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coolster50

Explain Shadowbane Stealth to me

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Stealth makes you invisible to all charters except Scouts who had a power that could reveal you. Taking damage(usually via an AoE or a Scout) would reveal you. Attacking someone would reveal you. All rogues and mages could enter stealth.

 

There was also a power called track that would show you all characters who were within a certain radius of you. Stealth didn't hide you from appearing on Track unless you had whatever discipline gave Catlike Tread which was a power that hid you from track for a certain amount of time.


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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Okay so since they said hide is going to be in the game its important to mention this.

 

Okay so there was hide, stealth, detect skill, and last but not least, track.

 

The detect could counter the stealth by seeing the person if it was above the hide/stealth skill.

 

So the max on hide for alot of the classes that had it was ~20, this was because you had to reach 20 to unlock stealth.

 

Hide allowed you to go invisible where you are standing but you could not move. Like meld for nightelves in vanilla WoW.

 

Stealth allowed you to move invisible with a movement penalty which got reduced the higher you went. This could be trained up to skill level 40. (In shadowbane the cost of skilling up to max on abilities got insanely expensive)

 

So basically the detect skill had to be just as good or better then the stealth skill to discover the person.

 

Area effects that hit a person in stealth would bring them out. Defense rating also counted toward chance to hit on spells so just because you didint bring anyone out didint particularly mean there wasent anyone near by. 

 

The scout had the ability to train this detect up to max of 40 while the discipline rune only(mentioned in a earlier post) had a max of level 20.

 

Additionally, there were 'track' ability given to the scout and granted by the bounty hunter rune that when used brought up a list of people near by, selecting one put a directional arrow above your head pointing in their direction. If you were following it and it suddenly went the opposite direction you just walked through a person in stealth.

 

I dont remember the particular restrictions track had or what scout had with track that was better then the rune but it was tactically very important. Just refreshing the area list could indicate if a enemy squad was coming.

 

So while the track couldnt directly expose a person in stealth it would show where they were with the direction arrow and then trying to use area effects or attacks to hit them to bring them out of stealth was the ticket.

 

I think only a few classes were able to reach 40 in stealth but honestly i forget.

 

Also on a side node the 'shade' was the only race that had hide regardless of the class you picked (generally only rogue starting class could get hide and then promotion classes may have access to it later on) but depending on the class you go in too still couldn't get full blown stealth.

 

It basically ended up that there were much more options to counter stealth then there were actual stealth classes so despite stealth being strong it was balanced in that way.

 

Another way of sort of self balancing was, you are limited on skill points so to dedicate a entire 40 in stealth was costly. But promotions like thief while -generally- were not strong in combat had other uses like steal to take peoples inventory items. I cant tell you how many times i waited for someone to kill a discipline rune spawning create to just steal it from them and run away- then be tracked down and killed.

Edited by Vectious

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Stealth makes you invisible to all charters except Scouts who had a power that could reveal you. Taking damage(usually via an AoE or a Scout) would reveal you. Attacking someone would reveal you. All rogues and mages could enter stealth.

 

There was also a power called track that would show you all characters who were within a certain radius of you. Stealth didn't hide you from appearing on Track unless you had whatever discipline gave Catlike Tread which was a power that hid you from track for a certain amount of time.

Don't forget anti-stealth Spires!

 

And Shades racial (back in the day and where stealth wasn't trained to 21).

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I think only a few classes were able to reach 40 in stealth but honestly i forget.

 

All rogues.

 

And Shadowbane track was the breasts.

 

Awesome, awesome way to find PvP.

 

edit:  (lol the profanity filter is all-encompassing it seems).

Edited by coolwaters

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Pretty much what everyone else said. A stealther also could not stealth when taking damage, especially with a DoT (Damage over time) on them, like a persistent bleed.

 

As far as the actual mechanic, stealth was completely stealth. No shimmer, no camouflage moving like Predator, and no footsteps or stealthing sound while they're moving. Sure, you could hear a character go into stealth, but it was pretty quiet. But invisible was invisible. Even as a scout, you couldn't see the invisible players all the time unless you had detect hidden up. If the stealth level was level 20 or under, you could see the stealth all the time with a piece of jewelry or a starting rune that let you see stealthers at level 20 or lower.

 

Stealth also had a casting time. Hide (can move, but it breaks stealth) was the fastest at level 40. Sneak was the slowest, but was still pretty fast at level 40. Level 20 stealth existed for mages and shades (race).

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It was a lot of fun, and its important to note that stealth had hard-counters in Shadowbane which really is important to making it fair and challenging. Some of my favorite memories from Shadowbane was loading up a thief alt and trying to pickpocket farming groups. You didn't always have sieges to attend, and back then their weren't any resources or crafting of any kind (you queued up items to be made at a shop basically). It was a fun way to pass the time and I'm really glad Todd is bringing this system here.

 

Even if all of the stealth classes suck horribly, there will still be fun to be had.

 

I'd also add the above explanations were a little drawn out... and possibly a little confusing so I'll just tldr it for ya.

 

This: Hide -> Stealth (each had skill levels)

Countered by: Track -> Reveal (skill levels as well)

 

-> = led to... 

Edited by scree

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Remember when we could steal from mobs?

 

You always could steal from mobs. The only ones you couldn't were r8's and discipline droppers. Which initially, you could steal from discipline droppers. The rage people had when they killed the disc dropper only to find out it had been stolen.

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i miss the cat n mouse game we played as scouts n thieves...we all knew each other.

 

roadrunner, stratus, ducky....some thieves were some sneaky good players.

Turil, stoker, hazad?, scrubbin some scouts made a living finding and killin thieves.

 

Don't forget the equally nasty huntresses....many scouts got a free recall opening up and picking that fight!


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

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i miss the cat n mouse game we played as scouts n thieves...we all knew each other.

 

roadrunner, stratus, ducky....some thieves were some sneaky good players.

Turil, stoker, hazad?, scrubbin some scouts made a living finding and killin thieves.

 

Don't forget the equally nasty huntresses....many scouts got a free recall opening up and picking that fight!

 

could come to a stalemate vamp scout vs a non-savant nuketress. But that's as close as i got to killing em.

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could come to a stalemate vamp scout vs a non-savant nuketress. But that's as close as i got to killing em.

I killed some on the Lost build, and a few on the Vandarr build, but mainly because they sucked. Come to think of it, that's how I got pretty much every kill.

 

For the original poster, I'm going to add details on a few items listed above.

 

Scouts were given an AoE spell that cost a very high stamina cost with a long reset timer called reveal. It removed stealth from everyone, including the caster, who was in range. The range was essentially just shy of the maximum range of your bow. I didn't use it often, but it was a great anti-stealth group mechanic that helped to control full scale stealth groups in the age before instant stealth (a terrible change made in the late days).

 

Scouts were also given a seldom trained group hide spell called camouflage, which hid all group members from sight. They could only be revealed by movement, attacking, casting, the aforementioned reveal spell, taking damage, or by someone with a see invisible skill higher than the trained power of the camo cast. It wasn't terribly useful except in PL groups, but I did enjoy using it to defend a fixed position, such as a resource, when you knew you had enemy incoming. I also got to use it on a few occasions as kind of a lark, where we'd teleport a group into the middle of someone right as their AoEs went off, with the camo following a second later and effectively hiding the group from sight. I did get to use it a few times in teleporting an engaged group away from combat momentarily to create some space and let the enemy take a few ticks of DoT damage without knowing where we went. Few people liked it much, but I loved it.

 

For most of SB, GM hide (40 trains) reduced the cast time down to less than 1 second. Hide didn't allow for you to move. GM sneak (40 trains) was a 5 second cast time. It provided the same hide skill, but allowed movement at a 10% penalty (again, at GM). For most of the game, if you wanted to get away, you would need 80 trains sunk into those abilities, then cast Hide (1 second) followed by sneak (5 seconds) in order to move away. This gave your enemies 6 seconds to close on the spot you disappeared and cast an AoE to reveal you. As most classes could use some form of AoE, this gave you some chance at being revealed. One of the other neat things about SB was that there was a 5% chance you were going to get hit regardless of your defensive skill, so even a veteran stealther could occasionally be revealed by a near newbie.

 

Last, but not least, every power in SB worked on a greater than or equal to basis. If your ability to detect stealth was greater than or equal to their ability to stealth, then you saw them, period.

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I'll add that good scouts always had detect hidden up, I thought SB deserved one or two more classes with access to detect hidden (since scouts became completely necessary for every group, as the game devolved into Roguebane), it was very satisfying to unstealth someone with only track and AoE, and I am all about track, for sure.  CF needs track!

Edited by mctan

Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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Stealth is what Headlight does before evaccing when I appear on track. 


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

SWrkfdj.jpg

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Man, I hated me some evaccing. I evacced once - on accident. Escape and evasion for the win.

 

On another note, I'm going to echo Hillbilly's comment about missing the stealther game. You really did get to know everyone else who regularly played a scout/thief/assassin, and that made the game immensely entertaining. When your bond with your enemies is nearly that of your friends, you know things have gotten good. Trying to figure out new tactics to combat the constant evolution of builds among the stealther classes made the game remain fresh for me even to the very end.

 

EDIT: One more comment, to McTan's post above. Sometimes the game was more fun without detect hidden up. Pretending you aren't paying attention and sitting down without DH up in order to get a backstab was sometimes a good thing. I used to do that on the Lost build against thieves - it was an all out CON human with a 12 bleeding damage shield hood, the 10 damage shield Vorgrim LA vest, and the 30 slashing damage shield from riposte. I wanted the thief in close to start the fight, and was willing to give him the first blow in order to win it faster. I was a-ok with him knocking off a k or so from the get go when I knew i could glad heal and out regen his ability to keep up his HP when every time he hit me he was doing 10poison+12bleeding+30 slashing damage to himself (when he'd jump me, I'd open with the -25% resist debuff also from blade master). 52 damage a hand adds up quick when you don't have a way to heal yourself. That build was incredibly fun considering it was just an experiment to figure out the con/hp formula for scouts by maxxing con.

Edited by vandarr

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True, true. If you played a scout and you didn't know a scout -- you introduced yourself and possibly lost just to find out how good they were. You got to know how every scout was played."Should I stay or should i go now" -- A scout's theme song.

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