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So... how's that Friendly Fire going?


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ACE reads everything. There is no escape. 

Well, tbh investing heavily in to indie game development in any form, was a high risk undertaking from the start. Chances are 99 to 1, ACE currently does not have enough resources to commit to complet

This thread, like a lot of others, is pure speculation from players about what they imagine FF to be / not be. And it has a lot of the characteristics of other threads demanding gameplay features.  

Reading. It's fundamental.

 

Quote and link please. We need context, date, etc. For example, was that from the KS? Is that quote the reason you backed the game? Is that what you're saying? Or are you perhaps taking a quote out of context? Maybe reading it to support an agenda in a less than honest way?

 

http://crowfall.com/en/faq/physics/#14

 

I get it, wherever oossible means "no".

 
Doesn't necessarily mean no either
Edited by coolster50

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"wherever possible" doesn't necessarily mean yes.

 

Really? The quote clearly implies that friendly fire would be there in the majority of the worlds, or at least in some (if things didn't turn out as they expected).

ACE has never really stated things more clearly than that, so if they really remove friendly fire we can expect them to remove basically anything else they want. Which isn't bad per se, but if we want to define what they promised and what they did not, friendly fire clearly fits in the first subset.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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This thread o.O

 

 

The devs have said FF is in.

They have said it needs to be balanced and tested and they have ideas for that and will balance and test it when the time comes (obviously as part of their development plan).

They have said that if FF proves *extremely difficult* to balance in some realms they might disable it there.

 

This is a PRETTY CLEAR and very reasonable position which should satisfy both those who want FF and those that don't.

 

They dont need to state any more than this - and they definitely dont need to commit to or promise anyone any more than this until said testing has been done - which they are perfectly entitled to do in their own time and way.

 

The fact we are currently in alpha testing and FF isn't yet testable doesnt mean the world is going to fail or that anyone lied about FF: it simply means its not ready to be tested yet.

 

Going here we see that already they are probably overloaded with feedback and bugs about the features that ARE being tested already. What arrogance it would be of a player to rage that the devs arent testing a feature that *they* want - versus running their own test plan.

 

This rage thread became so very much more to do with unreasonable expectations and self-entitlement than anything else. 

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15. DOES THAT MEAN THAT I CAN BE HIT BY FRIENDLY FIRE?

Wherever possible, yes -- but we have to make sure that this is balanced. Some rules sets (like the infected worlds, which are Faction based) divide players automatically into teams. We have to make sure that players can't join teams specifically to take advantage of friendly fire to grief their own "teammates."

 

Our plan is to try and apply debuffs to players for doing damage to or killing their teammates (the gods curse you for your incompetence). If this proves not to be a good enough deterrent, however, we may have to turn friendly fire off for particular Campaign worlds.

So this one paragraph, in a FAQ about Physics, from waaaay after KS, is the great broken promise that tricked you fellas into backing CF eh?

 

You poor things. Life is going to be rough for you. 

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The devs have said FF is in.

 

You clearly haven't read what Caenth said in his first post here. Anyhow, be back later.

I dont need to. The devs told me themselves here.

 

15. DOES THAT MEAN THAT I CAN BE HIT BY FRIENDLY FIRE?

Wherever possible, yes

 

Until that gets updated Im gonna sit and wait and not worry about private conversations Im not a party to.

Edited by Deloria

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I'm 'ard, I must have FF or else.

 

You guys need to get over your self.

 

FF won't increase the skill ceiling it will just be a total mess and not much fun with this combat system.

 

It's not about wanting a carebear game but wanting a fun pvp MMO that needs tactical as well as strategic skills to be successful.

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I think it's only the very few, very loud players who enjoyed the monkey-simple mess that Darkfall sieging was who will be disappointed. I think there will be lots of FF in various settings and applications in CF.

 

I don't think much of it will be DF style "pure" FF, and I think that is and has been obvious for a long, long time. I think the quote is actually a fairly spot on projection of where we'll end up. I don't read that to mean all FF all the time, at all.

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Really? The quote clearly implies that friendly fire would be there in the majority of the worlds, or at least in some (if things didn't turn out as they expected).

ACE has never really stated things more clearly than that, so if they really remove friendly fire we can expect them to remove basically anything else they want. Which isn't bad per se, but if we want to define what they promised and what they did not, friendly fire clearly fits in the first subset.

 

If FF is not possible anywhere, then there won't be FF. -\^-_-^/-

Edited by coolster50

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FF and current Crowfall combat are incompatible imo. told as veteran player of full loot, FF, nontarget games.

Why? Check out range hit register, aoe (both melee and range) and combat mechanics (currently it is not so easy to control character)

Also it will be unfair for healing mechanic. With FF rules in theory everyone can take druid's orbs (even enemy) and lego's ultimate should work on who is closer, even on enemy.

 

BUT if there will be alot of zerg issues in CF, it will be not bad to enable FF rules. zerg will eat self

Edited by makkon

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I dont believe in the vocal minority thing. I think every idea should be judged on its own merits. 

 

Friendly Fire seems like a good idea. Having it in the Dregs seems like a good idea. Making sure its balanced seems like a good idea.

 

Waiting for the devs to introduce it for testing according to their own test plans seems like a good idea.

 

Testing it before critcising the devs for failing to implement it properly seems like a good idea.

 

Waiting for all of that to happen before using the forums to proclaim how the game is doomed if this feature isnt implemented according to a players personal preferences seems like a good idea.

 

There are many who share similar view as me especially in the KGB guild, and some are worried about hit detection, while others are more concerned about the CF game design. @Deloria. 

And it`s wonderful that we`ve a forum so we can discuss and express our opinions about the game development or lack there of like friendly fire in action.. And based on certain archetypes like myrmidon I felt it had some ackward design powers related to the FF topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBGA_K9XHrY

And most of us who use this forum at the moment are part of that vocal minority by the word definition if you compare it to the total amount of CF members - Crows:138,586 members.  :)

 

I`m just concerned about certain design powers on the archetypes to be specific on the Mymidon and in details whirlwind & raging bull C power in connection with such hostile environment like the Dregs and FF enabled. So I guess that someone who started this topic would enjoy reading other concerns and thoughts about it as well. Hopefully it works out and it looks fun, but I am eager to test it out in Dreg FF environment, and to be honest I hope ACE approached it differently almost 1 year into the development.  

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You clearly haven't read what Caenth said in his first post here. Anyhow, be back later.

 

I never said it wouldn't be in. Read my post again when you're back.

 

 

Edit: This thread is the pinnacle of why they don't or stopped telling us things about features that aren't set in stone yet. People go apepoorly made socks once that one feature doesn't make it, or simply twist words into something they want to happen.

 

I regret telling you folks. I should have kept my mouth shut. Lesson learned I guess.

Edited by Caenth

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Mythx I think you state your concerns very reasonably - and I think reasoned discussion is great: Its nice to get other players opinions and probably a really good way for the devs to see what people are thinking about. I don't think anyone has a problem with the idea of an open discussion like that :) 

 

My posts were more in response to the whole "omg the games gonna die if the devs dont do wut we say" approach that other posters are working themselves into a frenzy over.

 

This thread is one of many like that: Any time a certain subset of players don't get their immediate way it becomes a ragefest with rather shocking saltiness over the tiniest things - usually gameplay elements that havent even been put into testing yet or are just being tried out.

Edited by Deloria

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It's been very obvious since the very first Crowfall Pre-Alpha test that full blown friendly fire just wasn't going to be feasable or fun with their current combat model. Group based immunity could still work with maxing out party sizes at 5. This would nerf the zerg and make it to where people would still have to worry about friendly fire in bigger fights but not require an unrealistic degree of precision in an MMO which has lots of lag and lag compensation with people playing everywhere in the world.

 

The friendly fire question was the only one they didn't answer on the AMA. It was a popular question and they intentionally avoided it for good reason...it's just not going to happen. I really think some of the full friendly fire people are a bit delusional at this point thinking the game is being designed around it. I honestly think the people advocating for friendly fire aren't playing the tests and don't understand how many lag compensation tricks are used in MMOs that make your attacks significantly larger than they appear to compensate for latency.

 

I wouldn't mind trying group based immunity but full FF would be a disaster. Fully expecting a legion of delusional morons who never play the tests to attack this post saying I'm bad or whatever.

 

Accept the reality that friendly fire is either not going to be a part of this game or is going to play a very minor role.

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Let's just make sure there isn't too much friendly fire in this thread.  Let's make it friendly inspire.

 

Edit:  Also, I don't know what kind of ffa pvpers we think we have here, but it isn't true FFA pvp if magical grouping friendly protection exists. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

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The fact we're still talking about this shirt x months later is a clear indicator of what the devs want in their game. FF worked in DFO because the combat model was built around it (everyone being able to use range, melees shifting stances, projectile drop so you weren't forced to blast through your teammates, plentiful and fairly easy to apply healing to bounce back from FF mistakes).

CF doesn't have any of these attributes. In fact it might make playing certain archetypes incredibly difficult to the point of not fun.

If FF makes the game "not fun" I'm not for it.

I also don't understand the whole "FF is anti-Zerg"; FF is anti ball up and stand in one place. It might give you some additional combat decisions to make but it won't secure you victories if you're 10 dudes getting wrecked by 50, unless they have subhuman intelligence. C'mon now.

The only form of FF we'll get will be highly situational and watered down (if even).

Edited by helix
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Lol. So These guys are:

  1. Literally making poorly made socks up about some "promise" that tricked them into backing the game
  2. Refuse to provide an imaginary quote / link to the imaginary promise
  3. Continue to allude to the vague (imaginary) poorly made socks they made up whole they spew very real vitriol bordering on defamation at the devs for breaking the imaginary promise

Got it. /thread

 

 

I thought the answer was clear, but in case it was not:

 

We WANT to make FF work. And we are willing to try find ways to make it work, for all servers.

 

But if it doesn't, then we may have to fallback to other ideas to discourage it on some rule sets, specifically the ones where players have less control on who joins their "team" (not just the FFA server).

 

and if THAT doesn't work, maybe it becomes another optional flag for all Campaigns (like the victory conditions.)

 

and if THAT doesn't work, may have to turn it off on some Campaigns or rulessets. To me, that's the option of last resort.

 

Our debates on how to solve this internally echo many of the points and concerns made here. But to be clear, our goal is to make it work.

 

Todd

ACE

 

 

"But to be clear, our goal is to make it work"

 

"We are willing to try find ways to make it work, for all servers"

 

https://youtu.be/t7VICThIkPQ?t=163

 

Re: cone-based melee and its effects on friendly fire:

 

Blair: "Oh man, you're really gonna have to watch where you aim that. That's the downside of friendly fire."

 

----

 

It was ALWAYS the plan to have friendly fire. 

 

JTodd, Tully and Blair have ALL spoken on this topic with the same message in favor of FF.

 

Your propaganda about "they never explicitly promised FF, so it was never part of the game design" is bullsh*t and not even the devs would agree with you. 

 

The latest news we've just received is that it sounds like they've all but given up on the implementation of this game mechanic that they themselves said was planned, intended and "as a last resort" might be reduced in some campaign worlds. 

Edited by vucar

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