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My greatest fear!


Lordtweedz
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So, i think most of us can agree, that Crowfall got a lot of stuff going in the right direction.

One of the things that are most important for me in games, may that be MMorpgs, Strategy games or whatever.

Is that feeling of fluent motions, animations and a fast paced combat system. That just works, and just feels right. The games that really did that well for me, was GW2, Wow, Starcraft2, LoL ( yea i know X.x ) and a few others.

Point is that im a bit afraid, that Crowfalls animations/combat system will not get me that feeling. Since i am not that impressed with what i've seen so far, i know it's still Alpha, and most games dosn't even show how they look this early... but still...

 

What do you guys think?

Am i worrying without a course ?

 

 

-Tweedz

Thy lord is 'er!

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We're not even in Alpha yet, still Pre-Alpha. I think you mention a good point- that games don't even usually let us see what they're like this early. Perhaps if they did even the games you've associated great combat systems would feel the same :P. In my experience testing the combat has gotten better and admittedly that's been a relatively short amount of time. I've seen them incorporate feedback and run meaningful tests to continue to improve the system. 

Even if the testing starts gearing towards another aspect of the game (EKs?) they aren't going to bench combat and call it done. I'm sure it will be something that continues to be improved and tweaked until release or close to.


Don't throw in the towel yet :)

Of the Hawk People

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We're not even in Alpha yet, still Pre-Alpha. I think you mention a good point- that games don't even usually let us see what they're like this early. Perhaps if they did even the games you've associated great combat systems would feel the same :P. In my experience testing the combat has gotten better and admittedly that's been a relatively short amount of time. I've seen them incorporate feedback and run meaningful tests to continue to improve the system. 

 

Even if the testing starts gearing towards another aspect of the game (EKs?) they aren't going to bench combat and call it done. I'm sure it will be something that continues to be improved and tweaked until release or close to.

 

 

Don't throw in the towel yet :)

 

Sure we are still in "Pre-Alpha", but OP has a valid point. Combat has been worked on for over a year and it still feels clunky. They seem to be addressing some of the FPS issues but lets face it, progress has been slow. It is easy to say that we are only in pre-alpha but at the same time we are also only a couple months away from what was supposed to be release. 

 

Yes it is a small studio, yes its a small team, yes they are experienced, yes to all of the other good things that we want hold up to combat the naysayers, but we do have to acknowledge where the game is now compared to the expectations of those same developers. Yes, we know that building a MMO is a complex and that bumps in the road are bound to happen, but that does not mean we have to give a free pass to the devs when valid concerns pop up. 

 

We know that the devs will release the game when its ready, sort of (soft launch), but it does not excuse the fact that combat even with limited combatants involved does not appear to have progressed as much as many would have liked. Let us not forget that the original hunger dome was released a year ago, and while progress has been made, it appears the devs are still designing combat not just polishing it.

 

The pace at which new archteypes are coming online has increased significantly, and with each new archetype they seem to play better and better, but we have yet to see anything in game as it relates to either disciplines or promotions. We have seen placeholders for promotion classes but that was very generic, typically along the lines of offense/balance/defense or ranged/balance/melee etc.  

 

Considering the season that we are in now, lets hope that ACE has one hell of an October surprise for us.

Edited by Verot
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In a perfect world I would believe that the devs want to have a spit-polished game that releases exactly on the day that they originally stated. This wouldn't be the first time that a small development company had to push back a date in order to finish things up ... and I would prefer that to releasing the game on schedule without these performance / gameplay tweaks which could spell disaster for Crowfall.

 

I know it's difficult because we're all excited to play ... but we need to bring up our valid concerns while at the same time having a huge amount of patience. I'd rather not see people start abandoning the project before it enters it's actual Alpha stages.

 

That being said, the devs need to step it up. If they released more information about the other systems and more screenshots, etc ... we would have more things to talk about other than combat systems. It's kinda like we've all decided to go to dinner, placed our order for a great meal, and have been handed our breadsticks ... and then another round of breadsticks ... and here's some dipping sauce.

 

Bring on the meat and potatoes! :)

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I know this is Pre Alpha but, with that said only thing we really have seen "tested" is player combat . While that is with out a doubt the most important part Ia m starting to worry.. They said persistent soft release earliest end 2016 - 2017 . With what  I have tested and seen this game is no where close to ready . We don't even have all the arch types in not even half of them. Yes they are working diligently but if things don't start speeding up we will be still waiting for this game in 2018 .We all have backed and donated .. So my biggest fear is them pushing the game back a few years. I have faith in them to create a good game its just a matter of HOW LONG  it will take them...

Edited by dolmar
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I know this is Pre Alpha but, with that said only thing we really have seen "tested" is player combat . While that is with out a doubt the most important part Ia m starting to worry.. They said persistent soft release earliest end 2016 - 2017 . With what  I have tested and seen this game is no where close to ready . We don't even have all the arch types in not even half of them. Yes they are working diligently but if things don't start speeding up we will be still waiting for this game in 2018 .We all have backed and donated .. So my biggest fear is them pushing the game back a few years. I have faith in them to create a good game its just a matter of HOW LONG  it will take them...

Yeah, combat has taken a significant amount of time and resources and they ARE still fine tuning it. I'm glad they didn't decide to just write it off and be done- them still working on it is hopeful to me. We've backed, we've invested- from what I've seen, personally, is the return on that investment will be a game worthy of it.

 

I suppose so far the general consensus of the thread is wanting more information, screenshots, peeks.. Less breadsticks :P (although lets be honest, breadsticks are bomb)

Of the Hawk People

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I suppose so far the general consensus of the thread is wanting more information, screenshots, peeks.. Less breadsticks :P (although lets be honest, breadsticks are bomb)

 

Well, to be honest. i just feel like combat/animations is such a core thing. that is currently my biggest worry. Its like mating, it needs to feel right... or something.. Anyways.. Yayh for Breadsticks!

Thy lord is 'er!

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Well, to be honest. i just feel like combat/animations is such a core thing. that is currently my biggest worry. Its like mating, it needs to feel right... or something.. Anyways.. Yayh for Breadsticks!

No one is disagreeing with you- both on combat being pivotal or mating feeling right.... right? 

Of the Hawk People

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Well, to be honest. i just feel like combat/animations is such a core thing. that is currently my biggest worry. Its like mating, it needs to feel right... or something.. Anyways.. Yayh for Breadsticks!

ACE thinks the same, check their Q&As. That's the reason the began doing combat from the beginning of the development and never stopped working on it.

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ACE thinks the same, check their Q&As. That's the reason the began doing combat from the beginning of the development and never stopped working on it.

But how does he feel about doing the boogie, breadsticks and such?

Im sure they are aware of how important it is, but im still a bit worried. even if it might be without any real reason, Hopefully they'll just update mechanics and animations at some point

Thy lord is 'er!

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I am pretty sure everyone agrees.

 

We are all glad that ACE is still improving the combat system, but as we get closer to the "soft launch" most of us are scratching our heads wondering which path ACE should take.

 

As a consumer wanting to play a full release of CF we want that soft launch to come already, but we all have nightmares from past MMO (or any game) that released too early or did "open betas" with flaws to core components within the game.

 

As much as I want to play CF asap, I would rather them push back the soft launch or open beta date until the game more accurately reflects the product they envisioned for CF launch.

Yea, it's a longer wait for us, but most people who are going to play the open beta / soft launch are players who haven't followed the game as closely as us nor invested RL resources.  What will their impressions be if the game is not ready?

Like most games, they will likely play for a few weeks then leave.  I don't want that.  CF needs to retain as many players, new and old, for as long as possible.

This is many of our "last hope" for MMOs.  If it takes a bit more time, do it.  But make sure you're completely transparent to both the backers and the rest of the public.  The rest of the public likely wont care too much since, as stated before, they have invested little to nothing in CF so far.

 

There's really only one shot to get it right.

 

-fuzz

MC5A65T.jpg


#donteventrip [det] - 1.2 counter-strike OG - SugoiAnime-Planet stats

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Well, to be honest. i just feel like combat/animations is such a core thing. that is currently my biggest worry. Its like mating, it needs to feel right... or something.. Anyways.. Yayh for Breadsticks!

 

Mating. Breadsticks.... I think you're into some weird fetishes. ;)

 

Glad to see we can all agree on one thing though : the developers owe us breadsticks as compensation if they miss their soft launch date.

 

PS: I prefer garlic butter dipping sauce.

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Sure waiting til its right is one thing, but eventually money becomes an issue. At what point does ACE begin to have funding issues?

 

Well hopefully they'll skip a campaign mode instead of saving on core mechanics, animation or such...

Thy lord is 'er!

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Sure waiting til its right is one thing, but eventually money becomes an issue. At what point does ACE begin to have funding issues?

 

Definitely a valid point.  They should have a worst case and best case scenario in place.

 

-fuzz

MC5A65T.jpg


#donteventrip [det] - 1.2 counter-strike OG - SugoiAnime-Planet stats

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Definitely a valid point.  They should have a worst case and best case scenario in place.

 

-fuzz

 

Just dont cut in the main game, base stuff such as animations, actual gameplay ect. Is just needed, they can always add more campaigns and such. just get  get the good basesystems going. Get a good feeling, all that jazz....conclusion, More monies for ACE!

Thy lord is 'er!

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So, i think most of us can agree, that Crowfall got a lot of stuff going in the right direction.

One of the things that are most important for me in games, may that be MMorpgs, Strategy games or whatever.

Is that feeling of fluent motions, animations and a fast paced combat system. That just works, and just feels right. The games that really did that well for me, was GW2, Wow, Starcraft2, LoL ( yea i know X.x ) and a few others.

Point is that im a bit afraid, that Crowfalls animations/combat system will not get me that feeling. Since i am not that impressed with what i've seen so far, i know it's still Alpha, and most games dosn't even show how they look this early... but still...

 

What do you guys think?

Am i worrying without a course ?

 

 

-Tweedz

 

GW2 animation and particle effects are so over the top that it actually destroyed their game. Frame rate drops to server lag, world bosses may as while be giant pile of super novas.

 

Honestly they need to be careful to much can be a bad thing.

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Sure we are still in "Pre-Alpha", but OP has a valid point. Combat has been worked on for over a year and it still feels clunky. They seem to be addressing some of the FPS issues but lets face it, progress has been slow. It is easy to say that we are only in pre-alpha but at the same time we are also only a couple months away from what was supposed to be release. 

 

Yes it is a small studio, yes its a small team, yes they are experienced, yes to all of the other good things that we want hold up to combat the naysayers, but we do have to acknowledge where the game is now compared to the expectations of those same developers. Yes, we know that building a MMO is a complex and that bumps in the road are bound to happen, but that does not mean we have to give a free pass to the devs when valid concerns pop up. 

 

We know that the devs will release the game when its ready, sort of (soft launch), but it does not excuse the fact that combat even with limited combatants involved does not appear to have progressed as much as many would have liked. Let us not forget that the original hunger dome was released a year ago, and while progress has been made, it appears the devs are still designing combat not just polishing it.

 

The pace at which new archteypes are coming online has increased significantly, and with each new archetype they seem to play better and better, but we have yet to see anything in game as it relates to either disciplines or promotions. We have seen placeholders for promotion classes but that was very generic, typically along the lines of offense/balance/defense or ranged/balance/melee etc.  

 

Considering the season that we are in now, lets hope that ACE has one hell of an October surprise for us.

 

Yes, none of that is an excuse for a clunky combat system, but it is, I'll repeat for emphasis, in Pre-Alpha testing. They're still getting the foundation of the game made, and once the foundation is there with all the balancing and mechanics coded, then they can focus on polishing the animations and effects and responsiveness for smoother combat.

 

I'll probably start worrying in Beta Testing, but I don't feel the need to give it much thought at the moment, so long as ACE continues to work on it, which they've said they are.

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Yes, none of that is an excuse for a clunky combat system, but it is, I'll repeat for emphasis, in Pre-Alpha testing. They're still getting the foundation of the game made, and once the foundation is there with all the balancing and mechanics coded, then they can focus on polishing the animations and effects and responsiveness for smoother combat.

 

I'll probably start worrying in Beta Testing, but I don't feel the need to give it much thought at the moment, so long as ACE continues to work on it, which they've said they are.

 

Pre-Alpha seems to mean Work in Progress, at least that is my interpretation of the not so defined definition the devs gave a while back. As they could keep the label for years to come, it doesn't excuse away valid concerns or mean a whole lot.

 

They've been focused on combat for a good while now and despite all the testing, feedback, and even looking at the dev's own vision of what it should be (FAQ), doesn't seem like a whole lot has happened.

 

While I've seen folks call it clunky (myself included) and voice opinions on how it could be improved, fact remains that we aren't making the game.

 

Given enough time/money, something will be released, what that looks like is dependent on the people creating it. Devs are limited by their own talent and experience.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, the team doesn't have a huge modern "action combat" background. Blair who I assume has a decent say in development comes from EQ, SWG, and DCUO. Todd from Shadowbane and the 101s.

 

Watching a few DCUO videos, I get the impression that it's combat design influenced CF's either intentionally or not. Comparing CF's combat to it is a lot easier than pretty much any other relatively recent mmo, even Wildstar which they named at the start.

 

Obviously the devs have played the same games we have and know what people enjoy these days, but they still have to make it fit their vision and within their own limitations.

 

They've made changes and the recent archetypes further this progress, but with time ticking and all the other systems to be created, tested, polished, etc at some point combat is going to have to take a step back and it will be what it is until further focus can happen.

 

Will it be at a point that pleases enough by then? I don't believe any of us, including the devs, can say.

 

Calling it Alpha, Beta, Launch ready won't magically change combat. Having finished crafting, building, skill tress that look/work great won't. Optimization allowing decent FPS and actual player interaction on the mmo level (more than a handful on screen) won't. Yadda yadda yadda.

 

I believe the OP's concern is still very valid, regardless of the development stage label. Sadly, there isn't an easy answer beyond wait and see and hope for it to end up somewhere in a state that is enjoyable for most of us.

 

My hope is that as they complete the remaining archetypes, develop other features that will build upon combat (promo classes, disciplines/runes) and we actually get access to character building beyond the bare minimum, things might look different without having to drastically change combat itself. Simply having a full ability bar and other things to work with might make it all come together. I don't foresee things magically turning into X or Y game.

 

Crowfall will have it's own combat system for better or worse, like every other game. Hopefully they make enough passes that the end result is at least top quality for what it is supposed to be, rather then what some want it to be.

Edited by APE

 


 

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