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coolster50

MMORPG.com Exclusive: Harvesting

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Cool.
I like the ghostly pickaxe in the screenshots. Glad they're not doing the whole not-using-a-tool thing.
Also multiplayer harvesting. I'm looking forward to raid boss ore node

Edited by Groovin

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So far it sounds good, but who would want to sacrifice combat skills for harvesting ?

 

A guild where everyone is a fighter and no harvesters will always have an upper hand over a guild with 1/2 fighters and 1/2 harvesters. They will just destroy the competition and then inefficiently get all the resources ? In any case they will be able to completely prevent mining by the more "balanced" guild.

 

I think I need to read though it again.

Edited by rajah

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So far it sounds good, but who would want to sacrifice combat skills for harvesting ?

 

A guild where everyone is a fighter and no harvesters will always have an upper hand over a guild with 1/2 fighters and 1/2 harvesters. They will just destroy the competition and then inefficiently get all the resources ? In any case they will be able to completely prevent mining by the more "balanced" guild.

 

I think I need to read though it again.

Think it comes down to how much time you want to spend harvesting and how many players can you afford to use at any one place.  I mean if your guild owns a keep/city/territory are you really going to take away defenders to harvest because you don't have any harvesting skilled players? Are you going to inefficiently waste time on a single node when you can be going after multiple nodes or spending less time on each node?

 

I think this system is great because it doesn't seem like zerging and brute force will be the best way to go about it.

Edited by pang

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Great article with awesome info! I was waiting for more information surrounding harvesting and crafting. Excellent first step to give us this. Can't wait to read more about the crafting mechanics.


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Looks very well thought out on first read-through.  It really does mean that dedicated harvesters and dedicated crafters will have a role to play even in hardcore PvP guilds.  The skill investment needed for efficient use of high level nodes is considerable.

 

Well done, ACE.

 

 

Also, this sort of article is what I wish the twice-weekly info dumps were like all the time!

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It really does mean that dedicated harvesters and dedicated crafters will have a role to play even in hardcore PvP guilds.  The skill investment needed for efficient use of high level nodes is considerable.

 

To be honest, that should have been clear from the start. ACE has made that clear even before the Kickstarter campaign. If a guild is not prepared for this, they didn't do their homework imo.


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So far it sounds good, but who would want to sacrifice combat skills for harvesting ?

 

A guild where everyone is a fighter and no harvesters will always have an upper hand over a guild with 1/2 fighters and 1/2 harvesters. They will just destroy the competition and then inefficiently get all the resources ? In any case they will be able to completely prevent mining by the more "balanced" guild.

 

I think I need to read though it again.

I think a guild that fields only fighters will get slaughtered by a guild with pro harvesters: They are getting the mats to build better mats to the crafters to build better gear, equipment and constructions much much quicker. If all you can do is fight your buildings are going to be pretty crap.

 

If I as a miner have got high skill points investment and can get much much better mats out of the ground faster  then our castle can go up a lot quicker - and will be a lot stronger. our weapons and armour will be much better quality... and we can repair and replace them far more frequently. 

 

I love the idea of being useful even if im not a mental pvp'er - so harvesting is exciting!! - but Im a bit alarmed about how extremely it favours MultiVIP account holders --Crafting and exploring are going to be critical skillsets that richer players will simply offshoot to dedicated accounts.

 

MultiVIPers can build entirely unrealistic crow accounts with maximum combat disadvantages and use them as harvesting peons whilst maxing their PvP skills other accounts.

 

Since the crow vessel system was implemented its not possible to do this with the *spare character slots* in our accounts as would be normal in the old model. In BDO for example the multibox advantage was extremely limited - same in eve.. single account players are not really disadvantaged versus a multiVIPer: No skill tree is so overwhelmingly OP that dedicating yourself to it gave you a major advantage.

 

But here.. the 3 seperate pillars of campaign win are: Combat - Exploring and Harvesting: And arguably each one if specialized in its own VIP account will gain massive advantages versus a single VIP trying to balance the three pillars. 

 

In Crowfall a single account player who wants to have some level of harvesting or exploring skills will be majorly disadvantaged against a multiVIper. The comparison to Eve online, whilst great for putting harvesting in perspective in this respect in NOT really valid from the skills / talents view: Eve doesnt lock players into and force a constant combat campaign scenario like Crowfall does - where exploring and harvesting will be critical to winning any such scenario as much as pilot combat skills.

 

My gut feeling is that Crowfall should allow players to run multiple crows in one account - for specialisation swapping - regardless of the vessel system, to avoid that VIP-multibox advantage.

Edited by Deloria

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Basically people will have harvesting accounts, crafting accounts, and combat accounts. 

 

I made a suggestion to allow training in each of these areas (harvesting, crafting and combat) if you're a VIP so that people wouldn't need to run multiple accounts and/or multi-box but ACE wants people to not be able to do "everything". It's a design decision they made and I'm okay with it.

 

With that being said, any hardcore player or guild is going to run multiple accounts and multi box and I don't think ACE will try to stop it. As long as people aren't "botting" on their harvesting/crafting accounts (using 3rd party software or macros to play the game for them) then I don't see any issue with it personally. It's been that way in many, many games before this one. I don't think it will detract from dedicated harvesters/crafters either because someone who has an alt account for a crafter/harvester isn't going to be as good at it as someone who is dedicated to it. 

Edited by blazzen

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To be honest, that should have been clear from the start. ACE has made that clear even before the Kickstarter campaign. If a guild is not prepared for this, they didn't do their homework imo.

 

Saying that, and providing a framework that proves it are two different things.  Many games have said crafters and harvesters are important.  Most have failed to deliver.  That said, this is exactly what we were hoping for.  It's a great start to producing an immersive experience.

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Saying that, and providing a framework that proves it are two different things.  Many games have said crafters and harvesters are important.  Most have failed to deliver.  That said, this is exactly what we were hoping for.  It's a great start to producing an immersive experience.

 

I totally agree with that. Although with Raph Koster on board as an adviser I was totally not worried about it.


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So far it sounds good, but who would want to sacrifice combat skills for harvesting ?

 

A guild where everyone is a fighter and no harvesters will always have an upper hand over a guild with 1/2 fighters and 1/2 harvesters. They will just destroy the competition and then inefficiently get all the resources ? In any case they will be able to completely prevent mining by the more "balanced" guild.

 

I think I need to read though it again.

Potentially early on but the more balanced guild will have access to better and more gear and weapons later in a campaign that a guild that doesn't have crafters and harvesters may not have the ready access to. Especially if you're talking about a long siege, that pure PvP guild may start struggling as their gear degrades and breaks while the balanced team can replace and repair their gear as needed.

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So far it sounds good, but who would want to sacrifice combat skills for harvesting ?

 

A guild where everyone is a fighter and no harvesters will always have an upper hand over a guild with 1/2 fighters and 1/2 harvesters. They will just destroy the competition and then inefficiently get all the resources ? In any case they will be able to completely prevent mining by the more "balanced" guild.

 

I think I need to read though it again.

Depends ENTIRELY on how the combat skills flush out. They will still be able to train up their archestype skills. We will see the margin of advantage, if its not toooooo big then it will be alright.

 

Also the other way for all crafter guild. The armor and items are not supposed to be overly powered. It may end up that all of these advantages add up if the roles are properly averaged across the guild.

Edited by Vectious

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I like what I see a lot. Without the crafting info there are a lot of things up in the air. The gold dust thing is still weird, not sure where they are going with that. Gold has to have some utility in crafting or people won't value it and I don't think anyone will trade... who knows.

 

All other things are cool. A smart system that uses combat as basis so not much time or money wasted on it. Plans for group harvesting and tons of oportunity for emergent game play. So far I like it.


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i wonder if animals also become 'Nodes' when they die and have a new 'HP' bar you have to deplete to get the materials... Also if animals will have POIs similar to mines where they respawn in mass, would be nice if this mass NPC spawns happened in random places.

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Basically people will have harvesting accounts, crafting accounts, and combat accounts. 

 

I made a suggestion to allow training in each of these areas (harvesting, crafting and combat) if you're a VIP so that people wouldn't need to run multiple accounts and/or multi-box but ACE wants people to not be able to do "everything". It's a design decision they made and I'm okay with it.

 

With that being said, any hardcore player or guild is going to run multiple accounts and multi box and I don't think ACE will try to stop it. As long as people aren't "botting" on their harvesting/crafting accounts (using 3rd party software or macros to play the game for them) then I don't see any issue with it personally. It's been that way in many, many games before this one. I don't think it will detract from dedicated harvesters/crafters either because someone who has an alt account for a crafter/harvester isn't going to be as good at it as someone who is dedicated to it.

The issue is this: That a rich player with time on their hands can have 9 times the skill-building advantage of a player playing without VIP (but who still paid 40 bucks for the privilege to play).

 

Cos a non-VIP player is just levelling 1 skill. A multiVIPer can afford 3 vip accounts and so is levelling 3 skills per account continuously.

 

So basically someone who bought the game but is not sure of the benefits of the VIP subscription will only see a huge differential bought and paid for in cash by those with deeper pockets. Why should someone pay 40 dollars for the game if they start with such a massive disadvantage unless they are prepared to fork out the monthly sub - then multiply that by the extra accounts they need to specialise in other skillsets.

 

I think youre right about hardcore guilds with multiVIP: I think some will end up demanding it: The Crow Vessel system as described makes it impossible for someone who wants to be absolutely the best they can be in PvP to also do exploring / harvesting on a single account.

 

They MUST multiaccount. They must run VIP for multiaccount.

Casual players are just going to walk away from this.

 

ACE should really concentrate on making if feasible to maximise character capabilities within every purchased account, regardless of VIP - and especially should not allow MultiVIP holders such a massive advantage.

It would be unprecedented in modern gaming to have such a gap I think.

Edited by Deloria

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Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

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From my perspective, the most interesting thing about the system is that resource nodes are spawning gold dust and that gold dust (in some way / shape / form) will then be used for currency.

 

My assumption is that this is intended as a mechanism to avoid some kind of deflationary spiral.

 

In a normal MMORPG, players wander around killing MOBs and collecting gold / trash items.  This ensures a steady flow of gold into the economy.  Ideally, this means that the ratio of gold / important stuff stays relatively constant or, at best, there is a small amount of inflation.

 

In Crowfall, PVP is far more important.  PVP won't be a gold source in the same way that MOB farming is, and in theory, the ratio of money/stuff is going to be constantly increasing.  If, however, resource nodes are also providing something that is used as money you can try to hold this ratio more constant.

 

Or, at least that is what I think that they are playing at...


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Rather, the game rewards you mechanically for being more people. Simply having more accounts will give you access to more skills, but you can only be online on x amount of characters at once and if 2/3 of a guild is alts, then that is 2/3 of a guild being inactive all the time.

 

Not only do you get the same benefits simply from having a bigger guild, you end up having higher activity and therefore higher efficiency. Time spent on an alt crafting will be time not spent on your other alt exploring and time exploring will be time not spent fighting for objectives in the world.

 

It's kinda like VIP's being able to train multiple archetypes at once. While you can change to a different archetype during the campaign and remain at the same competitive level as another archetype(who is not VIP), it means time not spent on the first archetype. Your options go up, but efficiency stays the same. Much better to just have a guild or group where all bases are covered.

 

Being a self sustained guild, with a balanced group of people, covering all skill sets needed to sustain all members. This is where the system will shine.

Edited by Smed

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