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MiracleMax

MMORPG Update: Harvesting Reveal

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Does anyone have the runestone / tool relationship figured out?

 

Tools are summoned when you have a harvesting runestone.

 

Are the harvesting runes by tier?  "basic" rune = "basic" tool  (tier 1 rune = tier 1 tool, tier 2 = tier 2...)

 

Are the harvesting runes by type? (Ore rune, Stone rune, Wood, and Animal)

 

Ja',...I'm thinking its highly unlikely that one runestone summons multiple tier tools or are multi resource type. But maybe this is controlled by the skill tree?

 

Edit: talking out loud...

 

Quote: "We still have the concept of resource-specific harvesting tools"

Ok, I see its by type. So, Ore rune = pickaxe | Stone rune = hammer | Wood = axe | Animal = knife.

 

Quote: "We included item decay on the harvesting rune as core component of this system (we need it as a sink for our economy)"...snip..."it also allows us to compress the harvesting items more efficiently in the player’s inventory (with limited inventory space, no one is excited about carrying around five mining picks.)"

If its a tiered "tool" a.k.a rune, then we wouldn't really need to carry around 5 mining picks....as long as tier 5 harvests tier 4, 3, 2, 1...but I don't think thats the main point. More importantly is the decay....

 

Quote: "The basic tools are good against the first tier of resources, and the more advanced tools are needed for the higher tiers. Using a basic tool against a higher tier of resource will just cause that tool to deal very low damage (if any) to the node, and suffer a large amount of decay."

Alright, this part is a clue. If the runestones are by type (see quote 1), then maybe the tier is controlled by the skill tree?

Edited by Cordite

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If you look at the harvesting skill tree you will see the different paths for the resource types and the acquisition of the different skills for the use of higher tier runestone tools.

Edited by Count_Dirkoff

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Yeah, I looked at them (not in-game just the screen shots) and that seems to make the most sense. But now were talking about real time in the passive skill progression system to unlock tiers. I think I read that the first 80% of progression may go by much faster than the last 20% but even still, everyone is going to be stuck without the ability to harvest the higher tier resources for X amount of real time if that is true.

 

It also makes sense though, if, since there will be minimal recipes for the most part, that a crafter isn't going to have recipes for 30 different "harvesting" runestones vs. only 4.

 

Edit: That could also mean that early on (from launch until 3-4 mos.) to get tier 2 or possibly tier 3 mats...its pretty much a group only activity and tier 1 tools are going to be getting used up quickly on the higher tier nodes. Guess thats good for the crafters..lol.

Edited by Cordite

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Lets say ACE dumps the Group harvesting mechanic. Now you have to mine that rank 10 node (assuming your tools / runestone can make a dent in it) at a nice slow pace with reduced chance of a harvesting crit for that uber mat. So its going to take longer, less chance of getting that crit, and your haul is going to be even less.

 

I fail to see how it is an advantage to "not" group harvest? What harvester do you know that wants to bring home less? (Regardless of getting ganked or robbed)

 

Whats keeping harvesters from solo/group harvesting in a pvp safe EK zone?...Nothing, its their choice if they want to avoid the risk for less reward.

 

What you describe is the group harvesting system and what it does to solo-harvesters.

If ACE dumped that mechanic, you would just go somewhere, gather materials and bring them home. if you had more people with you, you would be safer and could carry more, but the speed per person would be the same.

In an ideal logic crafting, there would be a mine and the time you harvest increases the result you get. once you have enough, you go home.

have more people, then each of them has its own skilldependant speed. you can even call some to guard you, why not in a pvpgame. you will just have to pay them for that. THIS is risk vs reward. dont pay guards and have more of your loot OR pay guards to be safer with your loot.

 

going in EK is less risk for less reward, but it does not depend on solo or group harvesting. the groupharvesting has just no effect there.

 

having nodes randomly spawned somewhere is unlogic by default. ressources dont just spawn somewhere. they are somewhere for a reason. that is, why there are mines for ore and woods for lumber and such stuff.

 

imo, there should just be POI like mines and theyd just have one entrance and whoever guards that entrance can determine who goes in and who not. no guard there -> free for all gatherers. a mine would still have several caves, so it would not really be easy to find people inside. so if you want ressources, you fight for the entrance. you guard who is inside or you kill who comes out and loot his stuff.

if you are part of an alliance (which you should be), that alliance would have several POI under their control and there would be much more POI on the map than one alliance possibly could control, and to far ahead from another to be viable to even try.

there could still be very small random spawned ressources on the map. but the huge majority should come from POIs and it should not be needed for a single crafter/harvester to run around with several people just to gather ressources.

you would still better run in a group, but the guards would stand outside and look for enemies and do whatever they want outside, but the harvesters would do their harvesting and afterwards go back. with guards or without. the guards should just not speed up the harvesting. thats not what they are there for. its not what they learned, its not what they should be good for. and its not what they are supposed to (want to) do.

 

and those guards for POI could even be NPCs (call them like you want in Crowfall). NPCs can be killed and you can put yours there, if you want to overtake the mine. As long as its possible for those NPCs to win against players, they are useful guards. Still, if you come with a big group, you should win against them.

Putting ressources in form of NPCguards in front of your mine is again risk vs reward.

Reward is, that you are the only one that can enter. risk is, they might be killed and the ressources are wasted. make them strong enough to be worth the risk and its fine.

Edited by Gromschlog

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I'm not saying you're wrong Grom. I think a little bit may be getting lost in translation due to language differences.

 

I could see ACE using NPC's as you describe. In Shadowbane, players often looked for particular types of NPC guards to protect strongholds. Maybe guilds could set up a Guardshack near a resource spread. Or maybe an established keep exerts some amount of safe zone in a given area. Sure, I could see it working more by game mechanics than by player influence but I don't think ACE wants things to be so black & white. I believe they want players to be engaged-in/responsible for how things play out.

 

From my point of view, I see group harvesting as the way to increase your reward....while accepting the same amount of risk as a solo harvester would be facing in the exact same location.

 

Edit: Oh, I should also say that those NPC guard's were not invincible. They usually were first to be killed though when a bane was about to happen.

Edited by Cordite

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I really enjoyed this video. Knowing what the devs are trying to accomplish in a game design helps us tailor our feedback; and is overlooked a great deal in many dev posts in other games. 

 

One thing I didn't hear mentioned is Risk Mitigation. To Pick on EVE because it was mentioned in the video, the only areas mining parties exist is where risks can be sufficiently mitigated to turn a profit mining.  That could be the big blue donut of null or concord of high sec, but either way it is an important factor. One only has to look at how many mining groups are in low sec of EVE to see this reflected. No matter how many guards and players you place out in low, the attackers always have a large enough advantage that it becomes cost prohibitive to do so.

 

With the information I have read to date, I see Crowfall's harvesting falling into the pattern of little Risk mitigation other than sheer numbers. This will just set the gameplay of to kill 10 bring 20. I feel this will encourage stealth gameplay for harvesting not group gameplay. Stealth gameplay does fit the exploration style of play, and is not necessarily a bad thing; however I think you would find gated group nodes to be a frustration these players, not a boon. Same with any minigame, as it would block your screen when you are trying to watch your six.

 

If we truly want to foster group gameplay, I would recommend some sort of "workcamp"  that could be placed on the node and would allow traps, or weak walls to be placed around it. I am not suggesting a passive spawner that you forget and it defends itself; but something that creates a defensible position that prevents raiders from just bum rushing and slaughtering the guys busy wacking a node, giving the defending players a chance to repel the attack.

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I am just wondering why for example spruce is of a higher tier than oak, tin higher than iron and limestone higher than granite. Parts of this order just don't make sense to me. Something like Spruce -> (Ash <-> Birch) -> (Oak <-> Yew) would feel much better, i think.

 

Apart from that, nice news. I am eager to test the system. And Blair, you are a master of nested sentences, this text was a challenge to translate. But never mind - just saying. ;)


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I am just wondering why for example spruce is of a higher tier than oak, tin higher than iron and limestone higher than granite. Parts of this order just don't make sense to me. Something like Spruce -> (Ash <-> Birch) -> (Oak <-> Yew) would feel much better, i think.

 

Apart from that, nice news. I am eager to test the system. And Blair, you are a master of nested sentences, this text was a challenge to translate. But never mind - just saying. ;)

Hopefully different wood resources will be best for different things, like different metals/alloys are better for different things.

Traditionally:

Yew makes superior range bows.

Redwood is very rot (nature energy) resistant.

White Oak causes wounds that don't heal fast.

Balsa wood is very light.

Heart Pine makes great torches.

Rowan wood is prized for magic wands/staves (extra Mana regen?)

Etc.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Has there been any talk of encumbrance or not really? Aside from inventory space, meaning actual weight limits or gameplay costs? From the few playtests I've been able to  jump in, I know there's stamina / mana management for combat - but I'm curious if walking, running, swimming, carrying heavy loads, wearing heavy armor vs. light armor, using heavier weapons or carrying the extra weight of a shield, impacts stamina usage in anyway?

 

I could see it playing a role in the material type that Chancellor mentions above.

 

I just don't get the vibe that they are wanting it to require a ton of micro-management. Maybe blending some if it in, but mostly leaving the fun in the players hands instead of spreadsheets - if that makes sense.

 

Edit: And oh, I forgot that they did say stamina may come into play from the action of harvesting.

Edited by Cordite

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