This recipe is repeated up the chain, mapping each tier of metal to a unique recipe. At the end of the day, the crafter has 500 recipes, most of them unused.

 

Crowfall’s recipes are fluid; because the ingredients are not as strict, which leads to a higher degree of system exploration.

 

For example: You have a single recipe for “Plate Helm” in your list. The requirements are 3 metal and 1 cloth 1 Leather and 1 additive element. The player can choose which tiers of those resources to put in those slots. As long as the slots are filled with something valid, the recipe will craft. They can even add something special to the additive slot to alter the item in a significant way. This reduces our recipe count by about 90% and every recipe in the Crowfall player’s book remains useful. Moreover, the result is more varied and it’s going to be up to the player to figure out the “right” combination of reagents to produce the desired result.

  http://crowfall.com/en/faq/armor/ 2. WHO CAN WEAR WHAT TYPE OF ARMOR?

Every archetype can wear any style of armor: leather, mail and plate. (Yes, even spellcasters!)

Edited by Verot
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Animation complexities are not that hard to overcome, especially when they can reuse animations for new spells.  More than likely the real reason is they don't want to balance the races with archetypes; i.e. they are taking the easy way out.

 

.........

 

The armor that you will pick up from a fallen foe, will be generic and not locked to a specific class. However the nature armor that you alluded to will still be usable on a different class but will look different. The armor that will be crafted will be very generic as discussed by the devs.

 

The whole point of my post was about how I don't want armor to look different between the archetypes.  The heavy armor found on a champion should look like the same heavy armor found on a druid or any other archetype.

 

I do not want each archetype to have it's own "artwork" for each type of armor.  What if I want my female druid to wear armor that looks like traditional rogue armor?  Right now I'm stuck with dresses on the female druid; no matter what type of armor I choose, be it plate, chain or leather.  Why are we being limited to "archetype" specific armor?

 

In your plate helm example above, it will look different on a druid than it would on a champion; even though the flexibility in the ingredients is present.  What I am getting at is the helm should visually look the same across all archetypes.

 

There are really 2 discussions right now, that of recipes and that of the actual visual armor model.  I agree that the recipe side of things will be flexible and that different resources will create different stats on each item.  It's the visual side of things that I am frustrated with.  I want to see a system where the recipe dictates the visual appearance of an item, and not the archetype. Currently each archetype has very specific armor models, that are not duplicated on another archetype.

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Animation complexities are not that hard to overcome, especially when they can reuse animations for new spells.  More than likely the real reason is they don't want to balance the races with archetypes; i.e. they are taking the easy way out.

 

The whole point of my post was about how I don't want armor to look different between the archetypes.  The heavy armor found on a champion should look like the same heavy armor found on a druid or any other archetype.

 

They are not just taking the easy way out. The devs have clearly stated on multiple occasions that they have no desire to balance archetypes. They fully expect that some classes will be more powerful than others and they are OK with that.

 

While I see your point regarding your preference, I just don't see them changing their stance on visuals. It is one thing to have a specific looks for specific armor if there was something unique about it (think WoW sets) but the gear here is not designed to be ultra rare and therefore does not need to be distinguishable by appearance alone. 

 

What is important at this point in development is that players are able to quickly identify the type of armor. 

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They are not just taking the easy way out. The devs have clearly stated on multiple occasions that they have no desire to balance archetypes. They fully expect that some classes will be more powerful than others and they are OK with that.

 

While I see your point regarding your preference, I just don't see them changing their stance on visuals. It is one thing to have a specific looks for specific armor if there was something unique about it (think WoW sets) but the gear here is not designed to be ultra rare and therefore does not need to be distinguishable by appearance alone. 

 

What is important at this point in development is that players are able to quickly identify the type of armor. 

Balancing racial traits with archetypes is another layer of complexity.  It's not that they will balance for power, it's that there are currently racial benefits.  Imagine a flying elf as a druid; would that be balanced?  What about a faster assassin as a centaur assassin.  So while not necessarily balancing for pure power, they would have to balance races and archetypes if they opened up varying races for each archetype.  Otherwise, just let us re-skin ourselves like they are allowing us to do with pack pigs or mounts.

 

Bottom line on the visual, I shouldn't have to wear a dress as a female druid.  I should be able to wear any type of leather look that is available to other archetypes; i.e. the druid should be able to have the same visual appearance as a ranger.  Most players are not going to associate a dress with plate armor, even if that's currently how it works.  Every armor model the female druid has is a dress with minor detail differences so we can tell if it's a "plate" dress, or a "chain" dress, or a "leather" dress.

 

If I want to craft something, I don't want to be limited to the visual appearances of only dresses for my female druid.  I want to be able to make plate armor that looks like the champions plate armor, and have that visual style be available on my druid.

 

I keep using the female druid as an example because it is easy to identify problems with "plate" dresses; but the same concept can be applied to any archetype.

Edited by Teufel

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