Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
McTan

Citadel City

Recommended Posts

Or: Will All These Citadels Make EKs More Irrelevant?

Or: Why Should We Export To Build Our Fifth Large Castle?

 

I tried to bring this up in the temporary exchange thread.  It seems to me that a problem arises with the game if all these castles and citadels get to just be plopped down and made immune on Day 1 of Crowfall (I am going to assume that nothing of the scope of castles and citadels can be imported, so this will not be a problem in CWs).  I have a few questions related to this issue.

 

Say my guild has a good handful of citadels, castles & forts.  If we can erect them without resource costs because we have bought them from the store, why will my guild ever want to export from CWs?

 

As corollaries:

(1) What mechanisms are in place to make buying things from the store making it more likely and not less likely to engage the game?

(2) Will already-built structures have maintenance costs?  Will those costs be resources of qualities that are connected to the Store prices for buildings?

(3) Will non-bought structures be superior to bought structures (very unlikely given the Lego-build mechanics)?

 

tldr; I'm eager for the EK info drop, and frankly I think it needs to happen soon because it's such a big mechanic that the community needs to be able to chew on it and spit out the parts that stink.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I recall it, even walls and stuff from the store have to be 'build', so you actually have to put recources in them? Or am I wrong and we got new information?

 

And:

2) yes, you have to pay maintenance. Thats what the 'tax free' parcels are for: lowering the maintenance cost.

3) There will be no difference whatsoever? I thought. I mean, they told us that all buildings we can buy will be craftable, right?

Edited by Akineko

Let me sing you a song / Of a world that just vanished / Of a story that ended to soon
Let me bring you a cup / Make a toast to the living / And a toast to the legends we share

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm assumimg that buying directly from the store saves the time it would have taken to craft it, be does not exonerate you from upkeep costs. I'm also assuming that upkeep costs increase exponentially between strongholds.


giphy.gif

You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I recall it, even walls and stuff from the store have to be 'build', so you actually have to put recources in them? Or am I wrong and we got new information?

 

And:

2) yes, you have to pay maintenance. Thats what the 'tax free' parcels are for: lowering the maintenance cost.

3) There will be no difference whatsoever? I thought. I mean, they told us that all buildings we can buy will be craftable, right?

Thanks, I've been AFK for a few months so might not remember everything/know new updates.

 

That said, the language when buying structures from the store makes me infer that we get them in their entirety (not just blueprints or the like).

Do we know what the maintenance costs is?  Is it just silver (hope not)?  I'm sure there are disparate places where EKs have been mentioned, but it's been a really long time since we have gotten a more complete update of the changes and new developments.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

29.  IS THERE AN UPKEEP COST ON THE LAND OR BUILDINGS?

Buildings have a recurring maintenance cost. (We use the word “tax” because it’s easier to say than “recurring maintenance cost”.) The base cost is different for each type of building.

 

Stronghold parcels do not have a direct tax. Instead, they apply a multiplier to the building(s) placed on that land. Resource parcels that are adjacent to the stronghold have two effects. First, they increase the occupancy rate of the stronghold parcel: How many buildings can I place there? Second, they adjust the tax rate of the buildings placed in the stronghold parcel.

 

If your taxes fall into arrears, the buildings on the land will begin to degrade (but the parcel itself does not; for example, a Medium Keep parcel isn’t directly taxed, so it never downgrades.)

 

If a building fully degrades, it won’t disappear but instead goes to rank 0, the “Ruined” state. At that point, the building becomes unusable (and stops incurring additional taxes).

You only can repair and upgrade your buildings using in-game resources (i.e. the resources that come primarily from campaigns).

 

 

This FAQ Entry is a bit old, but it suggests that your buildings will degrade into ruins if you don't pay taxes on them. I suspect that there will be quite a few EKs filled with ruins. Hopefully ruins look cool.


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not totally sure.

It's not blueprints, I'd say.....maybe more like placing the construction sites, on which we have to work afterwards?

I think maintenance will be paid in ressources, like wood and stone to repair the walls. I really hope.


Let me sing you a song / Of a world that just vanished / Of a story that ended to soon
Let me bring you a cup / Make a toast to the living / And a toast to the legends we share

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the more interesting question is about why ACE renamed our KS "tax free" parcel to drop the "tax free" part without posting anything...

 

Are they going to abandon the tax free/maintenence cost model? Is it just another silent change...

 

I still doubt ACE knows what they intend with EKs yet... it's all pixel pipe dreams that they will firm up if they can get combat and CWs ironed out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the more interesting question is about why ACE renamed our KS "tax free" parcel to drop the "tax free" part without posting anything...

 

Are they going to abandon the tax free/maintenence cost model? Is it just another silent change...

 

I still doubt ACE knows what they intend with EKs yet... it's all pixel pipe dreams that they will firm up if they can get combat and CWs ironed out.

 

This is a large software development project, with many decisions made daily. They haven't got a team of lawyers to 'double check' everything they post or put on the website. They also can't  document every small change to the game or descriptions of items. Many of the changes people have noticed are probably just an oversight. If you are concerned email support and ask. I am sure they will be eager to answer your questions.

 

I still doubt ACE knows what they intend with EKs yet.

 

Absolutely,  the game design is still in progress, some features are still not fleshed out and other will be re-designed as new features change how they impact previous ones. This is software development things are fluid.....

Edited by Count_Dirkoff

o8WHnLc.png


THE most active European guild. Join us

now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the more interesting question is about why ACE renamed our KS "tax free" parcel to drop the "tax free" part without posting anything...

 

Are they going to abandon the tax free/maintenence cost model? Is it just another silent change...

 

I still doubt ACE knows what they intend with EKs yet... it's all pixel pipe dreams that they will firm up if they can get combat and CWs ironed out.

 

According to the current information we have, a "tax free" resource parcel makes no sense because there are no taxes on resource parcels.

 

Resource parcels are single and multi-cell parcels that players can drop around their stronghold parcels, to benefit that stronghold in some manner.  Resource parcels can increase the occupancy (i.e. the number of buildings) of the stronghold and, in some cases, can offset the tax (or maintenance) cost of the buildings placed on any adjacent stronghold parcels. Players will also be able to drop some props and decorative elements onto these areas, but they are not intended for building placement.

 

So these farmland parcels are likely to offset the taxes we owe on the buildings in adjacent parcels. They are more like "tax shelters."


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it has never bothered me that design ideas change.  I am simply saying that openness is good and significantly more efficient from an ideas crowd-sourcing perspective.  Otherwise developers propose solutions to problems that do not exist as well as build systems on shaky foundations.

 

I'm eager to hear more about the mechanics that make the game an MMO; combat is important but it is not everything.  If Crowfall wants to create an actual MMO as opposed to the recent facsimiles, they need to make great decisions on systems we have not heard many details about in over a year.  The CW/EK loop is so integral to the game but we have not been able to comment on it knowledgeably since the embargo update.

 

My perspective is simple: I have no doubt that any individual ACE developer far outstrips me in design know-how, I just also have no doubt that the community hive-mind has more processing power.  Part of the reason I have exited the forums recently is because we just have the same 15 conversations over and over with no more information.  More dialogue, please!

Edited by mctan

Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a large software development project, with many decisions made daily. They haven't got a team of lawyers to 'double check' everything they post or put on the website. They also can't  document every small change to the game or descriptions of items. Many of the changes people have noticed are probably just an oversight. If you are concerned email support and ask. I am sure they will be eager to answer your questions.

 

 

Absolutely,  the game design is still in progress, some features are still not fleshed out and other will be re-designed as new features change how they impact previous ones. This is software development things are fluid.....

 

So much for that QA milestone hire. j/k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course the system is in flux.  It should be.

 

For example: we recently moved from "pre-baked" strongholds to a modular system, where you can drop walls and towers and design your own castles.

 

That's a major change, and I make no apology for changing it.  It was the right decision for the game.

 

But when major changes happen, other systems will inevitably be affected.  And we really don't know the impact until we circle back around to those systems and re-examine the design in detail. 

 

Until that re-design happens, I don't like to talk about it.  I am very reluctant to just "wing it" on how those other systems will be affected, because I know anything I say will likely be changed or just wrong.  These systems are incredibly complex and deeply intertwined.  

 

The tax / maintenance system is a great example.  We've changed a LOT about how world construction works, which had a huge impact on EKs.  Some of that has settled; much of it has not. So, until we're ready, I don't want to talk about how and to what degree those system(s) may be affected.  

 

I can say this: we have two priories.  ONE, make the best game we can make. TWO, make sure the backers are happy with the decision to back us, and the rewards they received for their early faith in our project.  

 

The only reason priority ONE trumps priority TWO is because, without a great game, nothing we do to support priority TWO will ultimately matter.

 

So, all of that said:

 

- We haven't forgotten about any of your rewards,

- We aren't trying to "pull a fast one" and make changes on the sly hoping that no one notices.  (ha! like that would work.)

 

Sometimes, we will need to change the design to achieve goal ONE.  If those changes require us to shift (or obsolete) any of the rewards, we'll make good on it, so that we also achieve goal TWO.

 

Did that happen this time?  I don't know.  We haven't gotten back to that system yet.  We're too busy trying to solidify the world building design into a real system.

 

when I do know, I will tell you.  and if anything changes, we'll make good on it.

 

Todd

ACE


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

[Rules of Conduct]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello JTC,

 

Thanks for the post. We all relize that EKs are a very rough concept still. I think you may see a lot fewer of these threads questoning unannounced changes if you task your community management folks (maybe the new intern?) with simple updates for any backer reward change:

 

E.g. Hello Crows,

You may notice that the Imp. Papace description no longer says 25 parcels and now says 8. This was an error/change.

 

We plan a full update as things firm up down the road.

 

Or Hello Crows,

 

You may notice edits to your back rewards regarding tax free parcels. The system is in Flux and JTC will provide an update after the CW milestone is reached.

 

Two sentences of transparency from an intern saves everyone a lot of time.

Edited by angelmar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure that post was directed at my OP, but all-in-all I would just say some "What do you all think of this idea/impact?" News & Announcements would be great.  I honestly think we can help bring out the problems (many/all of which you all will certainly come up with when you circle back around).  I was literally thinking along the lines of: how can we help the team, rather than being overly critical.

 

I think the temporary exchange thing is great, frankly.  I just started circling back on EK/CW because, unlike all of you, I am not doing any programming :)


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good stuff.

 

I'm content to watch the design development continue along, understanding there will be changes from the initial vision rolled out during Kickstarter (every good design process has changes / improvements / corrections), and am confident you will continue to help us personalize our pledge packages to reflect that evolving vision.


rSHxVEY.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An additional interesting question mark is whether structures are affected by resource quality.  Does my large castle benefit from my using T6 vs. T4?  Can I improve it?  Seems to me the answer should be "yes" so that all these structures bought by real money encourage people to play the game (to make them better).

 

To start, I'd put the bought structures at T1 -T3 Small/Med/Large T4 Citadels, with the equivalent tier to maintain and higher tiers to upgrade.  Harder to maintain better buildings, and a way to make your buildings better than those belonging to a person who bought it on Day 1, logged in, plopped them down, joined a CW got ganked three times, and quit.

Edited by mctan

Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love it when Todd throws the smack down.

 

That said, it seemed mostly unrelated to the actual thread topic.  Things may have derailed, but I think the original post was very relevant.  I'd love to hear answers to those questions (when they are ready).  The dichotomy between EKs and CWs is at the conceptual heart of this game.  It's the reason we backed.  We all want to understand as many of the implications as possible.


Nazdar

Proud member of The Hunger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a fair answer. The only reason I'd like to know more is so that I can make an intelligent decision in the next few days about what to redeem and what not to redeem.

 

Absolutely! I completely agree.

 

I just hate giving answers that turn out to be wrong (and I feel waaaay out on a limb on some of this stuff already, thanks to the nature of crowdfunding, where you promise rewards long before a system is playable!)

 

If *I* was considering putting in money for a package or an asset, I would absolutely want that information, too.  Unfortunately, though, it isn't really settled yet.  

 

So, the way that I look at it:

 

- We are asking people to make a buying decision as a leap of faith,

- Since you are trusting us, you should be rewarded for that.  

- In this particular case, you're buying stuff at HUGE discount (up to 90% off retail in some cases!) 

 

Because you don't have all the data, we're giving you a crazy deal -- so that no matter how the data turns out, you're almost guaranteed to be happy with the purchase.  This is our way of recognizing (and rewarding) your trust, and shielding you against the inherent uncertainty.

 

Todd

ACE


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

[Rules of Conduct]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...