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MiracleMax

MMORPG Update: Harvesting Reveal

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1. If level 5 plentiful harvest talent is part of the leadership skill tree, can 1 toon train up the leadership tree until he has lvl5, and another toon train up the first 4 levels of plentiful harvest, then the group gets the aggregate level 5 plentiful harvest talent loot roll?

Or will level 5 plentiful harvest only be trainable for a toon with level 4 plentiful harvest AND the prerequisite leadership talents trained?

 

2. It looks like, even on a level 10 resource node (Dregs only?), The only way to get legendary ore is to train plentiful harvest 5.

 

3. Since The Shadows band is officially cut from launch, and it is a Kickstarter-promised stretch goal, I expect ACE to keep Shadows resource quality worked into the system, so that The Dregs is still 2 steps better resource quality than Gods War (12 faction) and 3 steps better than Gods' Reach.

This would be honorably living up to KS promises until there is enough bandwidth to implement the stretch goal after launch.

It would also keep The Dregs tempting for players who want the best resources and equipment!

 

4. I'm trying to envision a tree that can heal faster than a champion with max harvesting skill can chop!  :lol:


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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In the Crow and vessel scheme, will "harvesting" runestones be perishable? Will my Crow keep skills for life or will they reset when a campaign closes?

 

It sounded like harvesting runestones will decay but not sure if that means just wear & tear or if all skills a vessel acquires resets with the world (or possibly complete decay of the runestone during a campaign).

 

"(in Crowfall, you are playing an immortal champion of the Gods. It seemed a bit silly to force you to punch a tree to fashion a wooden axe or shovel.)  Instead, we decided to use our Runestone concept – where the true name of an item or creatures can be inscribed on something to allow a Crow to conjure and control it – to provide a better narrative wrapper to this in-game activity."

 

" We included item decay on the harvesting rune as core component of this system (we need it as a sink for our economy) but this wrapper makes it look better (it makes the harvesting task feels less mundane) and, as a nice upshot of this idea, it also allows us to compress the harvesting items more efficiently in the player’s inventory (with limited inventory space, no one is excited about carrying around five mining picks.)"

 

Skills don't decay, only items. Any skill you train will last as long as your account lasts, but items will wear, tear, and be stolen from you.


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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So, it may be necessary to replace your runestone from time to time or have it "repaired" (if thats a mechanic)?

 

Also, aren't all runestones crafted items?

 

Edit: Or..if harvesting runestones are by "type"...swap them out to train on stone vs. ore vs. animal vs. wood. I think I like that idea if thats how they envision it.

Edited by Cordite

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1. In the Crow and vessel scheme, will "harvesting" runestones be perishable?

It sounded like harvesting runestones will decay but not sure if that means just wear & tear or if all skills a vessel acquires resets with the world.

"(in Crowfall, you are playing an immortal champion of the Gods. It seemed a bit silly to force you to punch a tree to fashion a wooden axe or shovel.)  Instead, we decided to use our Runestone concept – where the true name of an item or creatures can be inscribed on something to allow a Crow to conjure and control it – to provide a better narrative wrapper to this in-game activity."

" We included item decay on the harvesting rune as core component of this system (we need it as a sink for our economy) but this wrapper makes it look better (it makes the harvesting task feels less mundane) and, as a nice upshot of this idea, it also allows us to compress the harvesting items more efficiently in the player’s inventory (with limited inventory space, no one is excited about carrying around five mining picks.)"

 

2. Will my Crow keep skills for life or will they reset when a campaign closes?

1. I believe Blair meant to say "the summoning miniature concept", which allows players to summon a mount (and presumably a harvesting tool, wagon, siege engine, or fully equipped vessel) when desired and subsequently stow it in a backpack. Such miniatures probably are engraved with the appropriate runes and would be made of stone.

Miniatures are lootable and destructible (from the FAQ). They are crafted items.

 

2.All skills are stored on the account record, your crow, not your vessel (from the FAQ).

Edited by chancellor

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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So, it may be necessary to replace your runestone from time to time or have it "repaired" (if thats a mechanic)?

 

Also, aren't all runestones crafted items?

 

Correct, the need to replace items is a driving factor in CF's economy. I'm unsure if ALL runestones will be crafted, but the vast majority will be.


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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Okay so, I was at work all day and I'm just reading this. I have to say that I'm happy with the direction that harvesting is taking. There are a couple of points that I'd like to push though. For one, I'd like to see more generic harvesting stats across disciplines. If I master mining and lumberjacking, my character should have a bonus to harvesting in the same way that a pvper would get bonuses from training the general combat tree. Right now, general skills are locked and archetype skills do not benefit crafting. It only makes sense to balance the gameplay for non-combatants.

 

Also, the game is designed for team play, you're saying that some nodes cannot be killed by solo players. Is this true even at maximum specialization? Do the vessels have crafting based skill caps similar to combat? Based on previous comments, it feels as though crafting has a hard maximum baked into the skill trees instead of benefitting from vessel quality. Can players achieve comparable skill levels through items and leadership buffs as combat skills? Is it possible to surpass the nodes that are intended for multiple people or is it a game design choice to not allow it at any level?

 

I guess the biggest thing that worries me is that crafting is supposed to be a primary stand-alone profession but, the design of the game seems to force combat. To put it in a different perspective, it would be like designing a game and telling players "you can live as a pvper and never have to craft but, in order to get to the pvp, you have to craft a key to the pvp zone!" Dont get me wrong here, I have fond memories of getting pk'ed in minoc by Nox mages but, it was also your own fault if you weren't prepared. In Crowfall, being unprepared is a feature of the system.

 

Now, I know Im not including the bigger picture so it's not a very fair way to paint the system but, it does raise questions.

 

Also, in regards to harvesting leather from increasingly difficult animals, are you going to give harvesters a bonus to damage against them to balance the skill vs other harvesting skills or do you have to figure out a way to kill the animal and THEN have multiple skinners to combat the regenerating carcass? It seems like it would be an impossible task for an ungeared crafter to kill anything much less something high tiered. Will players be able to tame hard creatures and use them as tanks or breed animals like livestock for food and resources?

 

I need more!

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2) If you have a look at the alloy chart chart from the old interview (the one linked at the top of the post), it does list a few stats for the various metals.  In this case, copper was 0.2 str.  So you could imagine that Legendary Copper may have a higher str stat or additional attributes attached.  Of course, it was a year and a half ago so those stats may not mean much at this point.

 

 

That's not quite what I meant. Did you ever play SWG? In that game, the resource stats were randomly generated and the veins rotated I think it was bi-weekly. There were something like 11 different stats and the resources you gathered hand random variables for each of those. You might find copper (they didn't use "copper", but just as an example) with stats like 700, 800, 900, 900, 800, 500, 700, 800, 500, 100, 100 and then another that was 100, 500, 999, 800, 500, 400, 700, 111, 400, 500, 999. These stats weren't set, but randomly generated for each ore vein. Good crafters would have to be searching for the best resources (or buying up hoards of them from the marketplace). The recipes would take things like 5 metal or whatever and you could use ANY metal, and each stat mattered to the recipe in a certain way. One might affect reload speed on a gun, another weight, another damage output, etc.

 

Basically, there were no set recipes. You got randomly generated resource stats that you pumped into recipes that turned those resource stats into equipment stats. A good crafter would find and mix the right resources to create unique items that did not have set stats. That's what made it amazing. There was also some minor bit of "experimenting" the crafter could do to mess with stats on creation. This meant that no two items were ever quite the same. That's how crafters made a name for themselves.

 

If there's just 5 types of ore and 5 quality levels, but no randomly generated stats... then anyone who gets Legendary copper is making the same gear as anyone else who has Legendary copper. Basically that just means 25 different possible variations for crafting. No uniqueness to the items made. That's my concern. Maybe somewhere in the crafting skill trees will be things that change that, that's what I'm hoping. 


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Can you make a vid about this, cant read that long :P concentration problems

 

And when we do video-only updates some people want the write-up only! It's a good suggestion, as people often absorb information better from one medium over another.  I don't know that we have the bandwidth to always do this but we are aware of the issue.


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it sounds like harvesting is niche which can be good since its competitive and people will seek out people with certain affinity to what they harvest

 

dont see why you cant have a main with a certain affinity towards one particular resource gathering or just steal/barter it from others if you're melting down about how you'll have to make another character just to do it exclusively


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And when we do video-only updates some people want the write-up only! It's a good suggestion, as people often absorb information better from one medium over another.  I don't know that we have the bandwidth to always do this but we are aware of the issue.

why would anyone want that his unpreferred way of information gets neglected? i think, nearly everyone would be happy with vids PLUS write-ups.

or with updates to the FAQ-stuff.

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I like it a lot, it seems to lend itself towards a rather symbiotic system of gameplay. I plan on having two accounts, simply so I can passively train a secondary crafter and/or harvester. But not everyone will. I think this will tend to change the dynamic a little bit. I doubt Uber "1337" PvP guilds will able to sustain themselves with the fittings of war, especially on raiding alone. They will more than likely need dedicated people for support who's sole focus is not PvP in and of itself. That's kind of a good thing.


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I like it a lot, it seems to lend itself towards a rather symbiotic system of gameplay. I plan on having two accounts, simply so I can passively train a secondary crafter and/or harvester. But not everyone will. I think this will tend to change the dynamic a little bit. I doubt Uber "1337" PvP guilds will able to sustain themselves with the fittings of war, especially on raiding alone. They will more than likely need dedicated people for support who's sole focus is not PvP in and of itself. That's kind of a good thing.

People keep making a huge assumption that if you dont train in the combat tab of general you will be unable to be competitive in pvp. You have to remember that the combat tab also works in conjunction with the archetype tree which is trained in parallel, will combat have an advantage? Yes. A insurmountable one? I doubt it. That would go against almost everything ACE has tried to work for. Hence they wanting new players to still be able to go up against vets.

 

Now if crafted armor/weapons have a restriction in skill. That would be interesting, crafters couldn't use their own goods, with out someone skilled in combat to make use of their goods they are basically useless. Would be an interesting symbiotic relationship. The current vessel tree had that already in place, you cannot use 'legendary' vessels until you train to that point.

 

And i think multi-boxing for harvesting may end up being counter intuitive. Or at the very least, give advantage to raiders, twice the rewards, you get to kill 2 people and take their stuff instead of 1. With out some sort of hacks or cheat software you couldn't control two people at once to defend. The more uncontrolled characters the more exposed you become.

 

We will have to see how they make use of the crafter in this symbiotic relationship. How do they make it an advantage for a real life person doing it?

 

The best thought that rings to my mind is requiring a forge. Would have to keep a eye on your forges to make sure and keep your crafters safe, would be a lovely place for a small gank squad to raid now and again. And even perhaps 'wild' forges that give better results in crafting, could be a optional POI.

 

Maybe even make the forging process a passive time consumption. Meaning you 'load' up the query on the forge, takes X amount of time but during that time the items/materials are basically exposed and can be taken. A live crafter speeds this time up, could even make 'slots' so multiple crafters to speed up a query. Of course loading up 6 alts to do this may be realistic....but what if someone comes by kills all 6 people and takes the stuff? Thats a huge net loss counting all the stuff on the crafters themselves.


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And when we do video-only updates some people want the write-up only! It's a good suggestion, as people often absorb information better from one medium over another.  I don't know that we have the bandwidth to always do this but we are aware of the issue.

Just throw it up on youtube. Use their bandwidth  :lol:


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3) I like the group harvesting idea. Firefall actually did this really well (and also used resource stats similar to SWG) where you'd pop down a harvester and that would attract swarms of enemies you had to fight off until it finished gathering, or they'd destroy your harvester. What about something similar for Crowfall where some nodes (not all nodes, but some specific large group nodes) attract mobs when you try to harvest it?

 

THIS.  A thousand times this.  Please gamify resource collection in some way.  Standing in front of the node and pressing F should not be how you harvest resources.  It's like, hey glad you're having fun playing our game, here you need this, please stop having fun for a few minutes and stand here and waste your time.

 

Honestly though, I have faith in ACE, just promise me you'll spend some genuine time examining the inventory management interface to go along with harvesting.   Standard - bag with static number of items held arranged in a grid - format makes me a very sad panda.  Please don't make me waste time organizing my crap.

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THIS.  A thousand times this.  Please gamify resource collection in some way.  Standing in front of the node and pressing F should not be how you harvest resources.  It's like, hey glad you're having fun playing our game, here you need this, please stop having fun for a few minutes and stand here and waste your time.

 

Honestly though, I have faith in ACE, just promise me you'll spend some genuine time examining the inventory management interface to go along with harvesting.   Standard - bag with static number of items held arranged in a grid - format makes me a very sad panda.  Please don't make me waste time organizing my crap.

 

Forcing players into a gathering role will cause guilds to setup miners and defenders to enforce more strategy in PVP scenario's.  Sure it sucks being the miner but if you have a guild where others are wanting to be the miner then become the defender.

Edited by Weebles

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Technicalities from the article:
 
 

The categories are: Ore, Stone, Wood, and Animal. While there will be other types of resource in the future (such as gems for jewelry, or harvestable organs for necromancy) most of these will either be one-off additives, or derived from one of those four base categories.  (Anything not contained within a base category will have a much smaller skill tree, as a result. For example Gem Harvesting would be a small skill tree off of the ore skill tree.)

 

 

Gem should be a small skill tree off of Stone, not Ore. There was also a disparity in the article between the picture and the words:  The category "Ore" was changed to the word "Metal" in the picture.

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Forcing players into a gathering role will cause guilds to setup miners and defenders to enforce more strategy in PVP scenario's.  Sure it sucks being the miner but if you have a guild where others are wanting to be the miner then become the defender.

 

Either way, the guy doing the mining is still pressing F and standing still for a while... FeelsBadMan.  Also if you're in a large enough group to not get attacked, the guy doing the guarding is just standing around doing nothing while the miner presses F.  It's just a really boring idea for a system that is apparently so crucial for success in the game.

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