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Gender variations part 2 - Official discussion thread

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If it's any help, I like the male ranger better than the early concept art, but the female champion less so.  I know it's a tough balance and you just can't jack up the muscles on the female champ, but there is something off about the proportion of horned helms to shoulder width that bugs me.


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the female champion less so.  I know it's a tough balance and you just can't jack up the muscles on the female champ, but there is something off about the proportion of horned helms to shoulder width that bugs me.

 

I disagree, and she isn't that muscular. A lot more realistic than this real photo http://trending.report/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/73.jpg

Edited by Aguise

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why is there a stat for "damage bonus: males" then...............

 

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also............what applies to archetypes like myrm and stalker - "damage bonus: beast or humanoid"

Damn, damage bonus to males? Sounds like the feminists are going to love this game :D Edited by helix

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Damn, damage bonus to males? Sounds like the feminists are going to love this game :D

 

Equating feminism to misandry isn't the dumbest thing you've said, but that's not saying much.

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I disagree, and she isn't that muscular. A lot more realistic than this real photo http://trending.report/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/73.jpg

 

She still looks small; smaller than Brook Ence is too small for make believe:  http://www.girlswithmuscle.com/images/full/487682388.jpg

Edited by Kithslayer

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Quick thing i noticed when showing off some of the art t my guild members and I noticed when clicking on the male ranger concept art the female concept art comes up, tried in a few different browsers and what not. Just a quick glitch wanted to point out everything looks great :D 

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*Appropriateness* is always a euphemism for sexualization.

 

Sexualization is in the eye of the beholder - and whenever female outfits come up in games (both viretual and real world) its always an *appropriateness* discussion that centralizes around it.

I can point to Tera or womens olympic volleyball as examples of how this trancends the digital divide - but i think its important to add that women *earned* the right to play sports in bikinis.

 

*Context* is the sanity check for all wardrobe discussions: Most modern gym and athletics outfits are considered extremely skimpy by the standards of modern clothing - and Im sure there are plenty of venues dedicated to the ogling of scantily clad gymnasts -  but luckily an adolescent can wear the same leotard outfit as a professional athlete and participate in athletics events without parents screaming *child abuse* simply because *gymnastics* is a correct context that helps us maintain a rational non-sexualised perspective on said skimpy clothing.

 

I'm a big fan of a sanity check for all types of clothing options in game.

 

The context of *physical and especially athletic exertion* is: you need to wear light, minimal clothing and those you do wear should be streamlined and form fitting for purpose.

 

The context for *aesthetically pleasing clothing is* It should shape the body in a way that enhances the physical attributes of the person - especially physical grace and beauty.

 

With those two sanity checks in place, I hope we will see elegant, beautiful clothing choices that are not afraid to reveal feminine or masculine physical attributes, rather than having to wallow around in leathers and armours and full length cloth nunnery-style habits. So far everything I have seen in CF for fashion ingame, while decently designed, tells me the design direction is not applying much context beyond combat - which I think is a bit limiting.

 

Other contexts I would like to see:  Leadership? Diplomacy? Athleticism? Persuasion? Prayer? Sacrifice? Dark Arts? Trade? Crafting? Romance? Politics?

 

 

I also am a big fan in variation and choice for players - and in *Not* having my choices defined for me according to the limits of other people out-of-context.

 

 

I see over and over that people take the gender wardrobe discussion simply in terms of morality or sexuality without there being a context element.

I think that is is as much a diservice to gamers, and female gamers especially, as any alternative. *Playing it safe* and simply lumping all of the *context* under a simplistic *sexualized or non-sexualized* viewpoint is as wrong as chainmail bikinis.

 

But maybe this is a *scandinavian view.*

 

 

 

My gamers view - especially as a Roleplayer - is that I need as much variation as possible - so *for example* if I want to go swimming I dont need to wear plate armour for it. it would sink me. It would drown me. It would be incredibly uncomfortable.

I would therefore prefer to have a swimsuit option - even though I realise that that means a lot of players will be tempted to run around in swimsuits *cos boobies* and such.

 

Im using that as an extreme example of course - but hey -  If ever the swimming context comes up I expect to be able to hang at the beach in a two piece.

Edited by Deloria

www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

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Yeah, it would be very cool to have some RP outfits that we can get in the future, for ceremonies (RP only or not), for hanging out in the EKs that have no PvP enabled and for the lolz. Obviously, I don't think they should work on this right now, many more important things at stake. But maybe in late beta, when the combat gear looks and meta is already well defined and established, some "cosmetic" stuff could be added with different contexts in mind.


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Guild Leader/ High Elder

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I really like the gender designs so far. And you mention important points: conserving the style of the archetype whatever the gender, overall silhouette to make it recognizable at first glance, etc.

 

But what about the hit box size depending on the gender? The gender model being often smaller / slimmer for female than for male characters, will their hit box reflect that change too?

 

I would not like everyone picking on female characters for the only purpose of diminishing their hit box size. Granting them a slight advantage on the battlefield, but advantage anyway.

 

We saw it in way too many games, mostly FPS.

 

Bur CF focusing on an aiming system rather than a target-and-lock system, we better tackle this issue up front.

Edited by Eaden

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Well, so far hitboxes are inconsistent between archetypes. Duelists' hitboxes are smaller than Myrmidon hitboxes. So if the Female Champion has a smaller hitbox than a Male Champion, I doubt it'd effect gameplay a whole lot. Especially considering that the DMs for powers are pretty big.


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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So far everything I have seen in CF for fashion ingame, while decently designed, tells me the design direction is not applying much context beyond combat - which I think is a bit limiting.

 

Other contexts I would like to see:  Leadership? Diplomacy? Athleticism? Persuasion? Prayer? Sacrifice? Dark Arts? Trade? Crafting? Romance? Politics?

 

 

I also am a big fan in variation and choice for players - and in *Not* having my choices defined for me according to the limits of other people out-of-context.

 

Pretty much all we are testing, and all we will be testing in the near future is combat, so it makes sense for the concepts to be focused on that.  Each archetype needs 4 distinct visual looks (cloth, leather, scale, plate), for the base functionality of the game systems, so that is a lot of artwork that needs to be done, which leaves less resources for other contexts.  

 

Also, I don't really see this game as having the context of "relaxing on the beach in a two-piece".  We certainly can have non-combat options, but they are very far down the priority list when compared to other art assets.

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I like how bulky the female Champion is.

Thou she could stand to be even more muscular, namely in the legs.

The concept piece didn't really define the thigh muscles.  Hope this will be refined further before the 3d model.

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