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bahamutkaiser

So... how's that Friendly Fire going?

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I think the point Coolwaters was trying to make to Ziz was that Free For All =/= Friendly Fire.

 

While, yes, you can hit you "allies" in a FFA environment, the game would basically just be categorizing your "allies" as enemies, not really allowing friendlies to be hit by your attacks (Though, I guess they are similar in a sense)

 

 

To my knowledge, mostly FPS's and Medieval combat simulators have FF; and in those games you have precise aiming. Crowfall's aiming isn't precise. What's ever is inside the DM when the attack goes off, will be hit by that attack, no exception. So, in that sense, it would make combat unfun, because "why is my char dumb enough to hit his allies while smacking this zombie   

Seems like semantics to me. We'll be able to form guilds and make groups in the Dregs and its listed as "FFA". So yeah FFA with guilds, groups pretty much is the same thing as FF. Seems like some are just being a bit nitpicky.

 

But yeah put me in the side as well that is mostly apathetic to FF. If it works and improves the game then great, if its not in game then great as well. One single feature won't make or break the combat system as a whole. If the combat isn't good enough its on the overall design not whether or not you can hit your buddys or not.

Edited by pang

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Dregs = Free for All

The Shadows = Guild vs Guild

 

That was the original ACE vision in the KS campaign @Coolwaters. 

 

And since May 2016 @Todd need to mix both Free for All and the guild vs guild in the same setting, and that is unfortunate for those players without guilds who just play for fun. And some players would enjoy the thought playing the Dregs on similar playing field, and not against huge coordinates guilds including player created alliances - that is a huge difference in play style.

But to deny that vision didn`t exist or never happen is nonsense when the KS started. 

ACE was aware of Dregs setting and should adjust their combat system accordingly, and it`s never too late to adjust some powers even though they excluded the Shadows campaign recently in May if they are final on that decision, and who knows..

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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Dregs = Free for All
The Shadows = Guild vs Guild
 
That was the original ACE vision in the KS campaign @Coolwaters. 
 
And since May 2016 @Todd need to mix both Free for All and the guild vs guild in the same setting, and that is unfortunate for those players without guilds who just play for fun. And some players would enjoy the thought playing the Dregs on similar playing field, and not against huge coordinates guilds including player created alliances - that is a huge difference in play style.
But to deny that vision didn`t exist or never happen is nonsense when the KS started. 
ACE were aware of Dregs setting and should adjust their combat system accordingly, and it`s never too late to adjust some powers even though they excluded the Shadows campaign recently in May if they are final on that decision, and who knows..

 

 

I don't really see a problem with Shadows/Dregs being merged because the Dregs were essentially going to be Guild vs Guild anyway at least until the point that no other guilds were left standing. Also, how would you score the dregs if it was everyone for themselves? Last hit? Most heals? Most Damage? At no point did they ever say that the dregs would be single elimination, but I suppose that could be a possibility. We all know that the Dregs were going to be dominated by a guild/alliance up until a certain point so why spend resources developing multiple bands when they both essentially do the same thing. 

 

Also with the ability to alter rules for any CW they can also modify later versions for CW to allow for more FFA type activity.

Edited by Verot

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And last I checked you was asking to join Valor and LotD guild @Verot. And who are you trying to convince - those solo players without guilds?

It`s obvious to me when ACE combine those two settings - they force the lone wolf players and others who enjoy that aspect of gameplay

to join a guild to be competitive in the same campaign when they are combined.

 

Try to play that setting solo without a guild @Verot, and let`s see if you`ve a similar opinion in that campaign - it`s certainly not the same thing if you played Shadowbane - it`s a huge difference in play style with couple of friends compare to a large guild. 


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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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Realistically, solo play is not going to happen in a competitive full loot scenario. People will band up no matter what to avoid losing stuff. And people that belong to guilds will not abandon their guilds in order to follow the Dregs ruleset. So this merge was kind of predetermined.

Edited by rajah

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And last I checked you was asking to join Valor and LotD guild @Verot. And who are you trying to convince - those solo players without guilds?

It`s obvious to me when ACE combine those two settings - they force the lone wolf players and others who enjoy that aspect of gameplay

to join a guild to be competitive in the same campaign when they are combined.

 

Try to play that setting solo without a guild @Verot, and let`s see if you`ve a similar opinion in that campaign - it`s certainly not the same thing if you played Shadowbane - it`s a huge difference in play style with couple of friends compare to a large guild. 

The Dregs was always going to be guild based as well, that was the point. Solo players need to adapt to the environment, can't expect the environment to be adapted to you.

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If you can't attack everyone it is not FFA.  FFA means you can damage anyone.

The same vague definition holds true for Friendly Fire as well though. If we can group/guild up in Dregs and its FFA then whats the real difference?

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TL;DR:

 

1. It's okay to disagree as long as you're supporting ACE.

 

2. Don't disagree with anyone supporting ACE. They'll get triggered.

 

3. The sky is falling.

 

4. They didn't promise us anything, but if you think they did Coolwaters will hate you.

 

5. Someone took the skill ceiling bait.

 

6. There's six definitions of "free for all", five of which have nothing to do with free for all.

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Dregs = Free for All
The Shadows = Guild vs Guild
 
That was the original ACE vision in the KS campaign @Coolwaters. 
 
And since May 2016 @Todd need to mix both Free for All and the guild vs guild in the same setting, and that is unfortunate for those players without guilds who just play for fun. And some players would enjoy the thought playing the Dregs on similar playing field, and not against huge coordinates guilds including player created alliances - that is a huge difference in play style.
But to deny that vision didn`t exist or never happen is nonsense when the KS started. 
ACE was aware of Dregs setting and should adjust their combat system accordingly, and it`s never too late to adjust some powers even though they excluded the Shadows campaign recently in May if they are final on that decision, and who knows..

 

When I first heard about Free for All in the dregs, I never even thought it would be a lone wolf, or solo experience.  My first thought was, here is a guild vs guild campaign where we will be able to kill other guildies not immediately in our group.

 

We already have friendly fire in the game, but it seems not to the degree that some players want.  Currently we can fire at/damage anyone that is not in our group.  If there are 2 groups each of Sugoi or -W- running they could fire on their own guildmates who are not in their immediate group.  This issue of friendly fire has more to do with groups; and yes I'm being captain obvious, because I feel some have missed the bigger picture that in other games you can only attack someone from another faction (i.e. horde/alliance).

 

The outer band campaigns should be limiting attacks based on factions, which is predetermined on the code side.  What the dregs gives us is no coded factions, hence the Free for All.  The dregs was never going to be solo though, and while in the dregs, guilds that field 40 to 50 players of 10 each (so 4-5 groups) they will have to watch out for hitting their own guild mates.

 

It would be my preference that we had friendly fire within groups, but I'm not going to be distraught if their is no "group" friendly fire.  I think back about the sentinel and neph lock in Shadowbane.  The neph lock had a group friendly AoE, but it would hurt anyone not in the group, even other guild members.  The sentinel on the other hand had big bomb which was not group friendly, and if you missed the timing on it's cast you could kill your own group.

 

I think the big difference between the dregs and shadows rule set will be that we can't even attack our own guildmates in the shadows, while in the dregs the coded restriction will be at the group level.

Edited by Teufel

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The same vague definition holds true for Friendly Fire as well though. If we can group/guild up in Dregs and its FFA then whats the real difference?

It's not vague, free for all means anyone can attack anyone.  Nothing vague about it.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I just pooped, thought I'd share since it smells and looks a lot like this thread.

Did you actually put the screen with this thread next to the pile in the bushes and compare ? Or you had to memorize the looks of it first ? Or you shat right near your pc ? :D

Edited by rajah

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TL;DR:

 

1. It's okay to disagree as long as you're supporting ACE.

 

2. Don't disagree with anyone supporting ACE. They'll get triggered.

 

3. The sky is falling.

 

4. They didn't promise us anything, but if you think they did Coolwaters will hate you.

 

5. Someone took the skill ceiling bait.

 

6. There's six definitions of "free for all", five of which have nothing to do with free for all.

 

and

 

7. headlight isn't planning on playing Crowfall, hates the game and only stays here to provoke unnecessary banter in the community.

 

Carry on my wayward son.

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I won't go into whether or not friendly-fire was promised, or what it does of does not add to the game, but I will suggest some ways it could be implemented into the current combat model.  Just suggestions, because some people are seeing it as all or nothing, and turning FF on without some way to mitigate the ensuing chaos would most likely break combat, more than it already is. 

 

Ideas:

  • Allow casters to place a buff onto a fixed number of targets that would make those targets immune from the caster's own elemental damage.  The buffs would be fixed in duration but persist through target's death, but not the caster's.  They would be cancelable by either the caster or the target, but would have a resource upkeep cost to maintain.
  • For melees, I think that friendly targets should not be immune to physics abilities and effects (knock downs/backs), but should take reduced or perhaps no damage. Melees could have abilities like "Weapon Reach", that creates a bubble around their character, warning party members when they're at risk, of taking FF. 
  • When they absolutely have to fire into a crowd, ranged characters could have a short duration self-buff, named something like "Called Shot", that allows their projectiles to ricochet of friendly targets (party members) and continue on at a slightly different angle.  Perhaps the friendly takes a small percent damage and the intended target takes something less than full damage.
  • Create skills or disciplines, that players can train to decrease the damage they do to friendly targets.
  • Abilities like these, would still require player agency to prevent the negative effects of FF, while providing a softening to the unavoidable chaos that would be full-time, full damage, friendly-fire.

Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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and

 

7. headlight isn't planning on playing Crowfall, hates the game and only stays here to provoke unnecessary banter in the community.

 

Carry on my wayward son.

 

Player, I have many fans. You have even bothered answering me on both of your accounts, I'm so important to you. However, I wish you would keep the thread on topic and contribute to the discussion. You're contributing unnecessary banter in the community.

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How about answering the question though..

 

Whats the difference between FFA with guilds, groups and Friendly Fire.

FFA has no friendlies... you can decide someone is a friendly by not attacking them, but FFA doesn't magically make them friendly. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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FFA has no friendlies... you can decide someone is a friendly by not attacking them, but FFA doesn't magically make them friendly. 

Ok good, but the Dregs is labeled as FFA and we also know there will in fact be friendlies ie guild affiliations and groups.

 

So the point I was trying to get at was how does the way in which the Dregs appears to be setup differ from actual FF? So is the Dregs actually mislabeled as FFA when it should be FF?

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