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MiracleMax

MMORPG Update: Harvesting Reveal

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The question isn't can you gamify the harvesting process more, but should you attempt to gamify the harvesting process? Does the "combat player" enjoy the same gameplay as the "harvesting/crafter player?" This is a discussion we have had many times on the implementation path and decided not to go with a mini game.

 

The approach we took was a deep RPGesque system where stats, min maxing, preparation, calculating probabilities, exploration, and environmental risk is very important. (As you can see by the skill trees) We further added in a beneficial social element ontop of that where individuals (and presumable teams) will be rewarded for group harvesting. 

 

If that much work/ideas/thoughts/consideration went into just harvesting resources, I guess we can expect a brilliant gameplay and a magnificent game next year, hopefully.

 

I guess the work that went into that would have been much more beneficial or needed elsewhere.

 

For example, in the video at the start of the crowdfunding campaign, it was said that there would be ancient ruins, towns and caves for the players to explore. How is this gonna be worked out? How far are we on this subject? Why would I want to go out exploring? What will I explore? This was for me a real interesting point when I looked at Crowfall.

Edited by Urahara

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If that much work/ideas/thoughts/consideration went into just harvesting resources, I guess we can expect a brilliant gameplay and a magnificent game next year, hopefully.

 

I guess the work that went into that would have been much more beneficial or needed elsewhere.

 

For example, in the video at the start of the crowdfunding campaign, it was said that there would be ancient ruins, towns and caves for the players to explore. How is this gonna be worked out? How far are we on this subject? Why would I want to go out exploring? What will I explore? This was for me a real interesting point when I looked at Crowfall.

Based on what i have seen, exploring may be the most important aspect of the game.

 

These resources are out there, these lands are basically 'randomly' generated. You not only have to find them but then lead other people(hopefully harvesters) to them to get the resources.

 

You have to find the best areas the build on, have to find the important POIs, and again you have to lead people back there, unless they add map sharing in the game, which they have talked about that possibility.

 

You HAVE to go out and find this stuff, because if you dont, someone else will and gain the advantage. 

Edited by Vectious

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Youll have crafters gathering resources, people guarding and fighting off thiefs. Then everyone has to caravan everything back to were ever. Youll have people attacking the caravan, and more fighting. Then the crafters can craft and the guards get cool swords. And that is all mostly player driven, for no extra programing, thats all free

Edited by Timmy123taf

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I'm glad to see that the alloys will have use as crafting levels up and I'm looking forward to the metal/stat combinations and relationships.

 

I'm pretty weary of the  "run up to a node and a magic tool appears that harvests for you" approach to harvesting however. I loved SWG's harvesters and I'm disappointed that the actual harvesting will not take more effort/strategy.


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I like some of what I see, but not others. I play games to be a pure crafter. As a pure crafter in most game, much of my time is me out hunting resources and managing my incoming materials and selling outgoing product. Sometimes, it is the guild who sends me stuff where I don't make much money as a courtesy, or I use my own materials as a way to further develop my character. This system of group based harvesting puts my character development into the hands of other players primarily, with my own harvesting providing secondary development. 

 

I understand the want to have non-combat characters interact with combat characters, but there needs to be an aspect of non-social development as well. Some players won't want to have to gather a group of guards to do anything, and I'm sure plenty of players are not going to want to be involved in being a harvester guard. Consider these scenarios: if no combat players are attracted to harvesting, harvesters are generally screwed; If harvesters don't gain significantly more value from harvesting than combat characters, there is no reason to be a pure harvester; if combat characters become forced to help harvesters just get the material flow going, you have bunch of players playing in a way that they dislike and are likely to want to play less. 

 

But basically, I feel that non-combat and combat characters and activities should overlap in only a few ways, such as rare materials and some advancement, but not day to day activities. This worked very well in SWG. Harvesters, surveying, sales, and workshops were solo, creature based mats and armor bonus materials as well as some other things were group based. Crafters and harvesters as people are typically less social and more solo grinders(having played them for almost 2 decades and knowing at least 500 top tier crafters in dozens of games). Forcing their progression into a social thing will likely deter career noncombat players, rather than draw them. Anyway, I feel like I'm rambling here a little bit, so I'll end it. Hopefully, you get the impression of what I mean if I started to not make sense.

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This worked very well in SWG. Harvesters, surveying, sales, and workshops were solo

 

What did a solo harvester do in SWG when a gang of PvPers came to kill him and take all the materials?

 

How did he avoid the need for protection?


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What did a solo harvester do in SWG when a gang of PvPers came to kill him and take all the materials?

 

How did he avoid the need for protection?

 

It wasn't an issue, as all PvP in SWG was opt-in via the "temporary enemy flag".  It essentially functioned the same as World of Warcraft.

 

As far as I recall, SWG had no pvp servers.

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I like some of what I see, but not others. I play games to be a pure crafter. As a pure crafter in most game, much of my time is me out hunting resources and managing my incoming materials and selling outgoing product. Sometimes, it is the guild who sends me stuff where I don't make much money as a courtesy, or I use my own materials as a way to further develop my character. This system of group based harvesting puts my character development into the hands of other players primarily, with my own harvesting providing secondary development. 

 

I understand the want to have non-combat characters interact with combat characters, but there needs to be an aspect of non-social development as well. Some players won't want to have to gather a group of guards to do anything, and I'm sure plenty of players are not going to want to be involved in being a harvester guard. Consider these scenarios: if no combat players are attracted to harvesting, harvesters are generally screwed; If harvesters don't gain significantly more value from harvesting than combat characters, there is no reason to be a pure harvester; if combat characters become forced to help harvesters just get the material flow going, you have bunch of players playing in a way that they dislike and are likely to want to play less. 

 

But basically, I feel that non-combat and combat characters and activities should overlap in only a few ways, such as rare materials and some advancement, but not day to day activities. This worked very well in SWG. Harvesters, surveying, sales, and workshops were solo, creature based mats and armor bonus materials as well as some other things were group based. Crafters and harvesters as people are typically less social and more solo grinders(having played them for almost 2 decades and knowing at least 500 top tier crafters in dozens of games). Forcing their progression into a social thing will likely deter career noncombat players, rather than draw them. Anyway, I feel like I'm rambling here a little bit, so I'll end it. Hopefully, you get the impression of what I mean if I started to not make sense.

i can only agree. i really hope, that there will be more interesting things for combatcharacters to fight over than ressources and players gathering them.

or worlds get really big, so its unlikely to meet someone if one does not really actively look for him. or if there were gathering areas that belong to the keep that enemies can only enter if they conquer that keep.

if not, solo-crafters and solo-harvesters will only play in epic kingdoms.

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What did a solo harvester do in SWG when a gang of PvPers came to kill him and take all the materials?

 

How did he avoid the need for protection?

 

Your bulk materials were done by actually gathered by harvesting machines. Placing them in the appropriate place required active surveying to find best placement on their shifting resource system. It also required you to return regularly for material collection, maintenance fees, power recharging, and to see if you needed to resurvey if resources moved. During the survey process, some of the best yield places were highly contested when it immediately spawned, allowing guilds with PKers to capture the area for them to drop harvesters, while everyone else placed outside theirs for lesser yields or searched for equal or better spots in out of the way areas. People who didn't care about being the best would end up with about 75% to 80% of the yield of top players, and often miss short duration resources because they weren't out there surveying themselves or communicating with other surveyors. There was once a steel that create the best crafted weapons and armor that was only available for about a day on a single small area at a very small yield. It resulted in only the most dedicated having some in their stock and it was only used to make the best things possible. It sold for insane amounts too.

 

More rare materials(small volume) were more subjected to pvp. Killing a krayt dragon for their scales and such would often draw pvp to prevent the kills or attempts at kill stealing. Same for farm spots that provided some crafted accent pieces, like skill tapes(+ to certain skills) and such. Gathering fur, leather, and blood from mobs resulted in the same thing, contested farm spots with pvp.

 

So, you see, while bulk materials, which were constantly needed and took up most of crafting usage, were a solo activity, small volume materials were a group activity with regular pvp opportunities, as they were often used in finished product crafting in high end gear, not regular fodder weapons and armor. 

Edited by gerams76

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It wasn't an issue, as all PvP in SWG was opt-in via the "temporary enemy flag".  It essentially functioned the same as World of Warcraft.

 

As far as I recall, SWG had no pvp servers.

I thought you could always PK in non-main planets? I was flagged a ton, but I recall getting PKed a ton on other planets on my Ranger, who I never flagged on. It has been a really long time and they changed the systems like 20 times, so it is hard to remember the nuances.

Edited by gerams76

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As always people take things to extremes.

 

Resource gathering is just one aspect of the game. Of course there will be other activities for PvP players to do apart from protect gatherers. And in some instances gatherers will work solo. Yes, the risk is higher but it goes back to the risk/reward aspects of the game/design.

 

I'm sure if pure crafters want to gather  their own resources they can do so. But this is a PvP game! If you're out gathering resources solo and you encounter a group of enemy players, chances are your going to die. 

 

However, if you want or need those resources, you will find a way.

Edited by Count_Dirkoff

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I hope there is an intricate farming system also! Where food is relevant and none of it is a waste to make. Something like Arkage's system but better since the labor system was crappy. Would love to transport with a wagon to sell the goods I make. :D

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As always people take things to extremes.
 
Resource gathering is just one aspect of the game. Of course there will be other activities for PvP players to do apart from protect gatherers. And in some instances gatherers will work solo. Yes, the risk is higher but it goes back to the risk/reward aspects of the game/design.
 
I'm sure if pure crafters want to gather  their own resources they can do so. But this is a PvP game! If you're out gathering resources solo and you encounter a group of enemy players, chances are your going to die. 
 
However, if you want or need those resources, you will find a way.

 

how does this harvesting system go with risk vs reward?

as far as i see, the best way to harvest is in big groups as its not even possible to get the best ressources alone.

so alone you have much higher risk and much less reward. thats not the way risk/reward is meant in most cases here...

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I see a whole lot more types of activities (or professions) in Crowfall than just those 3 or 4. Only a few will have multiple accounts imo. Most people will have to specialize if they want to be of importance.

Maybe I'm not understanding but won't most campaigns have a max heroes allowed to enter wouldn't it be counter productive to invite 3 players controlled by 1 person I might be wrong tho

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Maybe I'm not understanding but won't most campaigns have a max heroes allowed to enter wouldn't it be counter productive to invite 3 players controlled by 1 person I might be wrong tho

 

I agree.


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